The Templars left a map to the treasure!

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd morning Treasure, coffee Perhaps I had better clarify it a bit more, I do not necessarily believe that the map in a fib, but only that it is not to Oak Island.

may even devote some free time to figuring out just where and what it is.

More cpffee/

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

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[treasure1822]

I understand and appreciate the effort, but can you give some kind of rational explanation to the (18w by 7e on rock, 30sw, 14n, tree) being on that map.

Oh, and I do apologize, "Happy Easter all of you", I hope you all have a great day!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi Treasure, you asked -->(18w by 7e on rock, 30sw, 14n, tree) being on that map.
~~~~~~~~~~~

Will dust off my OUIJI board and get on it my friend, coffee ??

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[treasure1822]

That will work for me! Tell Elvis I said, Hey!

 

[Dave Rishar]

People who have actually seem the stone up close say "184"

It might be something else, but that's the best that I can do with the picture provided. If folks who have seen the stone in person agree with me, I have no reason to argue with them.

What is the significance of that number?

 

[Robot]

I wonder if it could be a message left from an abandoned ship wreck like with Francis Drake who promised to return for those he left behind.

184 seamen from this ship went that a way?

 

[treasure1822]

What is the significance of that number?

To me it is a distance to find the island and what links the the map to the stone. The map in question does not give the location of the island. I would expect a longitude and a latitude somewhere on the map. I believe that the creator of the map had given you everything to find the treasure except where the island is. To me it is a two piece puzzle, you can't find the treasure with just one piece. I don't think that the creator of this ever gave thought to how long a tree lives or to how long it would be before would find what he had left.

 

[HCarter1922]

Wow, you guys/gals are all over the place with this. Here is what I see, take it for what it is worth.
Look at the date the Pit was first discovered. It is in the heart of the time of piracy. Captain Kidd admitted that he used that area as a hiding place for his bounty.
Looking at any artifacts that have been found really don't scream "Templars". Now I am not disregarding the Templar theory but again there has been no type of evidence to state either way.
My personal opinion is simple. It was built buy pirates, maybe Kidd, maybe not. No way to really know. I have seen you guys mention maps many times. The map was a copy (supposedly) of an original map made by Kidd himself.
I believe the answer to this ages old riddle is the stone , but I do not believe there is anyone that knows how to solve that one. Looking at the markings and looking over data bases, what I could find anyway. I haven't seen anything that looks like it.
If memory serves some pirates used codes when working together. Not 100% sure on this though.
But y just examining the simple evidence "the coconut fibers" "The oil lamps" "the carvings on the stones" I would take an educated guess at pirates.
My biggest question is simple. The original boy that saw the lights one evening and discovered the pit. If the pit is of this size and the boy's family home was that close to the island then how could they not see a huge undertaking of building the original pit? Something is amiss there.
I think there is something there, billions in gold, doubtful. The core drilling would have found something besides a bit of would and such.
I am really hoping the brother's find something though!
anyway, just my thoughts.
happy arguing

 

[cmaracing]

There actually is a Templar Map, but its the Piri Reis Map....

 

[HCarter1922]

There actually is a Templar Map, but its the Piri Reis Map....

The Piri Reis map?
I personally do not know the map. You know what I am doing today?!

Googling the map lol.

We all know there is undiscovered treasure's throughout the world. This has been a hobby of mine since I was a kid. I just love the historical portion of the hunt.
Living on the west coast we are very limited to where and what is available to us but it does not deter me.
God I would love to spend a summer on Oak Island!

 

[McClod]

While I have always been fascinated by the mystery of the Oak Island Treasure story, within the first couple of pages of this thread it literally became painfully obvious to me that I am not meant to be a treasure hunter, reading all the info gave me a headache! I guess I better stick to beep and dig and leave the mystery solving to you guys who really have a talent for it!

 

[Hot zone]

The issue of Palm trees not being there, is a none issue for me... I hear people referring to fir trees as pines for instance... Flat landers call any hill a mountain... Island upside down not a problem... The shape of the Island makes it plausible...use a ouiji board, It really doesn't matter, if you are looking for treasure...something was or is buried there!

 

[HCarter1922]

While I have always been fascinated by the mystery of the Oak Island Treasure story, within the first couple of pages of this thread it literally became painfully obvious to me that I am not meant to be a treasure hunter, reading all the info gave me a headache! I guess I better stick to beep and dig and leave the mystery solving to you guys who really have a talent for it!

Thats not true, I am no treasure hunter. I just love reading about it. I don't own a MD......YET!
For many people here I am sure they are lime me. They just simply love the idea of the adventure.
As far as Oak Island is concerned.........its pirates! "Rum for all me hardy's"

Those shores were known for being pirate hideaways. That is documented proof by the way.

 

[cmaracing]

Here we GO....

The Piri Reis map?
I personally do not know the map. You know what I am doing today?!

Googling the map lol.

We all know there is undiscovered treasure's throughout the world. This has been a hobby of mine since I was a kid. I just love the historical portion of the hunt.
Living on the west coast we are very limited to where and what is available to us but it does not deter me.
God I would love to spend a summer on Oak Island!

Hi All...."here we go"...

