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Thread: “Oak Island” the “Strange”, the “Bizarre”, and “Maybe” the "Truth”!

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  1. #1696

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    And now to speak on the skeptic's behalf, for the above post :

    a) All of the prior post's starting points is merely "pointing to the legend to prove the legend itself" . Ie.: Circular. Can't anyone accept, for a moment, that *perhaps* parts (or all or most) of the "boy story" was subject to telephone game ? Embellishment as time went on? By sincere well-meaning treasure-fever people ?

    In fact, it's actually been SHOWN that some aspects of the story DIDN'T exist in the earliest tellings of the story. Thus Speculations on what someone muses, can later enter the story itself , upon further tellings. And Yes: I realize that a researcher can simply "toss out" those aspects as questionable, if they could acknowledge that they appear to be added. But doesn't that MERE FACT tell you/us that: Yes, the "game" is entirely possible ? Ie.: If you accept that some parts were evolved into it, then presto: So too could this phenomenon go all the way back to earlier times as well.

    b) And even if we accept the entire legend premise: Since when does all this (fibers, links, lights, etc...) , of necessity = "Treasure" ? Odd stuff happens all the time at oodles of places. Strange out of place squiggles or symmetrical designs, and square nails, etc... exist at tons of places. I could travel less than a mile from my house, and construct a similar story, with 100% real factors of "clues", "local history", etc...

    c) Speculations on possible passing wealth-laden ship route conspiracies: Can be said of ANY place where people historically lived, worked, & traveled. There can ALWAYS be *some possible reason* that someone could construct, of why it's entirely feasible that some treasure *can possibly* exist, at most any place where people historically lived and worked. Does that mean that, .... therefore.... there *IS* a treasure ? No ! Of course not.
    franklin and Caryl like this.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  2. #1697
    us
    Loki

    Dec 2014
    Traverse City, Mi.
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    Relic Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    And now to speak on the skeptic's behalf, for the above post :

    a) All of the prior post's starting points is merely "pointing to the legend to prove the legend itself" . Ie.: Circular. Can't anyone accept, for a moment, that *perhaps* parts (or all or most) of the "boy story" was subject to telephone game ? Embellishment as time went on? By sincere well-meaning treasure-fever people ?

    In fact, it's actually been SHOWN that some aspects of the story DIDN'T exist in the earliest tellings of the story. Thus Speculations on what someone muses, can later enter the story itself , upon further tellings. And Yes: I realize that a researcher can simply "toss out" those aspects as questionable, if they could acknowledge that they appear to be added. But doesn't that MERE FACT tell you/us that: Yes, the "game" is entirely possible ? Ie.: If you accept that some parts were evolved into it, then presto: So too could this phenomenon go all the way back to earlier times as well.

    b) And even if we accept the entire legend premise: Since when does all this (fibers, links, lights, etc...) , of necessity = "Treasure" ? Odd stuff happens all the time at oodles of places. Strange out of place squiggles or symmetrical designs, and square nails, etc... exist at tons of places. I could travel less than a mile from my house, and construct a similar story, with 100% real factors of "clues", "local history", etc...

    c) Speculations on possible passing wealth-laden ship route conspiracies: Can be said of ANY place where people historically lived, worked, & traveled. There can ALWAYS be *some possible reason* that someone could construct, of why it's entirely feasible that some treasure *can possibly* exist, at most any place where people historically lived and worked. Does that mean that, .... therefore.... there *IS* a treasure ? No ! Of course not.

    Of course there is some truth in all legends, but you would know that having attained the wealth you spoke of earlier!

    Cheers, Loki

  3. #1698
    us
    Jun 2012
    Garrett ADS-7X, Fisher Two Box M-Scope, Mother Lode Locator, Dowsing Model 20 Electroscope, White's TM808, White's TM900, Inground Scanners
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    With the sources that they have on "The Curse of Oak Island" you would think they could research archives and come up with documented proof. Something of a ship's log or a person that say they buried something of value on Oak Island. If the treasure was so large they would definitely want to come back and recover. I have been waiting patiently on Diana Muir's second book to see what Prince Henry Sinclair did on his voyage of 1399. I know speculators will say the journals are fictitious but I consider them a valuable source that needs checked out. Diana is going to put out 20 some odd volumes on the journals. Her next two is about Knight's Templar genealogy and that too I am interested in. I am trying to find a source that say someone stopped on Oak Island to bury a treasure. So far I have seen no evidence other than gematria proof made by Petter Admundsen. I would like to find another source or two to back up his claim. If there is any source to find?

    https://screenshots.firefox.com/8MR6...w.facebook.com
    Last edited by franklin; Feb 09, 2019 at 09:44 AM.

