History repeats itself... How many times has the sink hole been dug?

[treasure1822]

Okay, the problem lies with me. I am not being clear enough. This map is from Harold T. Wilkins book, "Captain Kidd and his skeleton Island". It was drawn by Harold T. Wilkins in the early 1900's taken from a map that he said he had seen in the British museum. The rough Shape of the island, the text describing distance and direction, and the reference to North, South, East and West are what I believe to be a part of the original map. Everything else was probably added by Wilkins or the publisher to enhance the book. Gilbert Hedden had the island surveyed and it is known as the "Roper" survey. When they surveyed they found that the "Money Pit" was 14 rods North of the "Stone Triangle". They also found the 2 white granite stones with the 1/4 inch holes on the top of them and they were 25 rods apart. They found that if marked 7 rods west of the Eastern stone the "Stone triangle" was roughly 30 rods southwest of that point. The only thing that Hedden couldn't understand was the "7 by 8 by 4"-....Jean Lafitte had made a statement that A parrot will repeat what it hears, a monkey will imitate the movements of man, you can lure furred animals in to traps with shiny objects and man can be lead down bad or false paths. He also believed in one particular piece of the Bible, PROVERBS-14:15 and it reads something like "A simple man believes every word, the intelligent man gives thought to his steps". Think about it; remove everything except the shape of the Island, and the text (18 W by 7 E on rock, 30SW, 14N, Tree, 7 by 8 by 4 and the reference to North South East and West. Now orient the map so North is "UP" (and I know that it is not a "true" representation of true North to the position of the island) If you notice the words now will be "upside down". If I told you to read the directions again I believe everyone would say (18 W by 7 E on rock, 30SW, 14N, Tree, 7 by 8 by 4) because everyone has already read it. The problem with that is to be correct you have to start at the top and work your way down reading from left to right. So do me a favor, I want everyone to rotate each word 180 degrees just like taking a pin and putting it in the center of each word then rotate it so you can read it. What you have just done is change directions or go backwards. Now if you read it, it says to (7 by 8 by 4, Tree, 14N, 30SW, 18W by 7E on Rock) Now that doesn't make sense to the island but we are forgetting one important thing and that is the "Key" to this. "CHANGE DIRECTION" (7 BY 8 BY 4, TREE, 14 SOUTH 30 NORTHEAST, 18 EAST BY 7 WEST ON ROCK) There was a Stone found by Dan Blankenship and it had the letter "G" on it and it was found as close as I can figure was "Near the Cave-In Pit". That's where the map takes us and as I have said since before this forum, "The Templar's and the Masons are the same", the Masons are just a refined order of the templar's. So, where is the Letter "G"' found to a Mason, well besides in the center of the square and compass, On the Eastern Wall or "ABOVE THE ENTRANCES TO ANY MASONIC STRUCTURE". So, if any of you are wondering about the 7 by 8 by 4, stop and think out if you had to give someone directions. What are two things that have to definitely be given? How about a “START” and a “FINISH” point. The finish point is given on the map but the start is no so easy. Granted the map says 7 by 8 by 4, and Gilbert Hedden was thinking dimensional like triangle but is it possible to write it another way to sat it? Yes, the answer is 784. The 7 is by the 8 which is by the 4. Now this is the only ”Error” that I believe Wilkins made when he copied the map. I believe that Wilkins misread the number 7 and it should have been 1. The only reason I say that is because of the “Boat Stone” found in Westford Massachusetts found 30+ years ago. It has a “BOAT” and a “ARROW” which I would say it is pointing down and the number 184. And believe me that people who have actually view this up close said “184”. I am taking their word because hey, they were there not me. Break down the meaning of each thing on the stone. “BOAT”, which at looking at it is not a small dory or small fishing boat. It is a representation of a larger boat or sea going vessel. Where do you find these boats? On the sea, or in this case along the sea coast. “ARROW” which is what I would presume to be self-explanatory, it shows direction. But in this case since we do not know how the stone was oriented I cannot prove which way it pointed. The best that I can do is refer back to my maps directions and assume that the “ARROW” was pointing south and I am to reverse directions go backwards which means I head north. “184”, has to be distance, but they didn’t use miles or kilometers, they measured distance in what was known as a “LEAGUE” which is a unit of measure that is based on how far a person could walk in an hour and it ranges from 2.4 to 4.6 miles per hour. Now think about this, “SEA COAST” + “NORTH” + “184 LEAGUES” or 441.6 to 846.4 miles away. Does the location of Oak Island fall within those parameters? Oh yeah. But wait, with such a large difference between 441 to 846 mile, how do I know that it the right area? Remember how I have said that it was “Sinclair” and his men. That less than two miles from where they found the “Boat Stone” lies a carving of what they call the “Westford Knight”, supposedly Sir James Gunn a member of Sinclair’s party. They say that it has properties of “Viking” carving but the sword on the carving was 1400’s. Anyways, follow the shoreline on the southeastern side of Nova Scotia on the southern shores of Mahone Bay on what is now known as 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] peninsula. There is the “The Norumbega Vinland Stone” a memorial stone to immortalize the achievements of a person or people in their lifetime. The only problem, it’s not complete and it doesn’t make sense. If you are viewing the writing on the stone, you are also looking at Mahone Bay. Find the island that matches the maps. What do you do when you land on the island? You do exactly what McGinnis and his two friends did by accident, “FIND THE TREE” the starting point on the island. Please do not tell me that this was too complicated to figure out because more work to design the money pit and it’s nothing more than a false path. I have put a lot of time in this…..so where is the treasure. From the first marker in Westford Massachusetts follow the coast north walking for about 23 days. When you find the second marker look for the island that matches the map. Once on the island find the tree that sticks out. From there move 14 rods south to the stone triangle, then northeast so the 30 rod straight line goes from the stone triangle and thru the point that lies 7 rods west from the east stone and 18 rods east of the west stone. There you will find a stone with a “G” marking the entrance of the Vault. I theorize that this map was created not for just anyone, maybe it was meant for Sinclair’s family but they couldn’t put the pieces together and later the map and charts were donated to the British museum.

