Native American Lithic Pendant Rattlesnake Effigy

[jacobgosling]

Hi,

I recently purchased a Native American pendant (listed as a gorget) on ebay. I knew going in that the artifact could be faked or repro, but there was enough of the genuine about it that I decided to acquire it. At worst I've purchased a very well crafted fake and an attractive decorative piece.

Is there anyone here with some knowledge or experience with the subject of Native artifacts who might have an opinion on this piece? Authentic | Possibly Authentic | Fake

Seller's Picture included.

Thanks!
Jacob

 

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[jacobgosling]

*Sorry for the late reply.

CC: antmike915

Some people have more money than common sense!...lol

Best regards,

JG

 

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[jacobgosling]

CC: gunsil

Indeed! ebay is a den of thieves. Fortunately, I've learned to be more patient and exercise a greater degree of caution before hitting the 'buy now' or 'bid' button since acquiring my "priceless" Native American artifact and the peace pipe...lol I haven't been fleeced since!

Oh, would you guys like to see my "priceless" Peace Pipe?...lol

As far as colonial and Rev pieces, I have established a relationship with a number of reputable sellers and buy mostly from them. These days, if something looks too good to be true, I leave it on the shelf.

Best regards,

JG

 

[jacobgosling]

Let’s see a head on pictures of the hole with light behind it? In the first picture the hole looks to be done with a drill. Most authentic drilled pieces the hole is conical from both sides.

*Sorry for the late response. Here are a few Hi-Res closeups of the eye. There appears to be a residue of organic (maybe cordage) material lining the interior of the eye.





Best regards,

JG

 

[tomclark]

the lines do not have any patina. freshie

 

[dognose]

Just going to throw this out there --- I think I recall seeing this item posted here a long time ago. Maybe by the account Sunnyside or mogi.


I recall the images and the interesting combo of a celt like bit area with a groove similar to what would have been made with a a grinding wheel.

 

[Tdog]

I'll throw this out there too... Those drilled holes must not be as smooth as expected because there's a lot of debris/dust collected in the neck of the biconical holes.

 

[jacobgosling]

Hi,

The debris lining the eye of this pendant does not appear to be dust. It looks like the remnant of organic twine or string. Perhaps an added touch by the faker to add authenticity to the forgery?

I still haven't given up on this dud. I cling to the hope that this gorget has a 5% chance of being real. But the percentage of my expectations and hope are dropping by the minute...lol

Best regards,

JG

 

[ironhorse]

one more kick...if it had ever been worn as a pendant there would be wear in the drilled hole from cord or whatever..
.or it had never been worn or used
I just get a bad vibe about stuff like that or I just dont want to be a sucker

 

[jacobgosling]

Yes. There is little chance in the near future that I would embarrass myself by gifting this "priceless" relic to a museum...lol As of now, it's the most expensive soap stone paperweight in the State of New Jersey...lol

 

[Rege-PA]

The only items I truly wonder about are the ones I did not purchase because I talked myself out of them and in most cases would have been not to regretful to find out that they are not what I perceived them to be. But there is always that "what if" in the back of my mind.

 

[jacobgosling]

I wouldn't blow 10k on a possibly dodgy item. But I'm willing to spend a few hundred on a 'what if?' Sometimes it pays off, and I end up with a very desirable item. Sometimes I'm suckered with a rock someone chiseled into a Native American gorget on their work table in the garage...lol I still retain a 5% hope it's real. But hope springs eternal.

 

[H.P.]

It looks like it was made with a Dremel tool,, a common quick and easy method,imo.

 

[jacobgosling]

I suspect the seller purchased this gorget for 5 dollars at a Swap Meet, and then sat on it until a sucker with fat pockets fell into his trap...lol

 

[Tnmountains]

You can see the chatter marks on the back of it in the groove. I get those often when forging out a knife and then trying to sand it smooth. They are hard to get out and sometimes you just leave them like they did here. Never seen an engraved celt of greenstone.
E-bay is a mess. Some guys are digging up a lot of my sites and selling the stuff on e-bay. They just say Alabama. I surface hunt but they are digging hard and now they are picking up all the broken pottery of any size. I do hope to catch them and confront them. Maybe they will see my post here,,,,

