Native American Lithic Pendant Rattlesnake Effigy

jacobgosling

Full Member
Jun 4, 2020
121
123
Primary Interest:
Other
Hi,

I recently purchased a Native American pendant (listed as a gorget) on ebay. I knew going in that the artifact could be faked or repro, but there was enough of the genuine about it that I decided to acquire it. At worst I've purchased a very well crafted fake and an attractive decorative piece.

Is there anyone here with some knowledge or experience with the subject of Native artifacts who might have an opinion on this piece? Authentic | Possibly Authentic | Fake

Seller's Picture included.

Thanks!
Jacob

1.jpg
 

Upvote 0

Tdog

Silver Member
May 30, 2019
2,856
5,213
East Central Alabama
Primary Interest:
Relic Hunting
The drilled hole may offer a clue. Need close-up pics of both sides of hole at different angles. Just an observation but seems strange that the hole would be right through the snake. BTW, welcome.
 

OP
OP
J

jacobgosling

Full Member
Jun 4, 2020
121
123
Primary Interest:
Other
Thank you very much for the expedient reply and welcome!

Here are some closeups of the holes. Front and back. If genuine, I believe the placement of the hole would be chosen in deference to balancing the object when worn around the neck.

Regards,

Jacob
6.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

5.jpg
 

smokeythecat

Gold Member
Nov 22, 2012
20,684
40,651
Maryland
🥇 Banner finds
10
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
1
Detector(s) used
XP Deus II
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
I saw that when it was on Ebay also but declined to bid on it. The hole did not look correct to me. Also, the back of it has been planed/shaved/gouged to reduce the thickness.

The lines on the carving are too even. After noticing these details, like I say, I declined to place a bid. I'd say about half the artifacts on Ebay are "new". It's figuring out which half is the problem.
 

smokeythecat

Gold Member
Nov 22, 2012
20,684
40,651
Maryland
🥇 Banner finds
10
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
1
Detector(s) used
XP Deus II
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
I am certainly no expert, some of the stuff out there looks really good.
 

OP
OP
J

jacobgosling

Full Member
Jun 4, 2020
121
123
Primary Interest:
Other
As I said, I knew going in the item could be faked or repro. I didn't pay $10,000 for it, so I'll be satisfied to have a nice decorative piece. I'm new to ebay, but not naive. It isn't too difficult to spot the genuine Revolutionary War, Colonial and Native American items. It's not easy to fake authentic age and wear. And provenance is very important. If an Indian artifact came from a collection assembled in 1922, there's probably a better chance it's real.

There's something about my snake pendant that makes me reluctant to entirely dismiss the possibility of authenticity. I'll have a hands-on expert examine it and maybe perform some tests. Just to satisfy my own curiosity as to what it actually is: Native American or 'Made in China'.

But smokeythecat won't you be green with envy when the Antiques Roadshow guy tell me I possess the finest example of a late Hopewell Snake Effigy Pendant he's ever seen in 24 seasons of Antiques Roadshow, and estimates the value between $800,000 and 1.5 million!

And are you suggesting the nail from Jesus' cross that I paid 10 Rubles for isn't real? How dare you!

I'll have lots of other stuff to share on the forum. Some of it definitely real.

Kind regards,
Jacob
 

Last edited:

smokeythecat

Gold Member
Nov 22, 2012
20,684
40,651
Maryland
🥇 Banner finds
10
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
1
Detector(s) used
XP Deus II
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Nope, won't turn green. I have everything else out there...
 

Relicgrubber

Silver Member
Nov 3, 2018
2,664
5,669
Deep East Texas
Detector(s) used
O.G. XP DEUS
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Let’s see a head on pictures of the hole with light behind it? In the first picture the hole looks to be done with a drill. Most authentic drilled pieces the hole is conical from both sides.
 