 

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[Robot]

I have posted the Freemason's Celestial map and some of my reasoning on the other thread on this forum.
Take a look

 

[Dave Rishar]

Please try to break your posts up into paragraphs, treasure1822. They're very difficult to read and respond to in that format. A few things jumped out at me, though...

1. Distances surveyed in rods. Where the distances so precise that feet were not required, or are those the approximate distances in rods? If it's the former, that is a problem. (I'll let you figure out why if you haven't already.) If it was the latter, it means very little in terms of defining a map.

2. I don't know where you came up with the Freemasons being descendants of the Templars, but you may want to recheck that. No Freemason that I know would ever make such a claim.

3. You seem to believe that one needs to start in MA to find the first marker, then move north "about 23 days" before finding the second marker. What is the guarantee that the second marker will be found? "About 23 days"? How fast did the people doing the burial move compared with how quickly or slowly the recoverer will be moving? This appears to me to be not only overly elaborate to the point of silliness, but also a good way to get the person who's supposed to find the treasure hopelessly lost. How will they find the marker? How will they even be sure of when to start looking for it? And a 23 day journey through lands that were peopled by natives that, at least at times, did not react kindly to strangers?

I realize that you put a lot of work into this, but I'm not seeing this particular scenario.

 

[treasure1822]

To the entire forum,
I would like to take this opportunity to apologies for my appalling demonstration of writing skills. My intensions were only to share my findings with people that I believed to have a genuine interest in finding the answers to Oak Island. Whether or not you believed in my theory is of no importance but a little effort to understand would be appreciated.
Let’s look at the only thing that we know that “Science” has verified. The carbon-dating of the coconut fibers at the inlet of the flood tunnel is dated to 1260 to 1400 AD. Now, how many possible suspects do we have in the “Who Done It” line up and that includes modern myths. I will start with my favorite….
1) Sir Henry Sinclair (Supposed leader of the Knight Templar) (Born 1345- Died 1400)
2) Sir Francis Bacon (Hiding the location in the works of Shakespeare) (Born 1561 – Died 1625)
3) The Spanish (Part of a Treasure Fleet from the New World) (Based on Columbus after 1642)
4) Captain William Kidd (Pirate Born 1645 - Died 1701)
5) Edward Teach (Better Known as Blackbeard) (Pirate Born 1680 - Died 1718)
6) E.T. (Time Frame According to ancient alien theorists (Pre-3000 B.C. to Current)