 

[jacobgosling]

CC: tnmountains

I've only been on ebay about six months. In the beginning, I let my enthusiasm get the better of my best judgement. I'm a quick learner, and I've grown cautious and patient. I do my research before hitting that 'buy now' or 'bid' button.

ebay really is a Wild West sort of atmosphere for the buyer, where Caviat Emptor rings true. ebay doesn't seem to care if sellers are ripping off buyers, so long as they get their cut. Both buyer and seller seem terrified to leave negative feedback. 40% of sellers leave me no feedback, and I leave no feedback for sellers who don't leave feedback for me. Once I pay for the item, I have met my obligation, and the ball's in the seller's court to leave feedback. The buyer should never go first.

I have a low opinion of relic hunters who care nothing about an item's historic value, and are only out to make a quick buck by looting a site. I hope you resolve your problem to your satisfaction.

The people who loot Native American artifacts and leave behind a trail of wreckage and destruction are the worst!

JG

 

[Jeff H]

Just going to throw this out there --- I think I recall seeing this item posted here a long time ago. Maybe by the account Sunnyside or mogi.


I recall the images and the interesting combo of a celt like bit area with a groove similar to what would have been made with a a grinding wheel.

I almost miss not having Mogi around. He made trolling an art form.

 

[jacobgosling]

Just going to throw this out there --- I think I recall seeing this item posted here a long time ago. Maybe by the account Sunnyside or mogi.

I almost miss not having Mogi around. He made trolling an art form.

This isn't a troll or a hoax. I really won this 'thing' in an auction three or four months ago. It stops with me. I don't have it in me to pass this on to another sucker...lol

JG

 

[Tnmountains]

CC: tnmountains

I've only been on ebay about six months. In the beginning, I let my enthusiasm get the better of my best judgement. I'm a quick learner, and I've grown cautious and patient. I do my research before hitting that 'buy now' or 'bid' button.

ebay really is a Wild West sort of atmosphere for the buyer, where Caviat Emptor rings true. ebay doesn't seem to care if sellers are ripping off buyers, so long as they get their cut. Both buyer and seller seem terrified to leave negative feedback. 40% of sellers leave me no feedback, and I leave no feedback for sellers who don't leave feedback for me. Once I pay for the item, I have met my obligation, and the ball's in the seller's court to leave feedback. The buyer should never go first.

I have a low opinion of relic hunters who care nothing about an item's historic value, and are only out to make a quick buck by looting a site. I hope you resolve your problem to your satisfaction.

The people who loot Native American artifacts and leave behind a trail of wreckage and destruction are the worst!

JG

Things always work out in the end. E-Bay is about the worst for artifacts but there are other auctions out there and am sure some members can mention a few reputable ones for good artifacts. The only time I have bought was years ago when Uniface and I would watch a couple on e-bay and bid on them to see if they were real. They were not and they are now in a planter out in the yard. I know a fantastic surface hunter that has found 20x what I have and he has sold every piece. Very knowledgable about everything. He has hunted 40 years hard. To each there own is my motto. I dig shelters with permission. Some dig mounds with out permission. Those are the ones I do not care to associate with.
Good luck in all your hunts.

 

[Jeff H]

This isn't a troll or a hoax. I really won this 'thing' in an auction three or four months ago. It stops with me. I don't have it in me to pass this on to another sucker...lol

JG

Jacob, no way was I implying this was a troll. A poster mentioned Mogi and I commented on that. If TNet hasn't deleted his posts, it's worth checking them out. They were entertaining. Some of the stuff he was claiming were finds of his was absurd.

 

[jacobgosling]

CC: Jeff H

Jacob, no way was I implying this was a troll. A poster mentioned Mogi and I commented on that. If TNet hasn't deleted his posts, it's worth checking them out. They were entertaining. Some of the stuff he was claiming were finds of his was absurd.

Mogi must have made an impression on the TN Administrators, because I seem to recall that posting "fake discoveries" is a violation in the terms of service here...lol

I have a wicked sense of humour. Mogi sounds like a character I'd enjoy. Was he claiming to have discovered King Tut's golden death mask or something?

Best regards,

JG