SPANISH COINS mean Spainish treasure..

Nov 8, 2004
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Charley & old silver they don't exist?? well one certainly does. Cover by way of Crow and his many talents.

joseph curry tayopa gold of the sun. 2.jpg SunRise.jpg
 

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Au_Dreamers

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Dave Rishar you wrote,
"I hope that one of these holes hits something, but if I were a betting man, I'd bet that this won't happen."-you wrote that after the shows date of them finding something drilling:icon_scratch: maybe your "something" is something of irrefutable evidence...

If I recall a previous post you wrote about having to catch up with this seasons show as it seems interesting or something like that.

So with this post I wonder if you're even watching the show because on this past week's show the drilling did hit "something". (please don't read that with malice)

Again it's Oak Island so "what" they did find is up to debate.

I have honest questions for you and Charlie.
When did you start your interest in Oak Island?
Have you actually studied Oak Island outside of this thread here?
Have you read any of the books or articles printed?
Have you visited various websites about Oak Island?
Have you watched the History Channel TV show?
If so, how many? All?

If you do take the time to reply I do appreciate it.

Thanks
-Cheers
 

Charlie P. (NY)

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I have honest questions for you and Charlie.
When did you start your interest in Oak Island? - My Father was interested (as I am) in natural history and pre-and post Columbian artifacts in North America. Also shipwrecks and recovery. As I kid I had access to Dad's National Geographic, Argosy, True, Popular Mechanics, Popular Science, Scientific American, Smithsonian, etc. (Dad was a reader - as I am). I have heard of Oak Island repeatedly over the years but never gave it much serious thought.
Have you actually studied Oak Island outside of this thread here? I have not had a chance to "study" the island itself first-hand but have read several articles - going back preInternet. My aunt and cousins visited the site back in the 1960's. Would also have read the Reader's Digest article (we still get that and have since I can remember back through childhood). Apparantly I know more abut the pre-Columbian Portugese and Spanish fishing and camps, or even the native activity that went on around Nove Scotia than the cast and crew of the show do. They were looking for evidence that "people had visited Oak Island before 1795". It was between two forts that were built in Queen Anne's time (1750's) so I'm certain there was lumber, water, hunting, scouting, fishing, etc. that was going on all around that bay. Likely that island as it is amoung the larger islands. The French & Indian War and the Revolutionary War are peak interests of mine so I have some peripheral information on what was going on along the East Coast through those periods. I'm also a sailor and all sailors have at least a passing interest in pirates. ;-)
Have you read any of the books or articles printed? No books on Oak Island. Several articles. Also articles about local geology that pertain to the region of Oak Island. Have read books on early navigation up through modern, some on Captain Wm. Kidd, some on the Knights Templar and the Hospitallers. I enjoy non-fiction and biographies.
Have you visited various websites about Oak Island? I did some poking around when I started reading this thread.
Have you watched the History Channel TV show? If so, how many? All?
I believe I am current; though the Free View ends 11/30 and I'll be relying on what I can gather here to keep abreast.

HAVE been CFO on two boards of directors and for a City and know most wealth is kept close and working. Not buried out of sight.


 

Dave Rishar

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My word...I'm away from here for a few days and things get crazy. Let's see if I can't catch up.

The point about Gordon having solid proof is that the archies didn't want to believe him. And when they found him to be right, they stole his find. And this is the outfit you want running everything?

I'm not sure what you're asking here. Are you asking whether or not I'd like a legitimate professional to be involved with the operation? If that's what you're asking, yes, I would.

No, you're wrong. They do trip over one another to claim amazing finds, it's just that those finds are usually found by others, who are not archaeologists. Now we can't have that, right?

A verified find? I'd very much like to have one of those. That's exactly what's missing from Oak Island, an honest to God find that's been properly vetted. That's what I want to see. That's probably what you want to see as well. That doesn't seem to be what the people who have been digging holes in that island wanted to see though, or else they'd make the appropriate arrangements...which they haven't done, ever.