Tnmountains

Super Moderator
Staff member
Jan 27, 2009
18,701
11,665
South East Tennessee on Ga, Ala line
🥇 Banner finds
1
Detector(s) used
Tesoro Conquistador freq shift
Fisher F75
Garrett AT-Pro
Garet carrot
Neodymium magnets
5' Probe
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
If you have a microscope or fine loop look at the surface for sanding marks or score marks. My experience with polished stone is they would sand in one direction and then the other. Its amazing when you see it on a piece. Also the holes were usually drilled with a reed full of sand as an abrasive and you will see the step down marks in the hole.
I have several pics of dug rattlesnake shell gorgets I have not seen one on stone like that. Is that greenstone?
Hope it is real.
 

antmike915

Silver Member
Apr 20, 2020
2,777
5,612
SW Georgia
Primary Interest:
Relic Hunting
Hi,

I recently purchased a Native American pendant (listed as a gorget) on ebay. I knew going in that the artifact could be faked or repro, but there was enough of the genuine about it that I decided to acquire it. At worst I've purchased a very well crafted fake and an attractive decorative piece.

Is there anyone here with some knowledge or experience with the subject of Native artifacts who might have an opinion on this piece? Authentic | Possibly Authentic | Fake

Seller's Picture included.

Thanks!
Jacob

View attachment 1838884

Braver than me, I wouldn't take the risk.
 

joshuaream

Silver Member
Jun 25, 2009
3,170
4,481
Florida & Hong Kong
Since you asked for opinions, I'd guess it's not very old. The style is wrong, the workmanship is wrong, the material looks wrong; I can't really find one thing that's right about the piece.

There were a couple more pictures on the auction that show some redflags. The first one is the side profile, it looks like someone was trying to make a celt. You don't see many celts reworked into gorgets. The second one shows what looks like modern grinder work to me.

gorget1.jpg gorget2.jpg
 

IMAUDIGGER

Silver Member
Mar 16, 2016
3,400
5,194
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Why would someone want to hang something that heavy around their neck?

I would think some time would be spend thinning it out quite a bit more to lighten the weight.
 

Toecutter

Bronze Member
Nov 30, 2018
2,433
7,443
🥇 Banner finds
1
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
1
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Why would someone want to hang something that heavy around their neck?

I would think some time would be spend thinning it out quite a bit more to lighten the weight.

Same impression I got...
 

DaveSmith

Full Member
May 26, 2020
176
215
western nc.....foothills
Detector(s) used
none
Primary Interest:
Relic Hunting
I'm no stone expert, but have done considerable welding and grinding and the second picture on the right at the most narrow end of the scooped out portion looks just like the marks a grinding disc makes.
 

monsterrack

Silver Member
Apr 15, 2013
4,419
5,814
Southwest Mississippi
Detector(s) used
Garrett, and Whites
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
1st as Davesmith said there are modern tool marks in the scooped out spot. 2nd like Joshua said the shape and form is wrong. 3rd the lines are all the same width and you don't get that with stone and last the holes are not made right for either stone or cane drilled. JMO
 

gunsil

Silver Member
Dec 27, 2012
3,864
6,207
lower hudson valley, N.Y.
Detector(s) used
safari, ATPro, infinium, old Garrett BFO, Excal, Nox 800
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Ebay is surely the faker's friend!! Probably every category on the bay has fakes just waiting to take somebody for a ride.
 

A2coins

Gold Member
Dec 20, 2015
33,807
42,606
Ann Arbor
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
3
Detector(s) used
Equinox 800
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Also a ton of stuff people actually think are real. This is not a remark related to the OP I hope you piece is authentic You could take it to a professional or to a University or the like and have it looked at nothing better than having it in hand to look at up close.......Tommy
 

DaveSmith

Full Member
May 26, 2020
176
215
western nc.....foothills
Detector(s) used
none
Primary Interest:
Relic Hunting
And I thought this weekend I should have said the same as Tommy, there's nothing like holding it in your hand. Pictures can be good, but sometime they just don't show it as it really is.
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Top