Okay people; please tell me if I am missing anybody. Let us use our powers of deduction to start reducing the list of suspects using our verified parameter. How many of our suspects fall into the carbon-dating time frame? Answer= Sir Henry Sinclair and E.T.
I am sorry to say and I mean no disrespect to the “Ancient Alien Theorist”, but I am not quiet in line with the idea of the “Ark of the Covenant” housing a piece of alien technology and given to Moses by an alien that we call God.
Now as I continue to delve into the unique observations of my esteemed colleague Mr. Dave Rishar, he has pointed out that I had said that the “Roper Survey” was in “Rods”. He is correct in that observation and again I do apologize for misleading the group with not false information, but more non-comprehensible information seeing that most people are versed in ancient units of measure. Now to the people who do not understand, a “Rod” is equal to a SAE measurement of 16.500 feet. I will give you the converted numbers.
14 Rods or (231 feet)--- 30 Rods or (495 feet)----18 Rods or (297 feet)---7 Rods or (115.5 feet).
Now Dave has pointed out that the difference of the two measures and he is correct in the determination that “feet” is more accurate than “rods”. I don’t believe that the creator was worried about someone finding a large rock at a distance of 16.5 feet so it must be quite large. I have never actually the seen the “G” stone on Oak Island or where Dan Blankenship had found it. He just said near the cave-in pit.
Dave also pointed out there is nothing to tie the Templar to the Masons. And again he makes a fine argument. But I have to ask the question of any American today. What are you? Let me use myself as an example. My heritage is “Dutch”, “French” and “Italian” just to hit the “BIG” 3. Yes I am a mutt….
Now do I call myself “Dutch”, “French” or “Italian”? No. Do I call myself “Dutch American”, “French American” or “Italian American”? No. Then what do I call myself? American. And why do I say that? Because I am, born, raised and will die in this country. So I have to ask this question to Dave. Why would a Mason call himself a Templar when he joined the Masons and none of them served as a Templar.
You also have to remember Dave in that 2 page sentence that I wrote. I believe that the Templars redefined themselves as Freemasons. It seems to me that I had heard the Templars at the end were about 250,000 strong spread out across Europe but don’t quote me on that. So you are going to tell me that the sacrifice of the 50 Templars that were tortured and put to death by King Phillip IV was enough to make the other 249,950 Templars tuck their tails and roll over? I don’t think so; it was the loss of the Church, because Pope Clement was a pawn to King Phillip IV. King Phillip did not want to pay back the money he borrowed from the Templars. I never said “Descendants”.
Let’s go on to the last question Dave has laid before me. I always save the Best for last. I hope you don’t mind Dave, but I’m going to jump around a little.
Okay, I’m going to start with the “Getting Hopelessly lost”. If you are following the coast what do you keep in view? The water of course. If you are looking at the water, how many directions can you go and maintain following the coast north? Answer 1. If the coast is to your right, you are following the coast north. If you are keeping the coast to your left your heading south and if your keeping the coast to your back, you deserve to be lost.
The 23 days is my own calculation. The map gives no measurement of time only distance which is 184 leagues. This can be calculated out though. Remember I said the “LEAGUE” is a distance traveled by a person with in a 1 hour period. The range is 2.4 miles to 4.6 miles per league. The average is 3.0 miles per league. How many hours of light are there in a day? I utilized 8, not knowing the time of year. Eating become a factor and of Corse obstacles. Anyways I calculated in 8 hours a average person in 8 hour can walk 24 miles per day providing everything is good. Using google earth and its measuring feature I had calculated roughly 552 miles keeping close to the shoreline except when I got to Nova Scotia then it was head south. If I had followed the shore it puts me to the high end of the distance scale and who is to say they walked all the way.
“How will they know when to start looking for the marker”? That’s an easy one, when they started their journey. “How will the find the marker”? If you’re in a land where no Europeans have been and you come across a “BOLDER” with European markings on it in an area that you were told to follow, that ought to raise some suspicion in the seekers mind.
“The Hostile Natives”, according to the tales of the Mi’kmaq Indians of Nova Scotia they were befriended by a great man that they call “Glooscap”. He had taught them fishing and was believed to be Sir Henry Sinclair. If I were to take a journey on strange soil, I guarantee I would have a guide that knew his way around.
Now for the last, Dave has claimed I’m to the point of being “Silly”, I don’t think it is at all. What I do think, based on my observation of a few people within this forum, they lack the ability to look beyond their preconceived ideas. They will search for that “X” marks the spot and believe that all who had sought to hide their treasures will have done it with certainty and precision. Then will they realize that that kind of luxury is only of today’s standards and the far distant past is subject to error brought on by man’s ignorance. No one has “Proved me wrong”, with evidence to the contrary. The only thing that has proven against me is the fact that I fail as a writer. But hey, I’m good with that.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd afternoon Dave. Coffee Gentlemen: frankly that seems to be basically an ordinary seaman's map of the period.. Apparently in the tropical 'Atlantic'. and the data is from the rock in the right side of the island. The orientation is not unusual, nor confusing ?? The contour is quite understandable as approaching form the North. Etc.

