lokiblossom
Bronze Member
Didn't get back yet and that book needed some adjustments. I did complete two other history books though with one other in the oven, so to speak!
Cheers, Loki
Nolans Cross points to Bornholm, Denmark
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Didn't get back yet and that book needed some adjustments. I did complete two other history books though with one other in the oven, so to speak!
Cheers, Loki
Zom
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I'd been reviewing old seasons of Curse.... and I thought there was mention of the "face stone" having been moved. Then there's the question whether any analysis of the stone proved it to have been carved into a "face" as opposed to being a projection.
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The New Ross foolishness has been completely debunked by researchers. Someone has their undergraduate paper online that links to all of that inquiry. It's more Templar BS with a Henry Sinclair twist.
That's true, but that was relayed to us as early as the 1840s in Thomas Haliburton's work, but he does suggest there is still something of a mystery there. If you read him you can get a sense for what he's hinting at. There are older myths that are being pointed to with the earliest OI stories and I suspect they are part of an allegorical suggestion. The place itself has been given the symbolic linkages to make it useful to retell stories. I urge anyone who is serious about OI to read "The Old Judge" and work out what is given. It's a work that demands some study and it is loaded with symbolism, and it is itself an allegory. OI fits in stories whose intent can be appreciated. I don't think it ever was about a physical treasure. The work predates the earliest documented searcher activity on OI. It's possible it even was the driving force for later searches there. The complete OI story cannot be told without talking about Haliburton, and he has so far not received any consideration. Part of why is because he immediately devalues the search for treasure.
Zom
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Is this it? https://books.google.com/books?id=D...e&q=Thomas Haliburton "the old judge"&f=false
One can search the book and I find no reference oak island
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Why exactly are you looking at Cygnus? Cygnus matters because of it's declination which has always been associated with 40 degree N. There it ends. If it is navigation to OI by star you want then that's given to you by sailing to Deneb's latitude and fixing your longitude with Albireo by a method that was devised not before Tudor times. This gets you to Mahone Bay within eye sight of mainland if you plot star coordinates with an epoch calculator using ca. 1625. This is in fact what Bacon has given without saying he ever visited the place. The suggestion is he knew of the place, and that is fine because he had affairs in these parts and the means to have known. He does also give a graphic likeness of the island in Sylva Sylavrum. This is enough for anyone to have picked upon it, and some did, notably George Starkey in the mid 1600s. It's likely Starkey went looking for this island in and around 1650, with an emphasis on witnessing a solar eclipse that was to coincide with Sunrise in 1651 in Atlantic Canada. You can look that one up in NASA's records. In my opinion Bacon never visited the place. It was latched on afterwards as being part of some misunderstood mystery. By all appearances he gets involved indirectly again later when Scottish Rite freemasonry gets established in NS around 1758. The way the land grant that includes OI was surveyed in 1762 shows the desire to involve 40 in the planning. A map dating to ca 1755 of the Mahone Bay area shows OI crudely drawn and placed at declination 40 degrees in relation to the map directionals given.
Nolan's cross and the stone triangle pointer both are related to the main survey line on OI which is laid down in or after 1762. Nolan's cross' shape is a cue, but it is its proportion and it's angle of inclination in relation to the main survey line that are the notable things to appreciate. Nolan's cross is in proportion 5 by 8=40.
Details in the OI mythology continuously echo the value of 40. There are 40 characters in the 90 foot stone that are in 8 groups. The lots on OI are laid down 40 degrees E of N1762. Thomas Halliburton goes out of his way to inform readers it's about 40. I could go on and on, but I suggest you not dismiss Cygnus. He is part of the symbolism.
For those who are interested in terrestrial alignments, Bacon does give you one to verify for yourself. It appears on the globe with the terrestrial locations of OI and the point equivalent to the constellation Triangulum, or the Mitre of St Peter as it was once called. It verifies easily enough. You will find it threads between the Pillars of Herculese, which Bacon illustrated where he gives his best indications of his knowledge of this island in NS.
This is very likely not a Bacon involvement story, though. It's masonic and colonial. It's reprising what was known to exist and making it into something more. The OI mystery belongs to Freemasons in my opinion. They laid down there a story surrounding Enoch's myth, which is dear to them. It is why many of the earliest details are taken from this myth (3 men, platforms, stone, depth...). I'd like to take credit for all this, but it's something people knew at least 170 years ago. It just needs to be rediscovered and put back together in context. In my opinion it starts with Haliburton. He knew things before searcher activities that were not suggested for another 50 years, and he also suggested people would die looking for a treasure in Chester Bay because they did not know what they were looking for. He points everyone to German Saxony to get their bearings, a place that is an important spot in the story of freemasonry. The MP solves out to be the Wisdom spot in a tree of life representation that many want to place on OI and have no great fit for. It's there and it's inclined 40 degrees E of N. It's a fun mystery, but you ain't getting rich with it. In essence what is there can be discovered elsewhere in books.
