Copper Artifact from California *Updated*

[DrJoePrime]

It was down about 8 inches deep in a huge lawn. This place is close to wetlands and an area used for the 1932 Olympics rowing competition (Long Beach, California).

I brought it home and began cleaning it with a stainless steel brush...BUT I stopped and gasped when I saw it had a design on the front. Hopefully I didn't do any real harm ...it was very corroded and I only removed the corrosion. I've stopped the cleaning.

My first thought was that it's a decorative item from the 1932 Olympics ... but the decoration looks to be hand made and my second thought is that it's a Native American artifact.

Now I actually do have quite a bit of knowledge of Mesoamerican artifacts but have never encountered a copper item. A Google search shows some Amerindian copper artifacts but mostly resembling animals.

ANY HELP or opinions are very gladly received.

This first photo shows the cleaned part in my hand.

Next is the closeup of the Design.

And in the final photo I've outlined (roughly) the design in my photo program.



Thanks for looking and HH, Joe

Update as of 10 July 2008,

I've sent photos to the chairman of Anthropology Department specializing in local Indian cultures and he could not identify as anything local. He said he's pass the photos I e-mailed him around to other specialties. To date I haven't received any replies. The apparent rust is actually only from contact in the soil with rusty object. The reverse side is slightly concave and fits very well with my thumb while holding it.

My speculation is that:

o the item is at least folk art and not manufactured

o It may relate to the 1932 Olympics and rowing somehow

o The "checkmark" LOGO seems unique and I'd like to I.D. that ... any ideas how?

o It appears to be more decorative than utilitarian

I'll be glad to post more photos and I'd like to get some opinions. (I'm pretty sure it's NOT a letter opener)

HH Joe

 

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[Backbacon]

Yawn!

Leave it to a guy from florida to picture authenticate and dis-agree with an Archaic Copper Culture *EXPERT* from the Great Lakes Region. You really should do a little more thinking before posting.

I'm not on anyone's side, but...... The Viking people we're here on the land that of what is know as Canada many years before Columbus even realized that he was lost and wrong about his route to the new world. It would be fascinating to get a sample of this find in order to determine the purity levels of the copper. That would be a good initial step into finding out where the base metal of the artifact came from.

 

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[GatorBoy]

You could start by not posting something with zero content other than your opinion of a person you don't want to hear from.

 

[GatorBoy]

I'm not on anyone's side, but...... The Viking people we're here on the land that of what is know as Canada many years before Columbus even realized that he was lost and wrong about his route to the new world. It would be fascinating to get a sample of this find in order to determine the purity levels of the copper. That would be a good initial step into finding out where the base metal of the artifact came from.

Absolutely correct.

 

[GatorBoy]

What other type of authentication.. is even remotely possible on here other than photo. quito?
I haven't seen anyone stick their hands through my computer screen yet.

 

[quito]

I agree Backbacon, knowing that would tell it all. It appears you are very familiar with history, and these type of artifacts.

For now, I will go lean toward the meso-american theory because of where it was found, the design and the prior *REAL* experts opinions.

Joel

 

[Backbacon]

Well.... Both of you folks (GatorBoy and quito) could join me on a hunt some time? I could put the 2 of you in a canoe with myself and by the end of a the day.... I feel that one's differences could and would be settled? LOL... If not.... We won't go hungry and we would probably all come to the realization that we may learn from one another?

 

[GatorBoy]

That piece is GORGEOUS. I am creating the largest known copper artifact database in the world, and I've never seen anything like it. I suspect that it's from Mesoamerica. Can you tell if it has any silver flaking?

I'm going a presentation on Mesoamerican copper next month in Chicago and would love to feature this in my powerpoint, and also add it to my database. Please send a photo of the piece to [email protected] and note the county in which it was found, how deep, if it was near water, and also if you want anonymity as I log this into my database.

Please see my website at Home - Monette Bebow-Reinhard if you have more questions, or email me and we can converse. I just go done doing a search on Terry James' collection in California, and just this morning noted in my most recent copper newsletter that I didn't find any good copper pieces to share in California.