However I frankly do not think that it has anything to do with Oak Island.

I agree with you Dave.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Robot]

The tree at the Oak Island Money Pit that supported the suppose Block and Tackle could not have existed past the 1700's
Oak trees do not live forever.
The map shown could only be an 18th century map if this tree is part of the markers.

This only allows Pirates, 18th century Freemasons or ET!

I rule out Pirates and ET

 

[treasure1822]

Okay, I am not dissagreeing with that the map doesn't look like the period. But tell me does the shape resemble Oak Island? And, if this is a map of a island in the tropical Atlantic why does the text reference distance and direction between man made articles that are not on that map but exist on Oak Island?

 

[treasure1822]

HAHAHA, That was funny Robot....As I have looked up the lifespan of a Oak tree, it ranges from 200 to 1500 years depending on location and type.

 

[Robot]

Harold T. Wilkin's map has been proven to be a fake.

Harold T. Wilkin's map has been proven to be a fake.

The Great Lost Treasure

Trees on Oak Island do not live past 200 years as proof that even the mighty Oak tree does not exist there today.



Use your reasoning and jump over to my Celestial Map which proves where the Treasure Vault exists today.

This is not something of ET

This was an 18th Century GPS

With the invention of the Sextant (1757ad) the 18th Century Freemasons had the ability to use the Stars to extract Longitude and Latitude for an exact location.

The "Star Gamma Cassiopeia" which is where the Freemason's Treasure Vault is located can be exactly located on Oak Island.

 

[treasure1822]

Okay Robot, I understand that the had said that Wilkins Map was a fake. An I am not saying that his map was made find the treasure. I'm putting my theory on hold and giving you my undivided attention. You are going to have to help me astrial identification. I have to ask, please explain your theory of the carbon-dating of the coconut fiber to the time frame of the discovery of the sextant. There is at least a 357 year gap....

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good evening gentlemen, coffee? Never heard of an Astrolabe ? Under proper conditions it can be quite close.

A longitue ' of that many degrees indicated the Atlantic. I doubt that Palms are found growing in the wild further north than say Florida. Yes they have been planted much further north, but we are supposedly talking about what was an uninhibited island in those days which depends upon mom Nature for vegetative distribution. MIND YOU, my friend, I am not discounting your excellent work, just pointing out what to me are obvious defects in your reasoning in order for you to correct them.

my friend I amnot perfect nor cirrect many times. I have had many theories shot down. This is to be considered constructive criticism., and not necessarily correct in itself.

Jose


p.s. The island in your map is far larger than itty bitty oakIsland.

 

[Robot]

Oak Island and Coconut Fiber

View attachment R.V. Harris.pdf

Discarding all the items found within the Money Pit, it is still hard to discount a key piece of evidence as proof to who may have built it. That evidence lies with the use of the Coconut Fiber found within the Main Shaft and Flood Tunnels
My theory for “The (Untold) Story of the Oak Island Money Pit” is based on the Money Pit being built in the 18th Century.

Investigating into the history of the Coconut Tree shows that although it originated in Malaysia during the latter 1200ad. the coconut seeds did not cross over to Africa, Europe, South and Central America until mid-1550ad thus allowing the Coconut Tree, Coconuts and the processed Coconut Fiber unavailable for use until the latter 1600’s.