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Al D
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Please explain how Sir Francis Bacon, who died in 1628, could have had anything to do with an alleged treasure buried in 1398, was he a time traveller?
gazzahk
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ECS
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Who are "they" that conferred with Sir Francis Bacon and who are the "they" that still knew where it was located?
I'm only reporting what has been written and given before there were ever searcher events on OI. Bacon is being implicated, and that is it...until such a point that anyone proves otherwise. Haliburton's family in England became great Bacon scholars. They founded the "Francis Bacon Society". His niece Constance Mary Fearon Pott wrote many books exploring the allegations around Bacon. I don't think it is possible to separate OI from Francis Bacon suggestions in 19th century Nova Scotia. If wasn't long after Pott's first successful book about Bacon as Shakespeare that OI searchers are reporting finding parchment and a vault of documents. What little detail searchers could infer about Bacon stories they developed as they saw fit. Halliburton doesn't tell you Bacon is himself involved. He tells you there's something at work there that has historical connection to Bacon. The OI story, stripped clear, of all its confusing misinterpretations is really an acknowledgement by NS Scottish Rite Freemasons that they have a connection to Bacon. They happened to demonstrate things on an island Bacon knew of and that he referred to. To look into what Bacon saw of interest with this place is another story. It has a lot to do with events that had not occurred yet when he died. The solar eclipse of 1651 was forecast, as were many others. That one interested him because there was going to be a marriage of Sun and Moon at Sunrise--a pretty rare event, and a symbolic one. There's an allegory of the marriage of the Sun and the moon circulating around Europe that is claiming to be tied to Bacon and John Dee, among others. There is no treasure on OI. It was hypothesized it was a place of forthcoming "projection". That's why you get the myths of Enoch and Elijah in the OI stories. Both these men had ascended directly to heaven from such a place. When the alchemist George Starkey went looking for this place he saw it as the equivalent of the Philosopher's stone. There's a decent historical account here to follow this with. It dabbles in the esoteric and ideas that aren't in vogue today, but that was then. More and more we are discovering why it was that the the OI position computed as interesting to some people. Like I said before, that's just used again later by people in 1762.
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Is that for me?
Bacon hid only superficially that he knew of the OI location. The American George Starkey at Harvard had studied Dee and Bacon in an attempt to locate the "mystery" that had been alleged to be included in the posthumous work Sylva Sylvarum put together by Rawley. Starkey never found what HE was looking for, but he likely discovered part of what was being given. The interpretation of it all is still up in the air. The fact that Bacon knew of the OI location is something I am satisfied with after looking into it for over 2 years. I can't describe here why and how to anyone's satisfaction, so I can only urge you to look into it if you are interested in killing the idea critically. Don't be quick to shut this suggestion down, though. This does not suggest a treasure, or anything of any worth on OI. It doesn't even implicate Bacon with the later events. Bacon is just someone who gets hauled into something else because of who he was and the things attributed to him. You can contact me if you want some direction.
ECS
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Constance Mary Fearon Pott (1833-1915) is not the most accurate or reliable source of "great Bacon scholars", claiming that by "deciphering" Francis Bacon's Elizabethan handwriting, she found similar figures of speech and ideas of Bacon in the works of Shakespeare.
Often citing her own previous works as proof that Bacon wrote the Shakespeare plays, Pott never took into consideration that Bacon's literary style was nothing like Shakespeare's, whose works were filled with anachronisms and historical errors, AND during that period, collaboration between the London playwrights was the norm, sharing story ideas and such for the "pop" entertainment of the time.
Francis Bacon did have a connection to the "New World" having submitted an article to King James I on the Virginia colony and receiving a King's Charter to establish a colony on Newfoundland, NOT Nova Scotia, and sent his representative, John Grey, to do such.
That colony project was abandoned after two years, due to several pirate looting raids.
She's not mentioning Bacon in an allegory written about OI before there was searcher activity there. Constance was a child when Bacon lived with that family in London. I point out only to show that the family was obsessed with Bacon. Haliburton actually spent a lot of time with his cousin James Burton while in London. A lot of the esoteric connections I believe come from him. He was a well known early Egyptogologist. His father, and T.C Haliburton's uncle is buried in a pyramid mausoleum in England.
