Artifakes

[Cannonman17]

I thought this link http://www.theaaca.com/fakes.htm might be useful to some. The hinge fracture information is very good and it's much easier to post a link that try to explain it myself. Keep in mind that this is not the final word on the subject though, there are more things to look for when telling artifacts from artifakes. Look at what type of material the point is made from and where it was supposedly found. Is there a history to the point, a record of when, who, and where. What does the patina look like? Is the clovis you're looking at have sharp scar ridges but was supposedly found in a river bottom? Much of it is just from experience and a little common sense. When you go to an antique store and find a display of "authentic artifacts" and all of them are G-10 in quality, all are super colorful, and virtually every major "key" type is represented.... well, there's a sucker born every minute. Now if in that same display are one or two other types made from another material (also perfect examples) what do you suppose the chances are that these are real? Guilty by association is right. And this mythical situation is based on a bad dealer/fake.... the people who are really flooding the market with fake cr@p are MUCH better.. they have refined their techniques... they have refined their fake patina abilities, refined the flaking techniques, etc...
Don't get me wrong here, buying artifacts is still a fine way to add to a collection it's just that one needs to be so much more careful than you had to even twenty years ago. I will buy an odd piece here and there... often times from somebody I know though, from an area I'm familiar with, from a material that fits the area, and of a type I commonly find (or at least know come from this area). Buying without those things in place is risky to say the least.
I know more of you have more tips to add to this so come on Atlantis, Matt, the rest of you- lets share what we've learned.

 

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[d2]

You, more or less, have said it all. I havent checked out the link yet but will in a few. I have never bought a point, I reblued a couple of shotguns once for a pot, but I knew where it came from and the person that found it, I missed it by about 3 feet, If it looks to good to be true it probably is. Of the 2 thousand points that we have here at home I dont imagine there is more than 20 G10's in the lot. A case full of G10's is suspect, to me, from the begining and makes me wonder...d2

 

[Atlantis0077]

Morning,

Amen to that D2. A very small percentage of points you find will be perfect. Seems there is always a chip here or a missing ear there. Another thing that puts up a red flag for me on a collection is color....if I see a board that every point is made from the same type and color of stone it is suspect to me. Not always true in other parts of the country, but here that is 100%. If you find 25 points here, chances are you will have an array of color and stone type, not to mention point type.

The art of the artifakers continues to improve and it is getting to where its nearly impossible for the average collector to distinguish the ancient from the 'authentic.' Personally I dont spend much on points, normally if I buy anything at all its from folks that I dig with and know well. Then we normally just swap out for stuff or sell at prices much less than the book $$.

I dont recommend purchasing from Ebay at all, and as has been said by many, a certificate of authenticity is not a 100% guarantee your point is ancient. It makes you feel better and will increase the asking price in many instances, but still only an opinion.
Another thing you might consider. Keep anything your purchase separate. It may well be perfectly authentic, but I feel better keeping what I find and what finds me segregated. That way there is no possibility of diluting my pure collection. Memory fades, right now you can remember you bought that frame of points from Joe Blow, but 10 years from now you may not be so sure.

Common sense is your best tool. If you see a point for sale that looks too good to be true, it probably is. I think it was PT Barnum who said it was very difficult to swindle a person who didnt think he was swindling you.

Happy Hunting

Atlantis

 

[Neanderthal]

Here's just a quick list of misconceptions about point authenticity.

1. "It came from an old well known collection, it has to be real" - Not true at all. In fact, it's rare anymore to see an old collection that is pure. It was commonplace, an accepted occurance, to rechip or alter a point to make it more appealing in earlier years than it is now.
Sometimes it happens in good faith. Imagine a collectors spouse unknowingly buys them a fake arrowhead for a special occasion, generally that person will keep that arrowhead and never let them know it's fake and display it proudly to save their feelings. I examine a LOT of collections and it's rare to see any that are pure.

2. "I found it myself, so I know it's real" - Not always true. "Salting" has become a very common occurance, unfortunately. Don't think you're immune to it, you're not. I know of several instances where it has occured in seemingly impossible situations. A couple of years ago a friend found some great looking banners on his familys land, only to find out later that they were planted, salted. There was a guy around here that was salting locations with obsidian points, kids were bringing them to me left and right, proud of their finds. My favorite one is where I personally witnessed a Snyders point dug from over 4' under ground...and it was coated with gold paint. The point was 100% authentic under the paint, but covered thickly in gold paint. This happened right by a railway berm and we assume a railway worked found it when the put in the tracks (1950's), painted it for some unknown reason and then discarded it. There was a Danish Dagger (modern) found on the Arkansas River here in recent years, several modern "Texas" points found on a local lake at one location, etc. Don't think you're immune to it -
You're not.