I believe their was no commercial processing of the coconut fiber in the Atlantic, Caribbean or Central Americas at this time period.

Spanish ships from the East Indies carted supplies and trade to Havana and would off load and store this packing material prior to taking gold shipments back to Spain.
Mr. Harris's letter (attached) states his believe that these fibers originated in the East Indies.

The Keppels would have had boat loads of this material from Havana readily available for their plans at Oak Island.

This allows for the carbon dating of the Coconut Fibers to be 14th Century, while all other stated found items (Wood Pieces and Wood Platforms, Block and Tackle, Cornish Poll-Pick, Axe, Scissors, Shoe, Parchment Paper, Ruler, Anchor Flute, Nails, Metal Fragments, Chain and Boatswain Whistle) compatible with the 18th century, and conform with the Freemasons as builders of The Money Pit at Oak Island.

It would also disqualifies Vikings, Knight Templars and Druids as possible builders, as they did not have access to this quantity of fibers in their time period.

Unless the Vikings portaged their boats over to the Indian Ocean!!

It is interesting that the “Freemasons” choice and use of Coconut Fiber was by no means an accident, as the coir fiber is relatively waterproof, and is one of the few natural fibers resistant to damage by saltwater. By bonding Coconut Fiber with clay and ash (from the burning of their ships), they produced a strong sealant (cement) which would last a very long time.

 

[Robot]

The (Untold) Story of The Oak Island Money Pit

The Oak Island Money Pit was constructed by the “powers that be” that were and still are to this day, the secret force that controls the course of mankind on earth.
This organization is known as - The “Freemasons”.

The story of The Oak Island Money Pit begins in the 1760’s
It was conceived by a number of Britain’s high ranking naval officers, who were also Masonic degree members of the Freemasons and belonging to the Masonic “Premier Grand Lodge of England”.
These Masons were members of the Whig Party opposed to the next successor to the throne, the unstable King George III.
These members were:
Washington Shirley, 5th Earl Ferrers – Vice Admiral - Grand Master of the Masonic Lodge – Premier Grand Lodge of England
George Anson, Baron Anson – Admiral of the Fleet
George Keppel, 3rd Earl of Albemarle - Commander-In-Chief
Augustus Keppel, 1st Viscount Keppel – Rear Admiral – Brother to George Keppel
William Keppel – Lieutenant-General – Brother to George Keppel
George Pocock – Admiral – Commander of the Invasion of Havana
and
Benjamin Franklin – First Grand Master of Pennsylvania who met in 1760 with the Grand Master of England to discuss their plan.

The Mason’s plot originated after King George III’s destruction of the Whig’s political power with his redirection of this power to the Tory Party, and the Mason’s concern of the imminent invasion of England, during the Seven Years’ War, by the joint forces of France and Spain. Spain outlawed all forms of secret organizations, including the Freemasons.

The Mason’s plan was to redirect a fortune to the “New World” (North America), to enable the transfer of the Masonic organization, if and when these fears materialized.
Their plan entailed the capture of Havana in 1762.
Havana’s Morro Castle was the Fort Knox of Spain, holding the South and Central America’s gold supply prior to its shipment to Spain.
The invasion of Havana was under the command of George Keppel, with Admiral George Pocock and Keppel’s two brothers Augustus and William Keppel, commanding the actual attack. They were successful with the capture of Havana and Fort Morro and its unprecedented amount of treasure. They also captured a number of the Spanish Fleet, which was needed to accomplish their plan. Accordingly, Admiral Pocock returned to England with the main English fleet carrying a portion of the treasure, while Augustus and William Keppel along with their crew and Masonic engineers all sworn to secrecy, manned the 8 Spanish Galleons and the 2 British Man of War. This treasure was diverted to a small island off the coast of New England and Nova Scotia now called Oak Island.