I'm pretty sure that none of this is being done to impress YOU.

I'm absolutely certain that none of this is being done to impress ME. As much as I'd love for something to be there, I have no skin in this game. I'm merely pointing out the problems. Please stick with those problems. As interesting as I may be, I am not the problem with Oak Island.

You would waste more money on an archaeologist when there's nothing there to be found? Wouldn't that be adding to the money pit (money drain)?

I'd "waste" money on making the operation scientifically sound. I know that this is a very new concept with Oak Island, but it's something that's needed. I want the next "find" that turns up to be inscrutable. I want experts to look at it. I want a history for it. Basically, I want this story to be based on more than, "Well, this one guy said..."

Am I asking too much here?

@Dave Rishar

This is a treasure hunt. Your standard for "proof" is impossibly high. If we had a treasure map that pointed to a fresh hole in the ground, there would be no hunt, there would only be newspaper articles and dinner table conversation.

My standard for proof is actually rather low: find something significant. If we can't find something significant, why are we speculating about what may be there?

Numerous eyewitnesses describe a man-made shaft dug to at least ninety feet. Eye witnesses describe wooden platforms, flood tunnels, made-made beaches and swamps, as well as an array of bizarre artifacts and phenomena.

Numerous eyewitnesses to the Michael Brown case explained in detail how he was shot in the back. He was not shot in the back, which is probably why the grand jury declined to indict. Some of them didn't even know what kind of car Officer Wilson had been in, although they'd reportedly seen everything go down. (And by "car," they did not know that he was in a SUV.) Witnesses get things wrong. It's not always intentional, but there's a reason why the emphasis is on forensics and not witnesses. People remember things incorrectly...assuming that they had firsthand knowledge of the case, which they don't always have.

Since you brought it up though, the original witnesses back in the day were convinced that this was pirate treasure. One old guy claimed to have been part of the group that buried it. Why is everyone convinced that it's something else now?

There is more than enough evidence here to warrant a "treasure hunt." If you consider the fact that hunting on the island is really only possible seven months of the year due the the harsh weather we get here in the winter, we really haven't been looking for very long.

Only two hundred years, give or take. Not very long at all on the geographical scale of things.

Not to mention the first hundred years of searching was done with very little info to go on and archaic tools.

The same tools that would have been used by anyone allegedly burying a treasure there, and a firsthand account of where it was. I'll give you that. Were the tools not up to the job? Was the story incorrect? Think about this one carefully before answering.

Again, there is more than enough evidence collected over the years to warrant a very thorough and modern investigation.

Your definition of evidence is apparently not the same as mine. People are welcome to spend their money as they wish, just as they have been for centuries. My main concern is that no one has died this time.

Dave Rishar

Although they came from a reality show (which I place little faith in), the whole coconut fiber found in the cove area was very interesting. THAT is where facts meet the tale. The tale is that the cove was dammed off and drained. A trench was dug, and a thick mat of coconut fiber was laid down. Over that was placed pieces of flat rock to form drains that led to whichever level it was of the Hole (10X). Over the years, many people have said that was all fantasy. On the show, they found coconut fiber right where it was supposed to be. Very good evidence was also shown that at one time the cove had been dammed off for some reason. The water in 10X raises and lowers with the tide. Die Bombs have been dropped into 10X and the die comes out not only from the cove, but two other places as well.

Fact: they found fibers, and this is very interesting.

Fact: the water level in 10X follows the tides, although there's a geological explanation for that.

Not a fact: everything else that you wrote. Look it up if you don't believe me.

If the Woods Hole expedition turned up a smoking gun, why didn't Trident make it public? A positive report would be to their advantage.

So, forget for a second all the stories of Cat Kidd, The Templars, The Masons, The Lost Tribe, Viking Hoards, etc. Just look objectively at what has been found. Does what was found support or oppose the story as told?

