Oak Island the Strange, the Bizarre, and Maybe the "Truth!

[lokiblossom]

Lol, you haven't convinced me of anything yet but keep trying.

It is documented that many Templars escaped France in 1307 to a relative early safety in England and later that year to Scotland. Those captured in England faced some five years of imprisonment and torture (look it up).

It is documented that the Templars had vessels in port in La Rochelle in 1307 (look it up).

It is also documented those vessels disappeared in 1307. There is testimony that Gerard Villiers led some of those vessels from port shortly before the arrests of the French Templars on October 13, 1307 (look it up).

It is documented that the Templars were called to France in early 1307 by their boss, the Pope (look it up).

There is documentation that coconut coir was used in all vessels of the Eastern Mediterranean where the Templars had been based in very early 1307 before being called to France and for the 200 years previously (look it up). It is certain they would have used the coir in their own vessels.

It is a known fact that coconut coir was not used anywhere else around the Mediterranean during that same period (look it up).

Coconut coir was found on Oak Island and dated by reliable sources to before the 14th century (this you already know ).

This is convincing evidence that the Templars visited Oak Island and in my own opinion actually proof of such a visit.

For treasure hunters, there are 10 easy to follow clues that eventually lead to an exact location near Annapolis Basin where I premise the Templars left an object they had recovered from the Cathar fortress of Monsegur on March 14, 1244.

There is no record of any vessels from any other nation visiting Oak Island before the 15th century, a voyage which any nation would have recorded as did Portugal when it began ocean exploration several years later (look it up). Even the Vikings left records of where they went (look it up).

Of course as anybody would understand the Templars running from certain imprisonment and torture left no record of where they went, but the fact is they did leave.

Also, you have claimed that Mediterranean galleys could not have made such a voyage, maybe, maybe not, but there were many other types of vessels in use besides these large galleys, such as the Mediterranean Caravel and its Muslim counterpart it had evolved from (look it up). There is no record of which type of vessels de Molay and his 60 knights with all their retinue and treasures sailed from Cyprus to France in obedience to the Pope's order.

Cheers, loki

Serious detractors would answer these statements point by point!

Cheers, Loki

 

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[ECS]

FILE UNDER:Simething Shakespeare Wrote

Serious detractors would answer these statements point by point!

Several us have, many times, many times over every time you post these nonrelated speculations as proof of a Templar voyage to Oak Island/Annapolis Basis, Nova Scotia.
Either you don't read or comprehend or just ignore our replies to your falsely fabricated fantasy facts nonsense alleging Templars with the Grail and other treasures arrived in the New World .
What comes to mind is a line from Macbeth's tomorrow speech, Act5, Scene 5:
"Its a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

 

[franklin]

lokiblossom, I comprehended this pretty well. I think ECS just called you an idiot.

 

[ECS]

lokiblossom, I comprehended this pretty well. I think ECS just called you an idiot.

Franklin, if you reread the quote from Macbeth, it refers to the "tale" the story, not to a person.
Your usual jump to conclusions concerning this quote either demonstrates that your comprehension is not as sharp as you believe, or your misrepresentation is an attempt to instigate an adversarial reaction to stir up controversy.

 

[DaveVanP]

I was wondering what type of ships this "Templar Fleet" would have been made up of....about the only vessels of any size would have been the Cog, or the Hulk, neither of which would have been suitable for a cross-Atlantic voyage. The Cog had a crew of about 20, and a burthen of about 40 tons. Strictly a coastal trading cargo vessel, it was not equipped for extended voyages, or for carrying passengers - although it could, at the expense of cargo, food and water. Normal provisioning was to carry enough food for the crew for 4 or 5 days. The Hulk was really only suitable for river travel, as it was more or less no more than a flat-bottomed barge, usually requiring to be towed, although some were equipped with masts and sails. It would easily founder at sea. Caravels, Carracks, and the Mediterranean Xebec would not been seen in the Med for another 150-200 years. The ship most likely used by Templars, and what made up their "18 ship fleet" (although only 4 ships can be DOCUMENTED as being in possession by the Order) were likely galleys (not "galiots", which were 15th century), suited ONLY for coastal travel, as they did not carry enough water and food than for more than a few days. They were unsuitable for open-water voyages, even within the Mediterranean. Sailing around the boot of Italy from France in 1300 would have been as perilous as "rounding the horn" 500 years later. Their shallow draft and low freeboard would not allow them to survive heavy seas...certainly not the Atlantic in the Autumn/Winter of 1307...