3. "I got it from so-and-so and he knows flint, it's got to be good" - Umm, no. Just because you get it from a good source, a good person who knows their flint..don't assume that it's 100% good. Check your artifacts and familiarize yourself with what to look for. Sometimes things slip through unnoticed and not all artifacts are checked thoroughly, etc. Everyone makes mistakes (except my mother-in-law) and it's not always intentional. Your best bet to help insure the authenticity of your collection is to educate yourself. Familiarize yourself with what to look for, don't rely on someone else to do it for you. They don't have to live with your collection - you do!

4. "He uses a microscope, so he knows fakes!" - Not hardly. Just because you have tools doesn't know you know how to use them properly. Overstreet guide & a microscope seem to make everyone an instant expert nowadays..ugggh. While getting certain equipment can help aid you in spotting fakes, nothing beats knowledge..period.

5. "A loupe is just as good as a scope" - No. When you use a loupe you aren't getting a full dimensional view of the artifact. You can only get depth perception and full 3d image with the use of two eyes, not one.

6. "It has to be old, look at all of the gunk!" - You're kidding, right? The first thing you should do when you get an artifact is to clean it. Use warm water and clean it everywhere. Perino used to use a mixture of vinegar and water to clean points alot of the time, I recommend just water. You won't wash off valid "patina", but will wash off dirt that could be hiding important information underneath. Wash your point, let dry on a towel and then examine it thoroughly. If all of your previous "deposits" have come off with plain water, it could be cause for concern. Your flint has been laying in the ground for thousands of years getting exposed to water, oxidation, various chemicals and a plethora of minerals...do you really think some tapwater is going to be more harsh than mother nature?

7. "Turtles make good hockey pucks" - Ok, this one is true.

8. "I know it's good, It has a COA" - Not hardly. As I stated in another post, COA's often mean very little. They are an opinion of a person and that doesn't always mean the person knows apples from adam when it comes to authenticity. Unfortunately, there is no set criteria or standard for being an authenticator. They are everywhere (well over 50 at my last count) and seem to be popping up daily. You too could be an authenticator! All you need is a printer to make some pretty papers and to advertise that you are now an authenticator. Most of those papers belong in a bathroom stall, along with the artifacts pictured on them. Your best bet is to educate yourself. Yup, that's about it.

9. Sorry, out of time..may write more later.

 

[pickaway]

Nice info,I have only bought 4pieces & 1 turned out to be a no brainer fake it was my fault but in the end it worked out i got the piece free thru fraud protection on CC.I have found some flint ridge that doesnt get the mineral deposits on it, it patinates but some reason doesnt get the little round black deposits i found a piece today at about a foot down,wierd.

 

[bean man]

I guess that's the harsh reality of collecting Indian artifacts. One guestion, if that's true, isn't the buying and selling of artifacts, just a big con game?

 

[rocky]

Good evening all. I am new on TNET and primarily lurk, but this is one of my favorite subjects so I am jumping in.

The thread contains some very good advice from all. I have bought many relics over the years and any of you who have know that you bought your education on fakes, and it did not come cheap. That is if you truly care about authenticity. It takes a lot of self discipline to allow common sense to override temptation when a deal seems to have great potential. And as time goes by you will continue to learn and screen your collection. It can be tough to go back years later and pull out a piece that you no longer have 100% confidence in, and it may be something very slight.

How to get educated: First decide what you want to attempt to buy and why. Get to know other collectors who have successfully done it and learn from them. Look at as many relics as you can, and be patient - you will never learn it all. Listen to all authenticators with a heavy dose of skepticism; learn to be your own authenticator - after all you have to be happy with it. Study materials that you expect your relics to be made of. Learn to recognize the proper mineral deposits, soil polish, and other forms of patina for your stone types. This will exist on chips, broken relics, crude relics and even gravel just the same as a G-10. Microscopes are helpful and fun, but can mislead you - it's just one aspect to consider. I have seen many points that I know are reproduction that have nice patina under a microscope, but the material, design, and flaking are wrong. Learn what the prehistoric workmanship looks like for particular types. It is generally flaked much more efficiently than reproductions and with function driving the design.

Do not expect to find 'deals' they are as rare as G-10 relics. In fact most people are over educated these days and believe they might retire from selling their collection. Do expect to encounter 'cons'. They are better at finding you than vice-versa. You can learn to avoid that also. And watch out for the 'once in a lifetime deal'. One old time collector advised that you will never find a hobby with so many 'once in a lifetime deals'.