What has been found? What has really been found?

Dave Rishar you wrote,
"I hope that one of these holes hits something, but if I were a betting man, I'd bet that this won't happen."-you wrote that after the shows date of them finding something drilling:icon_scratch: maybe your "something" is something of irrefutable evidence...

If I recall a previous post you wrote about having to catch up with this seasons show as it seems interesting or something like that.

So with this post I wonder if you're even watching the show because on this past week's show the drilling did hit "something". (please don't read that with malice)

As I've already said, I haven't seen the second season yet. If they dug up a treasure trove, feel free to let me know about the details. A treasure trove would be irrefutable evidence, in case you're wondering.

I have honest questions for you and Charlie.

I cannot answer for Charlie, but I can answer honestly for myself.

When did you start your interest in Oak Island?

Generally, as a child. I only started doing real research in the last year.

Have you actually studied Oak Island outside of this thread here?

Yes. In fact, I've provided information that was apparently unknown outside of this subforum in the past, so I'd say that I've certainly studied Oak Island outside of here.

Have you read any of the books or articles printed?

Possibly. Give me a list and I'll give you further answers. Let me qualify that by saying that if a book or an article is a load of crap, I'm going to call it as such. Just because someone wrote it, doesn't mean that it is.

Have you visited various websites about Oak Island?

More than you would believe. Again, I brought things here that were apparently unknown, and they were very easily found. This is one of the reasons why I'm skeptical not of the facts (although I certainly am), but of the amount of research that has been done by various forumites here. This was simple stuff. Someone should have caught it years before I happened along. Why didn't this happen?

Have you watched the History Channel TV show?
If so, how many? All?

Only the first season. I have absolutely no knowledge of the second season; you'll just have to believe me when I say that. I haven't even read about it, but I'm willing to read about it now. Did they find treasure?

I am more than happy to answer your questions. There's no need for thanks, although I do appreciate it. I wish you all a good day.
 

5ozbob

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HMMMM,,,, MOVED 40 TONS OF GOLD TO SAN DIEGO IN 1928?? SOUNDS LIKE QUITE A CHORE. AND ONLY HAD A FEW MILLION BUCKS LEFT IN 1998? HE MUST HAVE HAD A FULL TIME JOB JUST TRYING TO SPEND 40 TONS OF GOLD. THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN 39 PLUS TONS OF GOLD LEFT AT HIS DEATH.

PERSONALLY SAW 93,000,000 OUNCES OF GOLD BEING MOVED BY THE ARMY? IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW IF ANY OF THE SOLDIERS LOADING 93,000,000 OUNCES OF GOLD SAW IT? IT MUST HAVE TAKEN A WHOLE BRIGADE OF ENGINEERS. AND NO ONE HAS EVER MENTIONED IT. SO VERY INTERESTING THAT DOC NOSS A PROVEN SCAMMER PLUGGED THE ENTRANCE AND COULDN'T GET BACK INTO IT WITH SO MANY TONS OF GOLD. I WONDER IF FORT KNOX WOULD HAVE ROOM FOR AN EXTRA 3,875 TONS OF NEW FOUND GOLD? IT MUST HAVE BEEN ONE HELL OF A TRUCK. FORT KNOX ONLY HAS 4,600 TONS NOW.

THAT'S AN OLD STORY. EVERYONE AND HIS DOG HAS TRIED TO PROVE THAT THE STORY WAS TRUE AND NOT A SOLE HAS MANAGED TO PROVE ONE WORD OF IT BEING TRUE.

SO MANY TREASURE HUNTERS. SO LITTLE TREASURES FOUND. TO BAD.