  4. #1699

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokiblossom View Post
    Of course there is some truth in all legends ....
    Sure. No good treasure legend ever started with "once upon a time". There's truth to all treasure legends. So the "faithful" will therefore think: "It's just a matter of sorting fact from fiction". Right ?

    However, if there's no treasure (the 1% conclusion) then: It won't matter how much sorting fact from fiction that people do.

    That's the failure of Oak Island phenomenon: People have KNOCKED THEMSELVES SILLY for 100 yrs. showing various aspects of the story to be TRUE (eg.: fiber buoyancy, ocean currents, the names of some boys and what color shirts they wore, etc...). And each time that some aspect turns out to be TRUE, then it seems to point all-the-more to "treasure", right ?

    But it fails to take into account that all-good-treasure legends are based on fact (names, dates, events, etc....). All of which can be "proven". Yet none of which necessarily means: "treasure"
    franklin and petetherocker like this.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  5. #1700

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    With the sources that they have on "The Curse of Oak Island" you would think they could research archives and come up with documented proof. ...
    To which they would say they HAVE got "documented proof" : The legend.
    franklin likes this.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  6. #1701
    Charter Member
    ca
    Mar 2014
    1,327
    853 times
    Oak Island Treasure

    What Was... These Freemason’s "Greatest Defense"... Used To Secure... Their Treasure?

    These Depositors of Oak Island, to insure their Treasure would be safe, built into their design all the Defense Systems possibly known to man.

    But…Their… Greatest One, which they noticed was used from the beginning of time and throughout all known Discoveries…Was the persuasive power… of Skeptics!

    From these Skeptic's rantings of…Stone Constructions weighing too much, Lost Cities covered in dust, to no Lost City could ever be built on top of a Mountain…It was Skeptics… who tried to discourage Searcher's efforts from locating Man's greatest achievements.

    The Depositors used their genius knowledge of these Skeptics’ Human Nature and knew how easy it would be to use them to secure their Treasure.

    All they had to do…was Throw them a Bone…and watch these…SkepticsChase Their Tails!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    will7782 and NostraDanis like this.
    The search for "Truth" and "Justice" is my "Prime Directive."

  7. #1702

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robot View Post
    These Depositors of Oak Island, to insure their Treasure would be safe, built into their design all the Defense Systems possibly known to man.

    But…Their… Greatest One, ....…Was the persuasive power… of Skeptics! ....

    You gotta hand it to those "depositors". They could plan 100 & 200 yrs. ahead, and foresee skeptics. That they then could stealthily use that to their benefit. Anticipating those skeptic's moves and inevitable habits, they could rely on skeptics like me, to dissuade people from believing/searching. Therefore: To throw people off track. All a part of the plan since the beginning. Pretty ingenious I'd say !

    Same for defense systems and booby traps . Of which no good legend would be without, and which made Raiders of the Lost Ark movie so fun ! If a TH'r ever encounters impossible obstacles (holes that fill with water, solid granite rock, etc...), it's ALL THE MORE proof of treasure. Because: Most certainly, that was all engineered to keep it away from would-be-TH'rs. Absolutely brilliant on the depositor's parts I must say.
    Robot, Steamboat and Caryl like this.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  8. #1703
    us
    Aug 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl-NC View Post
    That's not what a skeptic is, that would be an opponent.

    A skeptic is someone who is unconvinced by the available evidence.
    Please re-read my statement, then comment. No where did I say I was giving the definition of a skeptic.
    Bucket list still needed:
    • Silver thimble
    • Spanish silver
    • seated half
    • flying eagle
    • early copper
    • 1700's coin
    • 1600's coin
    • silver 3 cent piece
    • nickel 3 cent piece
    • seated quarter
    • capped bust silver
    • draped bust silver
    • silver dollar

  9. #1704
    us
    "Is that a Geiger Counter?"