At Oak Island the treasure was buried based on the Masonic “Royal Arch” (Enoch’s Temple) consisting of nine arches going down nine levels by way of a main shaft (The Money Pit) which was dug down to the bedrock. From the ninth level another tunnel was constructed which ran back up to a point above the known water level, roughly 20 feet underground and at this point an enormous cavern was built to hold the treasure. The treasure was carted down the main shaft and placed up into this cavern. To conceal their plot they had the 8 Spanish ships dismantled with all the wooden parts not used in the construction of the shaft, tunnels and cavern burnt and all the metal parts (canons, anchors and bolts) were placed at the bottom of the main shaft. Flood tunnels were built out to the ocean to booby trap any treasure seekers attempts to follow down the main shaft. A large stone was placed at the air lock (8th level) as bait to activate the flooding. This stone had strange engravings on it to entice any unworthy treasure seekers to pause and take the bait (stone) away for deciphering, thus allowing time for the tunnels and main shaft to fill with water and be destroyed forever. The Masons knew exactly by their calculated mark above ground where the treasure cavern below ground was located, and could access it by digging down 20 feet.

Once the treasure was secured in the cavern and all the evidence was hidden from the island, it was documented that the Keppels sailed back to England with 2 ships and a small portion of the treasure. They claimed that the remainder of the fleet had sunk in a hurricane on route.

The Masons left several markers on the island to relocate the treasure.
1 large triangle or more precisely a crude Sextant
2 drilled holed stones
1 large stone cross
These combined markers along with the Star Map are used to cross triangulate and a set degree on the sextant point to the “X” where the cavern is today located.

Is the treasure still in this cavern?

I believe it was removed in 1795

One of the three original discoverers of the Money Pit was Daniel McGinnis, who stated he was drawn to the island when he noticed strange lights appearing on the island just prior to his discovery.
These lights were made by the Freemasons when they returned for their treasure.
This Masonic party was headed up by George Washington, President of the United States – acting Grand Master of the Washington DC Masons.

The treasure’s vast fortune was used, as planned, to further the power of the Freemasons in their new world, with them becoming “The New World Order”.

 

[treasure1822]

Robot you are correct!!!

People do not look to a secret society as controling and that is a shame....Does anyone know thagt tha Freemasons are nothing more that a steping stone to something more than the can understand. Once you reach the level of 32nd degree mason which by the way is the hightest level you have two options. One is to stay at the low level Masons are you may advancved by invitation to a higher level. Weather it is Shrinner, Templar, illuminatti, society of the cincinatti it must be by invite only. Some believe that Bill Gate or that guy from mexico is the richest, not even close. The illuminatt has two members whick are the Rothchilds at a stagering 111 trillion dollars oir the rockerfellers at a wopping 75 trillion dollars. Bet you didnt know that. washington belong to the Society of the cincinatti. Do you really think thjat any of your ideas matter? Jesus,look at your own goverment, ZERO accountabillity.....

 

[NEWN]

Links of interest
The Oak Island Money Pit
A.T. Kempton's Fake Inscription
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=271492&page=2
[url]http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/search/pages/results/?dateFilterType=yearRange&date1=1836&date2=1922&language=&ortext=&andtext=&phrasetext=&proxtext=oak+island+treasure&proxdistance=5&rows=20&searchType=advanced
[/URL]

 

[Robot]

Links of interest
The Oak Island Money Pit
A.T. Kempton's Fake Inscription
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/search/pages/results/?dateFilterType=yearRange&date1=1836&date2=1922&language=&ortext=&andtext=&phrasetext=&proxtext=oak+island+treasure&proxdistance=5&rows=20&searchType=advanced]Oak Island hoax - Page 2 - JREF Forum
[/URL]

Hi Newn
You rate my "Oh Ye of little faith" quote:
Thank God for Skeptics!
If mankind’s own imagination or fantasies had not challenged the desires to search out and solve the mysteries in front of him, then the great discoveries of our world would not have taken place.
The “Wheel” may not have been invented, now found in everything from clocks to vehicles to turbines.
"The World is Flat", would have discouraged Columbus from discovering America, and "The Earth being the Center of the Universe", could have halted space exploration.
“Ask a child to name an ancient Egyptian ruler and they will either say Cleopatra or Tutankhamen.
The reason for this is the excavation of the latter’s tomb by Howard Carter in 1922 in the Valley of the Kings. Such was the wealth of treasures and objects in the tomb, and Carter’s meticulousness, it took eight years to empty the tomb and transport its contents to Cairo.”
“Heinrich Schliemann would not have discovered Troy, along with the Mycenaean sites Mycenae and Tiryns from his idea that Homer's Iliad and Virgil's Aeneid, actually reflected historical events”
No, skepticism only pushes on true discoverers to find the real truth to mysteries.
They realize the logical evidence discovered will weigh in their favor, and one day prove that something of great importance is or was buried at “Oak Island”.