Nothing that Pott ever wrote concerns OI, as far as I can tell. Haliburton wrote his allegory around the number 40 and this is a common thing with Bacon-Shakespeare suggestions later. In a chicken and egg conundrum I would suggests that Bacon received his ideas from his cousin and that some of that bled into Constance's "work" later. I am in no way giving credence to her speculations. Those are what they are. Haliburton's allegory is rich in OI references. It doesn't read as a historical account, though. You must be able to piece together what he means over and over because everything's a symbol in that work. Even the character names are symbols. They are almost always puns and anagrams. I suggest giving it a go if you like literary exercises. Like I said, it may come up empty for you on first read. If you can read chapter 10 and take from it that he's replaying Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress then you should be able to extract a lot out of chapter 1,4 and 9. I do not know how much he influenced searchers after the publication of the work in 1845, but we do know that it is true that Bacon entered the narrative a mere 3 years after Pott attained success with her widely discussed theories. I do think that it sent some people looking back to "The Old Judge" after. Bacon ideas have been a fixture pretty much ever since. It was a real revelation to me that some of this could be traced back to pre 1848-49 searcher activities. This particular Haliburton work is not widely known outside of Novas Scotia. It is usually described as peculiarly anecdotal. That is because most of the literary field has never recognized its allegorical content. I wouldn't expect them to. You have to know the earliest OI stories to see what is being done with great cleverness.
Nothing that Pott ever wrote concerns OI, as far as I can tell. Haliburton wrote his allegory around the number 40 and this is a common thing with Bacon-Shakespeare suggestions later. In a chicken and egg conundrum I would suggests that Bacon received his ideas from his cousin and that some of that bled into Constance's "work" later. I am in no way giving credence to her speculations. Those are what they are. Haliburton's allegory is rich in OI references. It doesn't read as a historical account, though. You must be able to piece together what he means over and over because everything's a symbol in that work. Even the character names are symbols. They are almost always puns and anagrams. I suggest giving it a go if you like literary exercises. Like I said, it may come up empty for you on first read. If you can read chapter 10 and take from it that he's replaying Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress then you should be able to extract a lot out of chapter 1,4 and 9. I do not know how much he influenced searchers after the publication of the work in 1845, but we do know that it is true that Bacon entered the narrative a mere 3 years after Pott attained success with her widely discussed theories. I do think that it sent some people looking back to "The Old Judge" after. Bacon ideas have been a fixture pretty much ever since. It was a real revelation to me that some of this could be traced back to pre 1848-49 searcher activities. This particular Haliburton work is not widely known outside of Novas Scotia. It is usually described as peculiarly anecdotal. That is because most of the literary field has never recognized its allegorical content. I wouldn't expect them to. You have to know the earliest OI stories to see what is being done with great cleverness.
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Here's the complete searchable book.
https://archive.org/details/oldjudgeorlifein01hali_0/page/n15
Emphasize chapters 1,4,9 and 10. Chapter 1 is loaded to get you on your way. It's super short, but it is jam packed with inferences that are necessary to understand. Consider all the names given. They are puns and they have relevant anagrams. Pay close attention to the religious references and try and understand why they are given. If you can't, keep them in mind, as they will resurface later. The chapter that is the closest to the idea of treasure in Chester Bay is Chapter 9. Keep the numbers in mind when you read also. He's going heavy into numerology. The book chapters are laid out with a Pythagorean numbering scheme. Keep in mind that no one has yet died on OI yet, but that he suggests that men will die looking for treasure in the wrong place if they don't understand what they are looking for. The hero in the story dies on Tancook island, which is a real island in Chester Bay. It's the symbol of the wrong place for the wrong reason. That has always left readers wondering what the right place for the right reason is.
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I answered above without quoting you. we' re in complete agreement about the last part. He never made it to the New World himself. His Newfoundland interests were at the Cupper's Cove colony and his Virginian ones were at Jamestown. Bacon's knowledge of the OI position does not come from him having explored. However, he did show that he had valued the alignment of the positions that have the property of having in Zenith the constellations Cygnus and the Miter of St Peter (Triangulum today). The OI location is just the projection of the Trinagulum terrestrial point through the Pillars of Hercules to the NA coast at Nova Scotia. If you want to begin to understand why Bacon was interested in Triangulum it has to do with the symbolism attached to Saint Anthony. Why he focused on this Saint is debatable, but there is likely a link to Bacon's very close relation to his brother Anthony. There still exist today monks of an order in a lineage directly from Saint Anthony. They still use the miter atop the head and the cross as their two symbols. You will recognize here the fact that on both sides of Bacon's interest in the alignment presented to eagle eyed observers are constellations that are associated with these symbols. Cygnus is known as the Northern cross, Triangulum as the Miter of St Peter (then). In my opinion the OI area is only of interest because of symbolic reasons. Bacon would have had a curiosity for the location. In my opinion any island could have been selected to represent this, but it was one of the largest that ultimately was. Bacon knew of the island, IMO, because gives us an indication he knows its shape. There are elements to this we will never know, but there are things we can show. One of them is that Mahone Bay was of interest to him. We do know that Bacon had access to all of Elizabeth's maps and charts also. It is not in lacking of intelligence about the coast of NS that we can assault this.
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Zom
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