Thunderbird Effigy...Real or Myth?
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rock
Gold Member
Can we see it in natural light both sides? Welcome MG to the forum
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quito
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I am thinking this is worth a new thread too.
relic lover
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I don't know why people are so adamant that no native ever decided to make a Thunderbird in Flint ever. Are they trying to say that an example of everything ever made has definitely already been found? Even if a native looked at a broken tip and decided it looked kind of like a Thunderbird and finished it off to look more like one that could easily be how could get started
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Charl
Silver Member
The subject has come up often, on all the artifact forums, over the years. This earlier thread we are currently posting to is one of the more informative dealing with the subject on TNet...
I found another informative post, by someone whose opinion I really value, and he has done some research on the subject. Unfortunately, it is located on a different forum, and I believe it is frowned on to post links to other artifact forums. Too bad, he did his research....
A couple of things are generally accepted. Flint thunderbirds have been faked since about the 1880's. Also often cited by collectors is the fact that flint thunderbirds have never been found in a controlled archaeological excavation in North America. That is often cited by collectors to support their doubts. It is often stated that archaeologists working in North America regard them as fake. I'm not judging these statements, just noting them, as flint thunderbirds, like flint fishhooks, are common fakes, and archaeologists regard them as fakes. FWIW.....
When somebody finds one, in non-suspicious circumstances, diplomacy is in order....
I found another informative post, by someone whose opinion I really value, and he has done some research on the subject. Unfortunately, it is located on a different forum, and I believe it is frowned on to post links to other artifact forums. Too bad, he did his research....
A couple of things are generally accepted. Flint thunderbirds have been faked since about the 1880's. Also often cited by collectors is the fact that flint thunderbirds have never been found in a controlled archaeological excavation in North America. That is often cited by collectors to support their doubts. It is often stated that archaeologists working in North America regard them as fake. I'm not judging these statements, just noting them, as flint thunderbirds, like flint fishhooks, are common fakes, and archaeologists regard them as fakes. FWIW.....
When somebody finds one, in non-suspicious circumstances, diplomacy is in order....
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Charl
Silver Member
Well, I believe it would be OK to post this information. It is from the Information Center of a site that deals with Native American artifacts. I think this will help, as, judging from some of the most recent comments in this thread, not everyone understands why flint thunderbirds are generally regarded as modern in origin. So, this info will at least allow people to understand how that general conclusion did arise in the first place:
https://forums.arrowheads.com/forum...types-gc101/105656-thunderbird-eagle-effigies
https://forums.arrowheads.com/forum...types-gc101/105656-thunderbird-eagle-effigies
DigIron2
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Ok. I was just wondering. It is neat though.
unclemac
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you want to guard against things like "thunder birds" or "great spirit" or "war bonnet", "speaker staff", "tomahawk", "peace pipe" etc, etc, etc. A lot of what folks think they know about Native Americans and pre-Colombian civilization is made up fantasy and generalizations from one area to another as if all Indian peoples were one homogeneous group with a single "religion". We would all be better for it if we thought of ancient peoples as not all that different than us...with the same basic needs, motivations, and differing abilities.
roberthathaway7
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Well... I see that the authenticity of this starts out as shaky by default... but my father found this effigy in a small collection he bought, was wondering if anyone had any opinions on it?
I
I
I quite frankly have Little doubt that thunderbirds were sometimes made out
of chert. Lizzards and bird of prey chert artifacts have already been documented many times. Some lizzard pottery and bird of prey pots have been documented.as well.
of chert. Lizzards and bird of prey chert artifacts have already been documented many times. Some lizzard pottery and bird of prey pots have been documented.as well.
Charl
Silver Member
And here are some flint effigies made in Mexico, including some familiar looking "thunderbirds"....
Flint Shapes, Flint Cow Skull, Flint Cross, Flint Turtle, Flint Fish Hook, Flint Buffalo, Flint Thunderbird
Charl
Silver Member
bc219
Newbie
Well, since this thread seems to keep getting revived, I'm going to do it again...
I am new to this site, I came here today because I acquired some of an arrowhead collection from a friend who is moving out of state and needed to get rid of things. He has many framed sets of them, I chose this one becasue of the animals - they're so unique and I'd never seen anything like them. One appears to be an eagle (or thunderbird?) and the other a turtle(?).
So anyway, I came home and googled around, learned a little bit about arrowheads in general but couldn't find out much about the animals so here I am...
These were purchased at an auction in Crown Pointe, Indiana around 20 years ago. My friend told me that they are authentic, and at one point he had papers - and still does but doesn't know where. He was under the impression that the entire collection he purchased was found in Indiana but he is not 100% on that.
So I was wondering, what is the purpose of the "arrowheads" that are shaped like animals? Is this a good find? I don't plan to sell them, just kind of curious about what I have here...
I am new to this site, I came here today because I acquired some of an arrowhead collection from a friend who is moving out of state and needed to get rid of things. He has many framed sets of them, I chose this one becasue of the animals - they're so unique and I'd never seen anything like them. One appears to be an eagle (or thunderbird?) and the other a turtle(?).
So anyway, I came home and googled around, learned a little bit about arrowheads in general but couldn't find out much about the animals so here I am...
These were purchased at an auction in Crown Pointe, Indiana around 20 years ago. My friend told me that they are authentic, and at one point he had papers - and still does but doesn't know where. He was under the impression that the entire collection he purchased was found in Indiana but he is not 100% on that.
So I was wondering, what is the purpose of the "arrowheads" that are shaped like animals? Is this a good find? I don't plan to sell them, just kind of curious about what I have here...
quito
Silver Member
The points look legit from what I can see on my phone, I would be very suspicious of the knapped figures.
arrow86
Silver Member
I think most people believe that any thunderbird effigys are fake and modern made. I believe that they could have existed as they were clearly talented enough to make such things but than you gotta decide if they would have spent valuable time making it and using good material I can’t see any practical use other than just a pendant or something along those lines However the amount of them that are posted and “found” really makes me think they are all fakes. It’s a shame because even if somebody found a real one it would be hard to convince people due to all the fakes out there.
quito
Silver Member
Ummm. I think that’s against forum rules calling someone’s artifact a fake.
I can assure you the one I posted was not fake. They are made of clam shell, are rare, but well accepted to be legit up here.
Now as for chipped or flaked t-birds, that’s a totally different critter.
I can assure you the one I posted was not fake. They are made of clam shell, are rare, but well accepted to be legit up here.
Now as for chipped or flaked t-birds, that’s a totally different critter.
arrow86
Silver Member
Had nothing to do with you at all and I didn’t call his a fake once again it was an OPINON last time I checked everybody’s still entitled to have one... not to mention entire thread was about knapped flint not ur shells...
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quito
Silver Member
I see, with a disclaimer we can call stuff fakes? let’s get a mods oponion.
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