 

[Dave Rishar]

Again, Columbus was not the discoverer of North America; he was not even the first European to go there. It should also be noted that he was not simply exploring, but had a definite goal in mind - Asia. He knew that it was theoretically possible because it was common knowledge among the educated in Europe that the Earth was in fact round, as had been proven by the Greeks approximately 1800 years before he was born. (I'd argue that every navigator of the era understood this as well, as the celestial navigation that they'd relied upon since at least as far back as the Greeks required a spherical world in order to function.) The only surprise from this voyage was that there were two continents blocking his path; had North and South America not existed, he might have completed his mission. However, he undertook this with the very firm knowledge that the Earth was round, and if one went far enough west, they'd end up in the east.

I realize that this is just a cut and paste, but it may be time to edit it a bit. Using wheels and Columbus to justify poorly-supported theories is at best misguided, and at worst disingenuous.

 

[Robot]

It is always of interest!
How fast people jump on my Columbus statement without fully reading it.
I have never stated that Columbus discovered North America only America which he did on his third voyage (Central and South)
Many self-professed 'skeptics' appear to devote inordinate effort in an attempt to validate "nothing is there".

 

[Dave Rishar]

As one of the resident skeptics, I'll gladly state that I don't devote inordinate effort in an attempt to validate that "nothing is there." It's actually rather simple to research, which is why I sometimes grow frustrated when I see the same incorrect things repeated time and again that are hardly obscure.

Consider Henry Sinclair, as his name often comes up in these discussions. His title is documented and very easily found, but few had thought to do so. The burden associated with that title was also fairly easy to figure out, but again, nobody had bothered to look it up. When I first found this forum, I found it hard to believe that so little research had been done by some parties, but there it was - they'd heard it from someone else or read it in a book (written by someone who had also likely heard it from someone else and not verified it) and chalked it up as factual without taking even a moment to check those facts. I found it all very confusing, as that's not how I operate either professionally or personally. The more that I pursued it in an effort to better understand the mystery, the more problems that I found with it. The more problems that I found, the more I realized that the later problems were based on the assumption that the earlier problems, weren't in fact problems...but they were. It reminded me of digging up a septic tank, with every shovel full revealing more of the same as a foundation for what had come before. We can go right on back to the beginning (the "bottom of the tank," as it were) and even that has problems with it. What's worse is the amount of time and effort spent trying to figure out what's down there when the most likely answer is that there is nothing down there at all, nor has there ever been. Perhaps that's what bothers me about this the most. I'd be able to take these theories much more seriously if something had actually been recovered over the last 200+ years.

(Interestingly enough, while researching something else I did find a Henry that was associated with the Templars. He was in fact a prince, and he was a competent navigator who liked to travel. Had someone placed him in the role of Zimchni, it would have been more difficult - but still quite possible - to discredit him as a potential tour guide for a group of Templars heading for the New World. I've never seen him mentioned in the context of these discussions, even though he fits the role far better than Sinclair ever could. Anyone care to take a guess at who I'm referring to?)

I don't need to prove that nothing is there, nor could I. If someone dug up a sign tomorrow that said that nothing was there, the true believers would chalk it up as another deception. If someone dug up a horde of gold there tomorrow, there would doubtless be others claiming that it wasn't the real treasure, as it wasn't Shakespearean manuscripts or the Grail or what have you. The solid evidence is there for anyone to look at, as are the stories and speculations. I merely attempt to separate the two. Pointing out problems seldom earns me friends, but it's what I was trained to do. Lest anyone be unjustly hard on me for this, those aren't problems of my creation - they were always there, and had been for centuries in some cases. I merely wanted to discuss them in a logical manner and I seem to be in the minority, but no matter.

If a theory is sound and is based in solid evidence, the theorist has nothing to fear from skeptics.

 

[Robot]

As one of the resident skeptics, I'll gladly state that I don't devote inordinate effort in an attempt to validate that "nothing is there."

Your knowledge and skepticism is well respected and any attention to my Freemason's Celestial Map would be greatly appreciated.