To answer your question, YES. many people. And since I know the next question, one name is Willie Doughit (pronounced Doth-it). In 1928 he either deciphered a map or murdered a kid named Jack Reynolds who had deciphered a map. Willie and his friend Buster Ward found a cave in the Caballo Mountains in N.M. with over 2,000 x 40 pound gold bars. He was kidnapped twice and tortured by people trying to find the location of the cave. After the second kidnapping, he took all the gold he could manage, moved to San Diego. Changed his name to Lawrence Foreman, and lived there until his death in 1998. He never had a job from 1933 until 1998, but when he died, his estate was still $3.5 million (that may or may not include the $1.5 million in cash his girlfriend took from his home.

Milton Ernest "Doc" Noss, Supposedly using information from Willie's Map, Doc found a cave system in the San Andres Mountains in NM. In this cave were cases of jewels and old artifacts. In a lower cave were stacks of metal bars he thought were "pig iron". When he brought up one of those pig iron bars, he nicked an edge, and it turned out they were gold dore bars. Long story short, when trying to blast a boulder out of the cave for better access, he sealed it shut. Soon after, it became part of White Sands Missile Range. An MP Captain named Orby Swanner signed a notarized affidavit, stating that he was part of the military recovery team in 1961, and personally witnessed the military flatbed about 93,000,000 (yes 93 million) troy ounces of gold from Victorio Peak.

In Sonora, Mex. a friend of mine was contacted by a small town to help them decipher a letter left by a local military commander in 1723 that described (in code) how to find the wealth of a small mining town that was being abandoned due to hostile Indian attacks. We spent several months going over the letter and carvings on a low wall in the town. The first step to finding the wealth, was to find the mission bell.

View attachment 1081111 View attachment 1081112

Because the area in question for many years is being fought over by Narco Trafficers, and the corrupt nature of the Policia and Federales, they decided to keep everything under wraps. That was about seven years ago. I don't know what (if anything has happened since then).

...............and yes. Following a trail of signs cut into (and made out of) rocks, I found an old sealed Spanish mine. It was a very low grade gold sulphide vein that ran through it (which explains why the Spanish didn't work it to death). Due to the location, working (or claiming) it is impossible. But inside the mineshaft, I found a rotten leather sack with 22 gold and silver coins inside. The newest was 1788. Worth a total of about $20K. I kept a 1 Escudo Gold and an 8 Reale Silver. This was in 2000. I still carry the 8 reale every day.

I know of a bunch more, but for all intents and purposes, there is treasure out there to be found. You just have to get off your butts. HAHAHA

OH ........ and about the death traps. I have personally seen one in twenty-two years. I have pictures of another one that is beyond doubt authentic (it hid a rich gold mine in Mexico). I know a story about one in Spain in a tunnel under a castle.

Best - mike
 

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gollum

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HMMMM,,,, MOVED 40 TONS OF GOLD TO SAN DIEGO IN 1928?? SOUNDS LIKE QUITE A CHORE. AND ONLY HAD A FEW MILLION BUCKS LEFT IN 1998? HE MUST HAVE HAD A FULL TIME JOB JUST TRYING TO SPEND 40 TONS OF GOLD. THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN 39 PLUS TONS OF GOLD LEFT AT HIS DEATH.

PERSONALLY SAW 93,000,000 OUNCES OF GOLD BEING MOVED BY THE ARMY? IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW IF ANY OF THE SOLDIERS LOADING 93,000,000 OUNCES OF GOLD SAW IT? IT MUST HAVE TAKEN A WHOLE BRIGADE OF ENGINEERS. AND NO ONE HAS EVER MENTIONED IT. SO VERY INTERESTING THAT DOC NOSS A PROVEN SCAMMER PLUGGED THE ENTRANCE AND COULDN'T GET BACK INTO IT WITH SO MANY TONS OF GOLD. I WONDER IF FORT KNOX WOULD HAVE ROOM FOR AN EXTRA 3,875 TONS OF NEW FOUND GOLD? IT MUST HAVE BEEN ONE HELL OF A TRUCK. FORT KNOX ONLY HAS 4,600 TONS NOW.