    Feb 2006
    South Central Upstate NY in the foothills of the headlands
    Minelab Musketeer Advantage Pro w/8" & 10" DD coils/Fisher F75se(Upgraded to LTD2) w/11" DD, 6.5" concentric & 9.5" NEL Sharpshooter DD coils/Sunray FX-1 Probe & F-Point/Black Widows/Rattler headphone
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robot View Post
    TIt was Skeptics… who tried to discourage Searcher's efforts from locating Man's greatest achievements.
    Something exists or does not regardless of any skeptical opinion. I don't see how skepticism prevents anything. In fact, it is a alternative solution. A skeptic questions an opinion, and in research may prove or disprove something. That is the path to enlightenment. Perhaps it is the motivation needed to achieve the goal ("They laughed, they called me MAD! I'll show them! MWAHAHAHAHA!")

    Seems like it was peoples hard work that constructed these achievements. The builders knew right where they were and their exact location. ;-) And most that were "lost" were rediscovered by accident. I can think of one case (Troy) where a man persisted in spite of several contemporary skeptics opinion that he was searching for a fictional place.

    I don't think a good skeptic ever looked at a structure or monument and said "that doesn't exist".

    When someone else claims "that must have been built by aliens." THAT's when the skeptic has some traction.
    petetherocker and Tom_in_CA like this.
    America was founded by tough hell-raisers. Rugged citizens who evaded taxes, spoke strongly against tyranny, grew tobacco, brewed beer, distilled spirits, and smuggled weapons. And it will be saved by those same types of citizens.

  10. #1705

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robot View Post
    …It was Skeptics… who tried to discourage Searcher's efforts from locating Man's greatest achievements. .....
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie P. (NY) View Post
    .... A skeptic questions an opinion, and in research may prove or disprove something.....
    Charlie & Robot : Both sides are weighing the plausible options. Right ? And to the extent a skeptic might be WRONG (which, yes, is possible), yet on the other hand, he could be RIGHT. And if the skeptic were RIGHT, then he did a GREAT SERVICE , in alleviating silly-tail-chasing.

    Skepticism is beneficial to put TH'rs on real treasures, that have more plausibility. Thus rather than skepticism "tying our hands and preventing the finding of treasures", it actually INCREASES the potential for treasures to be found. In that persons would then spend time on treasures that have more potential to actually be real.
    Charlie P. (NY) likes this.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  11. #1706
    us
    "Is that a Geiger Counter?"

    Feb 2006
    South Central Upstate NY in the foothills of the headlands
    Minelab Musketeer Advantage Pro w/8" & 10" DD coils/Fisher F75se(Upgraded to LTD2) w/11" DD, 6.5" concentric & 9.5" NEL Sharpshooter DD coils/Sunray FX-1 Probe & F-Point/Black Widows/Rattler headphone
    10,487
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    Metal Detecting
    Agreed.

    But all it takes to satisfy a skeptic is evidence to the contrary. In the case of Oak Island: treasure.

    What does it take to satisfy the other guys? I would think they would also be satisfied with the treasure.

    So we are both seeking the same thing. What's the issue?

    And skepticism is specific - in this case to treasure on Oak Island. It is not a broad and general term. It's not like gender; where you are either male or female. ;-) It's more like modern gender identity where there are a dozen possibilities.
    Tom_in_CA likes this.
    America was founded by tough hell-raisers. Rugged citizens who evaded taxes, spoke strongly against tyranny, grew tobacco, brewed beer, distilled spirits, and smuggled weapons. And it will be saved by those same types of citizens.

  12. #1707

    Jan 2015
    Triad NC
    397
    240 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    The problem with "some" of the skeptics on here is they give their opinion as if it is a fact. Like they have all the knowledge of everything ever done on the island. The show finds something and gives a possible origin of it. Our skeptics immediately say they are laying, placed it, or that it is something else before giving the show a chance to really figure it out.. We all know there is no way to prove alot of the stuff on the island at this point. but our skeptics claim it is beyond a shadow of a doubt.. ( you know who that is ) Even you Charlie, was just telling ( in another thread ) how they could have used the boats mast to lower the treasure into a hole in smiths cove and not need to build anything to do it. BUT, then it was posted of course that there was no way for a big enough boat to get close enough to the edge of the water to use it's mast to do that... Yet your old post is still there is if it is a fact. Just bring in a big boat to 2' of water and use it's mast as a hoist. Yet it can't be done.. Don't get me wrong I like most of your posts and thought on here, but you see how easy it is for the skeptics to come across. It's like the "believers" not only have to figure out the real stuff but also debunk the skeptics along the way...
    b3y0nd3r and Charlie P. (NY) like this.