 

[Ryano]

People said the same about Heyerdahl and the Kon-Tiki too, and others have since travelled much further on balsa rafts. Just saying..

 

[DaveVanP]

Heyerdahl was not transporting a couple hundred men, and tons of treasure, either, nor did he make (or plan) a return voyage to South America.
If you read his book, you know the Kon Tiki came apart when it struck a reef on Raroia Island, 750 miles NE from Tahiti.
The consensus of anthropologists of his voyage is that "it proves it is possible, but no evidence suggests such a voyage was likely."

People have crossed the Atlantic Ocean in kayaks, canoes, even bathtubs...saying something CAN be done is 1000 miles away from proving that it WAS done.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Dave, don't be so technically correct, you take all of the fun out of day dreaming. But you are so right.

 

[lokiblossom]

Lol, you haven't convinced me of anything yet but keep trying.

It is documented that many Templars escaped France in 1307 to a relative early safety in England and later that year to Scotland. Those captured in England faced some five years of imprisonment and torture (look it up).

It is documented that the Templars had vessels in port in La Rochelle in 1307 (look it up).

It is also documented those vessels disappeared in 1307. There is testimony that Gerard Villiers led some of those vessels from port shortly before the arrests of the French Templars on October 13, 1307 (look it up).

It is documented that the Templars were called to France in early 1307 by their boss, the Pope (look it up).

There is documentation that coconut coir was used in all vessels of the Eastern Mediterranean where the Templars had been based in very early 1307 before being called to France and for the 200 years previously (look it up). It is certain they would have used the coir in their own vessels.

It is a known fact that coconut coir was not used anywhere else around the Mediterranean during that same period (look it up).

Coconut coir was found on Oak Island and dated by reliable sources to before the 14th century (this you already know ).

This is convincing evidence that the Templars visited Oak Island and in my own opinion actually proof of such a visit.

For treasure hunters, there are 10 easy to follow clues that eventually lead to an exact location near Annapolis Basin where I premise the Templars left an object they had recovered from the Cathar fortress of Monsegur on March 14, 1244.

There is no record of any vessels from any other nation visiting Oak Island before the 15th century, a voyage which any nation would have recorded as did Portugal when it began ocean exploration several years later (look it up). Even the Vikings left records of where they went (look it up).

Of course as anybody would understand the Templars running from certain imprisonment and torture left no record of where they went, but the fact is they did leave.

Also, you have claimed that Mediterranean galleys could not have made such a voyage, maybe, maybe not, but there were many other types of vessels in use besides these large galleys, such as the Mediterranean Caravel and its Muslim counterpart it had evolved from (look it up). There is no record of which type of vessels de Molay and his 60 knights with all their retinue and treasures sailed from Cyprus to France in obedience to the Pope's order.

Cheers, loki

Still no good answer for these statements, lol!

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

I was wondering what type of ships this "Templar Fleet" would have been made up of....about the only vessels of any size would have been the Cog, or the Hulk, neither of which would have been suitable for a cross-Atlantic voyage. The Cog had a crew of about 20, and a burthen of about 40 tons. Strictly a coastal trading cargo vessel, it was not equipped for extended voyages, or for carrying passengers - although it could, at the expense of cargo, food and water. Normal provisioning was to carry enough food for the crew for 4 or 5 days. The Hulk was really only suitable for river travel, as it was more or less no more than a flat-bottomed barge, usually requiring to be towed, although some were equipped with masts and sails. It would easily founder at sea. Caravels, Carracks, and the Mediterranean Xebec would not been seen in the Med for another 150-200 years. The ship most likely used by Templars, and what made up their "18 ship fleet" (although only 4 ships can be DOCUMENTED as being in possession by the Order) were likely galleys (not "galiots", which were 15th century), suited ONLY for coastal travel, as they did not carry enough water and food than for more than a few days. They were unsuitable for open-water voyages, even within the Mediterranean. Sailing around the boot of Italy from France in 1300 would have been as perilous as "rounding the horn" 500 years later. Their shallow draft and low freeboard would not allow them to survive heavy seas...certainly not the Atlantic in the Autumn/Winter of 1307...