THAT'S AN OLD STORY. EVERYONE AND HIS DOG HAS TRIED TO PROVE THAT THE STORY WAS TRUE AND NOT A SOLE HAS MANAGED TO PROVE ONE WORD OF IT BEING TRUE.

SO MANY TREASURE HUNTERS. SO LITTLE TREASURES FOUND. TO BAD.


Actually, I don't have a dog in that hunt whatsoever.

Everything you posted (and I mean EVERYTHING) shows a profound ignorance of everything we know today. To answer your question, yes, several of the men involved said that they witnessed and handled both ingots and boxes of jewelry. Not only soldiers and airmen at VP, but at the refineries where the gold was taken to be resmelted and refined into modern gold bars.

Tony Jolley went back and found one of (and possibly one other) the ten bar caches that he and Doc hid the night before Doc was murdered. That money is what he used to buy the ranch he left his son.

Whoever said Willie carried all the gold out of his cave? Willie Douthit left town in a hurry after his second kidnapping and torture. I doubt he took more than one or two bars with him. If you read the thread about him, you may see that had low paying menial jobs when he first moved to California until 1946, when they stopped listing his employment for some reason on the census. But in 1958, he paid over $7000 cash for 51 acres in the San Gabriel Mountains near L.A. And he still left an estate valued at $3.5 milion. His lady friend at the time made off with $1.5 million in cash.

........................ but ummmm, you just keep going ahead and believing what you want to.

Mike
 

miket156

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Dave Rishar

Although they came from a reality show (which I place little faith in), the whole coconut fiber found in the cove area was very interesting. THAT is where facts meet the tale. The tale is that the cove was dammed off and drained. A trench was dug, and a thick mat of coconut fiber was laid down. Over that was placed pieces of flat rock to form drains that led to whichever level it was of the Hole (10X). Over the years, many people have said that was all fantasy. On the show, they found coconut fiber right where it was supposed to be. Very good evidence was also shown that at one time the cove had been dammed off for some reason. The water in 10X raises and lowers with the tide. Die Bombs have been dropped into 10X and the die comes out not only from the cove, but two other places as well.

So, forget for a second all the stories of Cat Kidd, The Templars, The Masons, The Lost Tribe, Viking Hoards, etc. Just look objectively at what has been found. Does what was found support or oppose the story as told?

Mike

I thought it came up that it was the Swamp that was man made had been dammed and later drained. The Swamp had large pieces of wood/logs that may have been used to support a ship for repairs. Being that artifacts were found on the island from before the 18th century, it could be that the swamp was a man made dry dock to work on damaged wooden ships, and then re-floated when repairs were done. No dry docks in the New World at that time!

Just an idea of why either the swamp or the Cove where blocked from the Ocean.


Cheers!


Mike T.
 

Eldo

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Three more dry docks that are found in the area.....

One even features multiple jetties and piers made of stone.........if made naturally, they could be easily be drained and used for building ships. with plenty of trees on each of the islands shown with these features.

Interesting to note......these are found in areas that the waves could not affect their detail through erosion.....as they are sheltered and they are on the back sides of the islands, away from passing view, and from the currents and tides' direct flow.

These must be man made as there are multiple sized areas shown side by side, like a fleet port on one island, and a few others that show signs of these settlements with more appropriate areas for shipbuilding.......including logging strips of forest, and cutting channels through trees to make lines of sight.

What multi-taskers these guys were.

View attachment 1092224 View attachment 1092225 View attachment 1092226
 

Dave Rishar

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No dry docks in the New World at that time!

Correct I believe, but only because they weren't necessary.

Here's a question: what were drydocks necessary for during that time?
 

Jason in Enid

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Correct I believe, but only because they weren't necessary.

Here's a question: what were drydocks necessary for during that time?