If you intend to sell and get your money back expect to have a hard time. Unless you only buy the premium G-10s which will always increase in value. Go to shows.

All that being said - good luck and have fun - it is a world of fun, but still not as fun as picking it up off the ground.

Rocky

 

[Billco]

Based on my experience with collectibles, the biggest reason people get suckered into buying fakes of all kinds is that they want a bargain and are willing to risk losing money for the possibility of coming out on the good side of a deal. I think with little risk one could build up a collection of the quality that makes up most "found" artifact collections. Wouldn't cost a lot of money either, probably a lot less than in time and expense than it would take to find them. Most people want better than they usually find, but they want it for less than its worth.

If it is advertised to the general public and the selling price looks to good to be true, it probably is and you were the unfortunate person who bought it.

That said, however, if the general public doesn't see it because the seller either doesn't know how to sell it or doesn't know what he's got, you can sometimes get quality for pennies on the dollar. Some even make a living doing just that. The average person has never heard of gorget or banner stone and might have heard of paleo, but couldn't identify an artifact as one. Yet, no doubt, people who haven't a clue list them on eBay with a low starting bid with photos all the time, most probably going unnoticed. I don't plan on buying artifacts, but I've bought a ton of other collectibles and this is the kind of seller I look for. Its a calculated risk and not for everybody, but the rewards can be huge.

 

[Cannonman17]

Matt, Rocky, and others, you raise some GREAT points! (no pun intended) Good food for thought for all in the hobby.

Matt- you mention salting, yeah... so true. I feel terrible about this but I will confess it here for the first time. When I was about 15 or 16 I was at my cousin's house in Washington County Wisconsin and walking an old field with tons of flaking debatage and broke points... as we got farther away the things thinned out but I didn't want to miss out on something and wanted to walk the entire field. By the time we got to the far end things were slim to none and I got bored. I remember finding a large round spaul on the far end and as we turned around to head back towards the good area I picked up a hammer stone and started to flake out a celt... well, it turned out pretty good and when we got to the hot zone and my cousin yelled out "found one!" I dropped it and ran over to him... yeah... it's still in that field. While this isn't "salting" in the same terms as what you mentioned it's not too far off.. and could happen anywhere.

I also remember an older fellow in my area who collected arrowheads and often would take people with him, kids in particular.. the more the merrier was his motto... it wasn't until many years later that I realized I had "found" more points while hunting with him, made from materials I had never seen before, than I ever did at any other time! I know now that he made sure everybody found something. ( he was one hell of a guy by the way and only meant well)

Rocky- you are very right too.... the fakers are getting really good at faking the patina... it might even look good under a microscope (assuming you know what to look for in the first place) but the style and/or material could be way off for the type.. this has got to be the sign of an advanced collector.. I fear that many who spend their money on artifacts don't have that level of knowledge.

Billco- " I think with little risk one could build up a collection of the quality that makes up most "found" artifact collections. Wouldn't cost a lot of money either, probably a lot less than in time and expense than it would take to find them. Most people want better than they usually find, but they want it for less than its worth." I think this is a very important point to make here. Not saying that buying any and all artifacts is going to burn you... the risk is directly proportional to the quality of the artifact.

Bean- I don't think that buying/selling artifacts is all just one big con game as you mentioned but boy... I do believe there are a lot of them out there. I think it really does boil down to be the old saying.. if it looks too good to be true it probably is.

I also think that any die hard collector who really has an interest in the who, when, and where, of the hobby is still relatively safe in buying "field grade" pieces. It's when you take the next step or two, start talking about grades and real serious about the various typologies that you want to add to your G-9 - 10 collection where you take the biggest risk.

Thanks d2, Atlantis0077, Matt R, Pickaway, Bean man, Rocky, and Billco because I think it's this type of discussion that can be a great help to collectors in this hobby, specially when just starting out!

 

[lostlake88]

I will be short and sweet and hopefully to the point. The AACA is a small disorganized group of the types of folk that you wouldn't introduce to your grandma. These people are the types that buy their first Porshe and send in there scripted opinions to the editor of Car and Driver, "AKA know it alls". They will help the novice collector in many ways, including how to decipher the real from the good, I guess. My best advice is to learn on your own. I can honestly say it takes about 7 years of heavy collecting to pick the good from the bad at just a glance. When I shop around on Ebay and I see AACA, I pass quickly. Most are high priority collectors that collect the good stuff and pass the field grade, just for your information. Happy Hunting!