The Templars had one of the largest fleets of various vessels in the Mediterranean, you evidently don't look into the information you base your arguments on. Probably not related, but do you know how big some of the Mediterranean galleys were?

"Circa 1492 Art in the Age of Exploration" tells us that towards the end of the 13th century ships began to regularly sail around the Iberian Peninsula, rather then ending their voyage in southern France and consigning their cargoes to overland transport.

Michael Haag writes that, "the Templars built ships in European Ports, everywhere between Spain and the Dalmation coast"!

Piers Paul Read writes "It was in the month of May AD1218 that the galleys of the Templars set sail from Acre"!

Addison writes about the arming of the galleys, galliots and other vessels of the Order to oppose the Saracens in 1222"!

Addison again writes "in 1244 the galleys of the Order kept command of the sea"!

Read again writes, " In 1274 at the Council of Lyons, the Templars were ordered to build a fleet of warships with the purpose of blockading Egyptian ports."!

Read again, "Cargo ships were built to carry the Templars cargos and in 1293 six galleys were purchased from Venice. These formed part of a fleet that in July 1300 made a number of raids on the coasts of Egypt and Syria, and in November, transported a force of 600 knights to Ruad"!

And how about their commercial operations at La Rochell, a port the Templars basically owned since 1139?
Evelyn Lord writes, "Their main fleet was at La Rochelle, and it was this fleet. based away from the theatre of war, that was part of the maritime network linking the Order in the British Isles, with the continent"!

The fact is that the Templars had kept a substantial fleet in the Mediterranean consisting of many different types of vessels including a type of Caravel which the Muslims had already used for years.

As for sailing around the Iberian Peninsula, don't forget that in the late 12th century, Richard the Lionheart had sent his whole British fleet around the Iberian!

The voyage from Scotland to North America using Norse routes involves nothing much over 250 miles legs which translates to about 4-5 days. During the period we are discussing, the early 14th century, it is well documented that the Norse were still making the voyage!

Cheers, Loki

 

[DaveVanP]

Lol, you haven't convinced me of anything yet but keep trying.

It is documented that many Templars escaped France in 1307 to a relative early safety in England and later that year to Scotland. Those captured in England faced some five years of imprisonment and torture (look it up). I looked it up. They were in England and Scotland. Not North America.

It is documented that the Templars had vessels in port in La Rochelle in 1307 (look it up). I looked it up. They had a documented four vessels in La Rochelle in 1307. No record of where they went.

It is also documented those vessels disappeared in 1307. There is testimony that Gerard Villiers led some of those vessels from port shortly before the arrests of the French Templars on October 13, 1307 (look it up). I looked it up. Yes, they disappeared. No record of what happened to them

It is documented that the Templars were called to France in early 1307 by their boss, the Pope (look it up). I looked it up. Yes, several of the high-ranking Templars were recalled to France in 1307.

There is documentation that coconut coir was used in all vessels of the Eastern Mediterranean where the Templars had been based in very early 1307 before being called to France and for the 200 years previously (look it up). It is certain they would have used the coir in their own vessels. I looked it up. Coconut fiber was used in the eastern Mediterranean region for making rope and caulking, by nearly EVERY region that built boats, not just the Templars, who bought their boats, not build them. Templars WERE NOT the single, exclusive users of coconut coir.

It is a known fact that coconut coir was not used anywhere else around the Mediterranean during that same period (look it up). Coconut coir was found on Oak Island and dated by reliable sources to before the 14th century (this you already know ). I looked it up. Coconut coir was in use in the building of boats and cordage in many places besides the eastern Mediterranean, even before the time of Christ; India, Indonesia, Polynesia, Australia, New Zealand...even the Pacific Northwest. NONE of the coconut fiber/coir samples found at Oak Island have been identified as to what species it may be, or determined that it IS of Mediterranean origin.

This is convincing evidence that the Templars visited Oak Island and in my own opinion actually proof of such a visit. "Evidence" indicates ONLY they COULD have. Proof would possibly indicate that they DID. So far, NO proof has been found, only "some evidence"... and there is MORE weight of evidence supporting the fantasy of Phoenicians visiting North America than that supporting a Templar visit.