The same thing as today, repairing the below-water portions of the ship. Wood-worms were a menace to ships back then. But they didn't make drydocks like that, they would have careened their ships to make the repairs in the new world.

I personally don't believe these have anything at all to do with "dry docking". The people claiming it MUST be man-made because there are logs in the bottom apparently have never seen how far a storm can move trees and how high waves can throw things.
 

Dave Rishar

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The same thing as today, repairing the below-water portions of the ship. Wood-worms were a menace to ships back then. But they didn't make drydocks like that, they would have careened their ships to make the repairs in the new world.

I personally don't believe these have anything at all to do with "dry docking". The people claiming it MUST be man-made because there are logs in the bottom apparently have never seen how far a storm can move trees and how high waves can throw things.

eec.jpg
 

Eldo

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The people claiming it MUST be man-made because there are logs in the bottom apparently have never seen how far a storm can move trees and how high waves can throw things.

I'm one of those people Jason.......

Docks don't carve themselves with the letter IV, nor do they notch and interlock floating at sea, or resting onshore

Sea you have done your research.....LOL

View attachment 1092861
 

gollum

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TAKE AWAY THAT MAN'S COOKIE!
 

O

Old Silver

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A storm built this? money-pit.gif What are you guys putting in those cookies?
 

Dave Rishar

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I'm one of those people Jason.......

Docks don't carve themselves with the letter IV, nor do they notch and interlock floating at sea, or resting onshore

Sea you have done your research.....LOL

View attachment 1092861

Which one of those pictures was that all found at?

TAKE AWAY THAT MAN'S COOKIE!

Not yet. He made a valid point that hasn't been refuted. The cookie is still conditionally offered.

A storm built this? View attachment 1093021 What are you guys putting in those cookies?

And where exactly has that been found?
 

O

Old Silver

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Which one of those pictures was that all found at?



Not yet. He made a valid point that hasn't been refuted. The cookie is still conditionally offered.



And where exactly has that been found?

Have a few more cookies and I'll tell you.
 

Charlie P. (NY)

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A storm built this? View attachment 1093021 What are you guys putting in those cookies?

A storm built what? A very nice, crisp drawing - but drawn by whom and when, and based on what evidence? That tree was gone before 1800. This is what it looks like now and anything below 100 ft is speculation because it was not found or sufficient speculation of any possibility in 1960's when a hole 100 ft deep and 100 ft wide was dug out without results and the huge excavaton hole refilled. Is there was evidence it is gone. But gone where? It's an island so whatever was pulled out should be there to examine. But NONE OF IT IS. No rock with code, no platform pieces, no nutin. Two pieces of wood with "IV" that may have been buried or o the surface or 50 ft to one side and graded into the hole when it was filled back in. The current bore samples are through 100 ft plus of rocks, stumps, topsoil, and whatever fill was available.

money-pit.gif
 

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O

Old Silver

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A storm built what? A very nice, crisp drawing - but drawn by whom and when, and based on what evidence? That tree was gone before 1800. This is what it looks like now and anything below 100 ft is speculation because it was not found or sufficient speculation of any possibility in 1960's when a hole 100 ft deep and 100 ft wide was dug out without results and the huge excavaton hole refilled. Is there was evidence it is gone. But gone where? It's an island so whatever was pulled out should be there to examine. But NONE OF IT IS. No rock with code, no platform pieces, no nutin. Two pieces of wood with "IV" that may have been buried or o the surface or 50 ft to one side and graded into the hole when it was filled back in. The current bore samples are through 100 ft plus of rocks, stumps, topsoil, and whatever fill was available.

View attachment 1093659

If I didn't know better, I'd think you're saying this should be on a board about LEGENDS. Is that what you're saying?
 

Eldo

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This is by far the most accurate diagram of the area as it exists today......love how you left little chunked up bits and pieces of Ark of the Covenant, The Torah, and the numerous other man made artifacts that have been
Sliced
Diced
and Pureed into oblivion
 

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