We're Devils Just ask them.

[uniface]

Posted without comment

The term looter is defined as any person who commits the act of looting for artifacts in a fieldwork context. Once again, by definition, a looter is any artifact hunter who is not a qualified professional archaeologist—or is an ordinary person operating without training in field archaeology or operating outside of supervision by a professional archaeologist.

I know the key question that is uppermost on your mind after reading those two definitions, so here it is:


Do you mean to tell me that if I am a citizen of Tennessee, I call up my friend Ned Brooks, he gives me written permission to surface hunt or dig for artifacts at an archaeological site on his land—with me in 100 percent compliance with Tennessee cultural resources law and human burial laws—and I go surface hunting or digging at Ned’s place—you professional archaeologists officially define me as a looter?


Yes. You betcha!!! That is absolutely correct!!! I have been involved in American archaeology (on and off—one way or another) for the past 48 years. That was the everyday convention among professional archaeologists, archaeology graduate students, and archaeology undergraduate students throughout my eight years in the Department of Anthropology at The University of Tennessee, Knoxville (UTK). That is how the terms looting and looter were used—every day—in our formal academic discussions. They were used that way in casual archaeological discussions over a beer at a local bar on Friday nights. They were used that way over a brown bag lunch, and they were used that way in the Chevy Suburban on the long drive home from a day of archaeological fieldwork. I have never heard the terms looting or looter used any other way or by any other definition—-whatsoever—by any other archaeologist in the United States across my 48 years of experience.


I have seen a few of the discussions about this subject among artifact collectors at various on-line collector venues. I have read the comments where collectors swear up one side and down the other that they cannot possibly be defined as a looter because they never illegally hunt, dig, or swish around for artifacts on government land or under government waters. They can talk all they want to about it—talk themselves blue in the face if they like—twist it around however they like—but no matter how much they talk or twist—if they are legally surface hunting in a field or legally digging somewhere for artifacts to take home—without professional field training or supervision—the professional archaeology community in the United States officially defines them as looters.

https://contextintn.wordpress.com/2...llectors-pose-to-professional-archaeologists/

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[uniface]

PS I have no idea where the * came from in the title & am unable to delete it.

re. that, a re-run from years past :

The Archaeological Soviet
(to the tune of "The Wabash Cannonball")


Up in Indiana there's a lot of stuff been found
By folks who walk around there with their eyes upon the ground --
On river banks, construction sites and any place that's ploughed
But these cannot be published on -- that's simply not allowed.


"Those things were found by vandals who loot 'antiquities' !
All you need to know is that they don't have PhDs.
Better that the record should ignore their grubby finds
Than contraband from trailer trash contaminate our minds.


At the ivory tower in the city on the hill
You'd think they'd be receptive there, but boy -- if looks could kill !
'Specially when they're tools too old to fit their current scheme --
That aren't supposed to be there and can only be a dream.

"There's no way to fight us, Bubba, our side always wins
(Oh, by the way -- donating those absolves you of your sins !)
We cannot be too careful to preserve our purity --
We are the moral guardians of archaeology !


"So take your damned Levallois stuff back home with you and weep
Consigned to purgatory where the outer darkness deep
Enfolds it like a burial shroud in deep obscurity
Until the passing years efface its very memory."

 

[antmike915]

Yeah, there's no need to comment.

 

[MosesOfTheSouth]

thanks uni.

 

[sandchip]

Thanks for the view from the ivory tower. I'm surprised that those folks don't drown when it rains.

 

[justonemore]

Feel better now? That was productive.

 

[ToddsPoint]

You can't loot what you legally own. Private property is the problem the ivory tower pro's have. They want everything under the ground to be their property. Sorry, but you have millions of acres of gov't ground to dig. Leave us alone. Gary

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Uniface, I removed the star from the title.