The Templar's are disbanded and arrested by orders of the Pope Clement V, by 1307 the fleet was gone from La Rochelle, Portugal gave safe haven to the Templar and integrated many of them into the Order of Christ which originally was established as an order of Templar's in 1118, now on to Admiral Reis, Im not going to tell his life story for that we have the Internet but what I will address is that Piri Reis was a privater before becoming an Admiral of the Egyptian fleet.
Piri Reis was fluent in Spanish, Portuges, and many other languages witch gave him an advantage against the crew or dignitary's of captured vessels, so now to his most Camus map "In 1528 Piri Reis drew a second world map, of which a small fragment (showing Greenland and North America from Labrador and Newfoundland in the north to Florida, Cuba and parts of Central America in the south) still survives. According to his imprinting text, he had drawn his maps using about twenty foreign charts and mappae mundi (Arab, Spanish, Portuguese, Chinese, Indian and Greek)."
Now the pics....
First an HD pick of the famous map



Almourol castle was commissioned in 1160 by Gualdim Pais, commander of the Templar knights. Located on an island in the Tagus river





At the time of the Templar downfall, the Templar Fleet was more suited for the Mediterranean and not an Atlantic crossing, so the ships that needed to cross the ocean sailed to Portugal where all contents where loaded to Caravelas which under Portugues flag and very knowledgeable crew the Templar's have managed to break free of the bonds of the Pope...



Ok some will say great story how can you prove it...the members on the carvelas are wearing traditional beards and cloaks but if you look closely you will see a floating head the same head the Templar's are accused of worshiping "St John?" Also look carefully the silver key to identify them as protectors on earth unlike the gold key of the Vatican, remember the Vatican keys is one gold one silver....





Ok will take a break but there is so much more lol.....

 

[HCarter1922]

So where exactly is that island pointed out on the map shown above? Its not Oak island......so basically what I am seeing is simple. "They're digging in the wrong spot"

Now I am far from an expert on the Templar's and the Mason's. But is it really feasible that they would be able to keep such a treasure secret?

 

[Dave Rishar]

My biggest question is simple. The original boy that saw the lights one evening and discovered the pit. If the pit is of this size and the boy's family home was that close to the island then how could they not see a huge undertaking of building the original pit? Something is amiss there.
I think there is something there, billions in gold, doubtful. The core drilling would have found something besides a bit of would and such.

Your biggest question is a very good one. One possible answer is that a treasure was being recovered and not buried, but then you could rephrase your question slightly and it would still be very good. Do not expect a very good answer to it. Something like this isn't done overnight. However, a persistant issue with the Oak Island legend is that few elements of it make sense when taken on their own, so attempting to base assumptions on any given part of the story will simply bring down the whole house of cards. In order for it to make sense, one must assume that some (most?) of it is wrong, but somehow becomes right when taken as a whole. I'm still trying to figure this out.

As for your opinion of what may be down there, I'd ask you to revisit the statement that you made just before that one if you really want to know. You've indirectly answered your own unanswered question.

The issue of Palm trees not being there, is a none issue for me... I hear people referring to fir trees as pines for instance... Flat landers call any hill a mountain... Island upside down not a problem... The shape of the Island makes it plausible...use a ouiji board, It really doesn't matter, if you are looking for treasure...something was or is buried there!

So the palm trees are actually pine trees. I don't agree but I'll concede the point for the sake of argument. What about the desert and the mountains? This is not a matter of one small error. It is a matter of many large errors. If we accept that there are that many errors, how can we know that the rest of it is factual?

So where exactly is that island pointed out on the map shown above? Its not Oak island......so basically what I am seeing is simple. "They're digging in the wrong spot"

Now I am far from an expert on the Templar's and the Mason's. But is it really feasible that they would be able to keep such a treasure secret?

If they killed all of the hired help after the job, yes...the secret might be kept. Might. Given the number of men required, I'm not sure that it would be possible unless the vast majority of the labor force was killed off after the job was done. This might also have been done, but would create its own problems.

 

[cmaracing]

That's the thing, the Templar fleet was sent out, some boats went towards the Scandinavian Peninsula were Templars integrated into there daily life, some boats followed the African coast, but the majority of Carvelas journeyed to the new land Of Canada, United States, and Brasil where they started new lives, treasure some gold, you are looking for stuff they used to begin a new life, throughout history people have had to take what they had at hand things they value books, some valuables, family and tradition but the Templar's greatest treasure where there lands there castles there power and influence and you cant pack that.
Would I like to find a treasure or the Grail, yes, but you have to remember that at the time the Templar's where trying just to survive, I know many believe the Templar's went to Scotland and England but one must remember when the Pope sent out his Decree there already where Templar's in England and Scotland, there lives were also in danger for the majority of Templar's especially those the central Europe was to get as far as possible...
For example there are rumors and facts of German solders at the end of WW2 fleeing out of Europe to North and South America there is even proof of German expats establishing themselves in parts of Africa..."Its Human Nature to Survive".