  13. #1708

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    n2mini, to address your post, point-by-point :

    Quote Originally Posted by n2mini View Post
    The problem with "some" of the skeptics on here is they give their opinion as if it is a fact. .....
    Really ? As an example to the contrary, look at my post # 1705 : See how I acknowledge the possibility that I/we could be wrong ? Stop and think for a moment on the VERY TERM I keep using all the time : "Most Plausible..". As you can see: The very definition of that term is to suggest "most likely". As opposed to "Absolutely Is" . And I've stated in prior posts that, yes, these are my "opinions". Which by inference implies exactly what the word "opinion" means: Just my opinion.

    Thus no: We (at least me anyhow) are not stating their "opinions as if it is facts". See ?

    Quote Originally Posted by n2mini View Post
    .... Like they have all the knowledge of everything ever done on the island....
    Ok. And why doesn't that finger point both ways ? The adherents, as well, do not have "all the knowledge of everything ever done on the island". So if this lack of omniscience disqualifies a skeptic from speaking, then why doesn't it equally stop the adherent from speaking ? See the double standard ?

    Quote Originally Posted by n2mini View Post
    .... skeptics immediately say they are laying, placed it, or ...
    Again: No. I have gone on record repeatedly saying there is no "lying" or planting going on. I have repeatedly said that all-parties involved are no doubt QUITE SINCERE. But sincere can also be "sincerely wrong". For example: In my example of the const. worker who was convinced gold had been found by an md'r @ a local site near me: At NO TIME was that worker "lying". It was all a matter of interpretation of data. Not "lying".
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  14. #1709

    Jan 2015
    Triad NC
    397
    240 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    As I said "some" I did not call you out. and I like you, I don't say the things I believe in as a fact unless it can be backed up. and I don't say the things they have found on the island mean much of anything. The believers only have what has been written over the years and that does not make anything a fact as we all know... but it is something and all we have to go on.. I hope that some of what has been written is true but who knows at this point.. There are some stuff that was written years ago that is true but that doesn't mean everything is... but surely you have read some posts of others that come across as if they are stating a fact and some even say that and we know it is not... Those are the ones I'm speaking of... You may not fall into that category..
    Tom_in_CA likes this.

  15. #1710
    us
    Aug 2011
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    1039 times
    Quote Originally Posted by n2mini View Post
    The problem with "some" of the skeptics on here is they give their opinion as if it is a fact. Like they have all the knowledge of everything ever done on the island. The show finds something and gives a possible origin of it. Our skeptics immediately say they are laying, placed it, or that it is something else before giving the show a chance to really figure it out.. We all know there is no way to prove alot of the stuff on the island at this point. but our skeptics claim it is beyond a shadow of a doubt.. ( you know who that is ) Even you Charlie, was just telling ( in another thread ) how they could have used the boats mast to lower the treasure into a hole in smiths cove and not need to build anything to do it. BUT, then it was posted of course that there was no way for a big enough boat to get close enough to the edge of the water to use it's mast to do that... Yet your old post is still there is if it is a fact. Just bring in a big boat to 2' of water and use it's mast as a hoist. Yet it can't be done.. Don't get me wrong I like most of your posts and thought on here, but you see how easy it is for the skeptics to come across. It's like the "believers" not only have to figure out the real stuff but also debunk the skeptics along the way...
    THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!

    Exactly my point to a "T"! MOST Skeptics never provide documented evidence(at least I've never seen it), they Just post conjecture.
    Bucket list still needed:
    • Silver thimble
    • Spanish silver
    • seated half
    • flying eagle
    • early copper
    • 1700's coin
    • 1600's coin
    • silver 3 cent piece
    • nickel 3 cent piece
    • seated quarter
    • capped bust silver
    • draped bust silver
    • silver dollar

 

 

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