 

[Charl]

Posted without comment




https://contextintn.wordpress.com/2...llectors-pose-to-professional-archaeologists/

The archaeologist’s name is Tracy Brown. He was a member at arrowheads dot com for awhile. He was working with another archaeologist to try and develop a rapprochement between collectors and professional archaeologists. He himself attempted to establish a more harmonious relationship on both arrowheads dot com and arrowheadology. I don’t know if he was thrown off ‘ology, or just left. On arrowheads dot com, I liked the guy, and I believed him. In other words, what he wrote above is something he did not himself believe. But, several senior members of the site simply did not trust him, and when he requested info on how to contact a certain Tenn. collector, for the purpose of officially recording a Benton cache that had been recovered in Tenn., the **** really hit the fan. Things got very heated, and he was banned when he launched into a personal attack against a senior member who was telling him he could never in good conscience provide that contact info. We did have one member from Tenn. who lived near Brown, and got along well with him. As I said, I thought he was making an honest effort at rapprochement between the two sides.

These were his final words to us:

“I have one last thing to say before I go. Up until yesterday, I did sincerely have an interest and hope that professional archaeologists in general and artifact collectors in general could find a way to become closer and collaborate on projects. I worked on that for quite a while and nothing much came of it. It is clear to me that professional archaeologists and artifact collectors hate each other---and neither side has any real interest in bringing that hatred to an end. The national project, through the Society for American Archaeology, was trying to bring the too sides together. I had high hopes for it. Yesterday, I wrote to Dr. Bonnie Pitblado and told her that I had lost hope as a result of what happened here and that I was finished with my participation in it and support for it. I'm out!!!!“
———————————————
As I recall, he wanted a program at a meeting of the Society for American Archaeology to be presented on how to cool the acrimony between pros and collectors. That is what he is talking about in the above statement. He lost all hope at rapprochement. I would say that the statement he wrote on his blog, and which uni quoted, did not reflect his own opinion of collectors, and our one member who lived near, and knew Brown also felt he was a decent guy and honestly hoped to bridge the gap.

 

[uniface]

Thank You, THunter.

 

[releventchair]

Defending justification of profession includes insulting potential competition. More than one field of study involved in that...

Who is qualified to break the sanctity of a grave? A studied professional with no blood tie?
Be it my kin , anyone but myself or family will be considered a looter.
And as far as professionals doing so with unrelated folks graves or resting places , justify away. I don't agree that because you are studied that it matters more or less than if I were doing so. An ethical principle violated by pro's in the name of science , ends credibility for all in their field.
So there's that....

 

[Kray Gelder]

Hey, keep finding and collecting! The greatest act of looting, was claiming the planet to themselves, so when they do get around to it, if ever, it will end up in a box, in storage.

 

[DizzyDigger]

I have little patience for the arrogance of academia.

 

[H.P.]

Whew! I don’t know about you but I’m exhausted, I’m gonna take a nap.

 

[TxAg]

I suppose there are purists in every hobby or profession. I’d like to think I could learn something from just about anybody. I am so much of a NA artifacts newbie even late in life (63 years), I still have much to learn. But, I must say I was taken aback by the definition of looting and looter quoted in the original post. It rubbed me the wrong way. I relate those words to violent destruction of and stealing of property that belongs to others. My rancher friend gives me permission to hunt his land in exchange for photos of my finds, a few artifacts for his small collection, and my solemn word that I will not share his identity or location with anyone, especially professional archeologists! Maybe he knows what he’s talking about....

 

[dts52]

I guess that makes me both DEPLORABLE and a LOOTER. Fortunately, I’m too old and too cranky to give a s#/t anymore.
dts

 

[DizzyDigger]

Matt Damon also has no tolerance for the arrogance of academia.

Good part starts about 40 seconds in..

 

[sandchip]

I have little patience for the arrogance of academia.

Which sadly, is in no way limited to the field of archaeology.

 

[uniface]

If you set out to list characteristics that distinguish the mentality of cult members from that of rational people, but that don't apply just as well to academe, you're in for a long night.

Belief-based "thinking" is not thinking.

No matter how obvious this is, and how often you point it out, people still don't get it.

 

[Huzzah!]

OH BOO-HOO! Guess ole Huzzah is a born looter! Kiss my arrowhead!