This is stunning - I usually advise people never to clean an artifact, but you've just given a good reason to do so.
Monette

I'm a very analytical person.
I want to point out this *Expert* statement ... " I'm creating the largest known copper artifact database in the world" " I've never seen anything like it"
Don't you think that should be contemplated?

 

[quito]

"I'm a very analytical person.
I want to point out this *Expert* statement ... " I'm creating the largest known copper artifact database in the world" " I've never seen anything like it"
Don't you think that should be contemplated? "


"I'm going a presentation on Mesoamerican copper next month in Chicago and would love to feature this in my powerpoint, and also add it to my database."

Well analyze that, and then tell us why she (the expert) would want feature that for her presentation on what "On MesoAmerican copper" and add it to her database of what? "MESOAMERICAN copper" then...... She said it, not me.

Anxiously awaiting your analysis of what else she said you ole word cherry picker. Good night.:-)

 

[quito]

I meant to say her database of COPPER CULTURE artifacts.

 

[Backbacon]

Just so the 56,000+ of you are clear... I have contacted her and recorded my finds. No hassle... She is genuine and only cares about preserving and documenting the travels of copper culture artifacts.

 

[Tnmountains]

Good Backbacon. She came here for help but this thread was 5 years old that she posted on. She did not seem like the type to stick around and argue her credentials. Hopefully all the Trade and Copper culture collectors and hunters will contact her and share.

 

[Backbacon]

Good Backbacon. She came here for help but this thread was 5 years old that she posted on. She did not seem like the type to stick around and argue her credentials. Hopefully all the Trade and Copper culture collectors and hunters will contact her and share.

Yes sir 100% with you on that... I did realize this was a older thread.... It's funny how things turn out eh? Is there ever going to be a Canoe ride? If anything this find deserves a bump?

 

[DrJoePrime]

Well I do appreciate this thread come back to life. I just now saw the newer responses.

GatorBoy: I appreciate your opinion on this being a horse bridle frontlet and I'll definitely research that.

Monette: I will dig that artifact out and take some new photos. Sorry that I saw your message too late for earlier inclusion in your database.

While I'm pretty excited about this find it seems I am the only one <smile>. I am a self educated "ex...spurt" on a few Mesoamerican cultures and I know just enough to be dangerous. This artifact does not even remotely resemble any artifacts of the Olmec, Zapotec or Mixtec cultures. I don't anything about Aztec culture.

I welcome any opinions at all and I am researching the Vikings angle now.

Thanks all,

 

[Boxtopp]

Very cool find Joe!
Can't wait to find out positively on what it is.

 

[bci101tractors]

Yes sir 100% with you on that... I did realize this was a older thread.... It's funny how things turn out eh? Is there ever going to be a Canoe ride? If anything this find deserves a bump?

I'd love to go canoeing with you...I wish I could take some folks here hating on Iowa, and show off my parts here in Iowa to show them it's not all corn and beans...lol

 

[Backbacon]

I believe that the Viking Culture of that of which is proven to have had an extensive habitation on what is now known as Newfoundland, may have mingled with the Native population. There are legends of red haired giants who mined the copped deposits in the Lake Superior Region at this time. That being said.... Would the Vikings have such a hard time to sail South down the East Coast of what we both know as North America? The Lake Superior Native Copper is some of the purest in the world and can be easily recognized in comparison to other copper samples from around the globe due to said purity. A scraping off of your recovery versus some of the other know purity levels of other global copper samples may reveal the origin of which your artifact's base material has originated.

 

[flakebiter]

Oh man, I never knew there were cu-arsenide artifacts.
Like I need another thing to obsess over!
Treasure Net is the best.
D@#% that's cool.

 

[DrJoePrime]

Somehow...I revisited this thread again ..and again got obsessed and spent a few hours researching. Alas, to no avail.

So..anyway Here's some newer better photos front and back. It weighs in at over 1 ounce and has some heft when holding it.

The patina is quite thick..looking at the backside near the point. There appear to be markings within the check mark but difficult to say if they are intentional

.

 

[Tnmountains]

It may not even be ancient america. Maybe a colonial item? I would post it in the "what is it" section. Let them determine what it is not. I have been on this thread off and on for a few years now We need to solve it.