For treasure hunters, there are 10 easy to follow clues that eventually lead to an exact location near Annapolis Basin where I premise the Templars left an object they had recovered from the Cathar fortress of Monsegur on March 14, 1244.

There is no record of any vessels from any other nation visiting Oak Island before the 15th century, a voyage which any nation would have recorded as did Portugal when it began ocean exploration several years later (look it up). Even the Vikings left records of where they went (look it up). I looked it up. Most people who travelled DID record their travels, or the observations of others travelling...except NO ONE documented the Templars travelling to North America, not even the Templars themselves. And it is true - there is NO historically reliable record of ANY vessels from ANY nation AT ALL prior to the 15th Century, other than the Viking Sagas.

Of course as anybody would understand the Templars running from certain imprisonment and torture left no record of where they went, but the fact is they did leave. I looked it up (even though you didn't say to)...Pope Clement absolved all Templars in 1308 and disbanded the Order in 1312, and the Templars' holdings - and most of the Members - were absorbed into the Order of Christ in 1319. Those that didn't join the OoC, or joined other Orders, or were imprisoned or executed...there is NOTHING to say what happened to them, if anything.

Also, you have claimed that Mediterranean galleys could not have made such a voyage, maybe, maybe not, but there were many other types of vessels in use besides these large galleys, such as the Mediterranean Caravel and its Muslim counterpart it had evolved from (look it up). There is no record of which type of vessels de Molay and his 60 knights with all their retinue and treasures sailed from Cyprus to France in obedience to the Pope's order. I looked it up. (didn't really have to, as my Major was Naval Archaeology, so I am very familiar with historical naval design.) The caravel and carrack, which evolved from the cog, and the Arab dhow and Xebec, which evolved from the Nava, (the Nava was a sort of sailing LST, with a drop-down ramp in the bow, You can see them in the Russell Crowe version of "Robin Hood".) were not in use in the Mediterranean until mid-1400's and later. Galleys were mentioned before, because they were the MOST seaworthy vessels of the time, and capable of carrying several (20-30) passengers and 50-80 tons of cargo (usually not both.)

Cheers, loki

Good day to you.

 

[ECS]

...
There is no record of any vessels from any other nation visiting Oak Island before the 15th century, a voyage which any nation would have recorded as did Portugal when it began ocean exploration several years later (look it up). Even the Vikings left records of where they went (look it up)...

There is NO RECORD of a Templar vessel visiting Oak Island beyond the creative imaginative speculation of the pulp quasi historian authors and their followers that believe their pseudohistory is based real authenticated researched, as you mentioned, recorded historical events.

 

[ECS]

.
The Templar story is very complicated and you mix up elements at will to try to make a point..

As you do with all these random quotes from Addison, Haag, Lord , Read, and whomever that have no bearing on whether the Templars ever made a voyage to Nova Scotia.
Why don't you post a quote from one of the above that states that Templars sailed to Oak Island/Annapolis Basin, Nova Scotia for the sole purpose of burying treasure AND where did they go afterwards?

 

[gazzahk]

that states that Templars sailed to Oak Island

It must be true The Search for the Holy Grail in Nova Scotia This recovered webpage on the INTERNET says it happened. Evryone knows.... There is no "fake news" on the internet.. and this is from 1999 so that is an ancient historical source....

People will believe any lie for one of two reasons.

1. They want it to be true
2. They are afraid it is true

These myths being discussed have been around for a very long time that is what gives them the veneer of credibility. It is why we know that the Lochness monster and bigfoot are real. They are possibly even alien creatures. Why else would so much have been written about them over the ages?

If you disagree... PROVE to me Bigfoot does not exist....

I have photographic proof for these creatures..

 

[DaveVanP]

It looks like BF is flipping us the Bird...

 

[sasquash]

 

[ECS]

Is GLOOSCAP a common surname among the Sasquash?

 

[Crow]

Gee never saw a thread going around around in circles. Makes old Crows bird brain dizzy. I recon if I come back two years from now it will be still the same old same old. Never seen a subject become more like a soap opera. Same stuff just different actors.

Gotta get off this magic roundabout....

Crow

 

[ECS]

OLD CROW also makes one's brain dizzy.

 

[Crow]

View attachment 1852476

Gee who stole my selfie? That picture looks like me when I wake up in morning.

Stay covid safe amigos.

Crow