The facts prove that the Templar's established there wealth after returning from Jerusalem but at the same time we all must remember that most Templar's where aristocrats, yes there is a Treasure But said Treasure is Knowledge and an Artifact....
Just one more thing the Templar's in the New World of North and South America did not need to hide a treasure, the power of the Vatican could not reach that far.....

 

[Hot zone]

So let's imagine the maker of the map wanted to include some diception as to the location of someone having just the map! Then palms, mountains and deserts would indicate a different climate and have someone looking in the wrong place! When actually the outline, upside down map, trees, high ground and area with little vegetation(at that time) are cleverly suggested... All in all making the map theory plausible to ME! But then ,As I said, none of it matters as something is or was buried there by somebody!

 

[Dave Rishar]

That's the thing, the Templar fleet was sent out, some boats went towards the Scandinavian Peninsula were Templars integrated into there daily life, some boats followed the African coast, but the majority of Carvelas journeyed to the new land Of Canada, United States, and Brasil where they started new lives, treasure some gold, you are looking for stuff they used to begin a new life, throughout history people have had to take what they had at hand things they value books, some valuables, family and tradition but the Templar's greatest treasure where there lands there castles there power and influence and you cant pack that.

What is this assertion based on? It's both generally accepted and completely plausible that some of the non-French Templars packed up and left after the order was dissolved, but it's poorly documented. What is documented is that for the most part, they didn't have to leave. We know that a significant portion of them simply joined other orders. When the pope dissolved the order, he neither stated nor implied that they all had to die; he simply said that they couldn't call themselves Templars anymore, and he didn't seem particularly pleased to have to do so.

As has been previously mentioned on this forum, the Templars in Portugal simply changed their name and went right on with business as usual, operating like this for centuries until the Knights of Christ were eventually secularized. This doesn't strike me as a group of people who were worried about lasting repercussions stemming from continued persecution. Once it was over, it was over. Thus, self-imposed exile might have seemed attractive to certain Templars for a variety of reasons, but outside of France and probably England, I don't think that it was absolutely necessary by any means.

Would I like to find a treasure or the Grail, yes, but you have to remember that at the time the Templar's where trying just to survive, I know many believe the Templar's went to Scotland and England but one must remember when the Pope sent out his Decree there already where Templar's in England and Scotland, there lives were also in danger for the majority of Templar's especially those the central Europe was to get as far as possible...
For example there are rumors and facts of German solders at the end of WW2 fleeing out of Europe to North and South America there is even proof of German expats establishing themselves in parts of Africa..."Its Human Nature to Survive".
The facts prove that the Templar's established there wealth after returning from Jerusalem but at the same time we all must remember that most Templar's where aristocrats, yes there is a Treasure But said Treasure is Knowledge and an Artifact....
Just one more thing the Templar's in the New World of North and South America did not need to hide a treasure, the power of the Vatican could not reach that far.....

Scotland would have been a good place for an ex-Templar to run to. Robert the Bruce was no friend of the church, having been excommunicated several years before all of this took place; he was also no friend of the English, who had also gone above and beyond the call of duty in their persecution of the Templars. (Likely for the same reasons that Philip had.) Did any of them go there? It's plausible and logical, particularly when we're discussing English Templars. We may never know for certain.

It's interesting that you mention Germans fleeing Germany after WW2. Central and South America were obvious choices not only because they were far away, but also because (and this is important!) there were existing and well-established German communities already there. A German man fleeing to a town where everybody looked, spoke, and acted differently than he did would cause him to stick out like a sore thumb, but a German man fleeing to a town full of Germans that had been there for multiple generations would not only allow him to blend in intially (and be somewhat sympathetic to his plight), but would also simplify and speed up his transition into his new life. This is also why Germans wound up in Africa. (I believe that German was actually an official language of South Africa until 1990.) Likewise, a German fleeing to America would know that this would be a risky move, but he'd be able to count on that same support system; every major city and plenty of smaller ones would have a neighborhood populated with Germans. A European fleeing to the New World in the 14th century would have had none of these advantages, but would have been faced with a hazardous journey to even get there, surviving in a new and unfamiliar place, and somehow making friends with locals who were not known for treating strangers kindly.

Could it have happened? I suppose. Almost anything could have happened. But did it? There's little hard evidence to support it, and it's a pretty elaborate theory that requires some faith in order to work.

 

[treasure1822]

He All,
Hot Zone, deception is what I believe the creator had in mind but the deception was not the amenities on the island. Those were nothing more than additives placed on the copy of the map to create the air of believably to the reader of the "Captain Kidd and his skeleton island". The deception of Sir Henry Sinclair was more to the reader of the map making them believing that the "Tree" was where the treasure was placed. Like I said, it's a 2 piece puzzle, you have to know where to start to finish in the right place. I believe that the Templar's had occupied the island before Sinclair's trip in 1398. That was the last trip which was to transport the Templar's treasure to it's final destination.