The Knights Templar connection to Oak Island Challenge

[ECS]

No, your wrong again...

It is very amusing that one who constantly tells others they are wrong has never been proven right.

 

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[ECS]

... In the "Tales of Orkney, the fudel rights and the odal wrongs", it was said that SinClair and his group "retraced" his ancestor foot steps in their journey west...

While on the subject of "tales", a plethora of pseudo history of the Templars in America books exist for sale, all claiming to be based on "facts". In many instances, the "facts" are real, but the connected conclusions to the Templars being in America, are not.
A prime example of this manipulation of facts to fit speculation is "TEMPLARS IN AMERICA" by Tim Wallace-Murphy & Marilyn Hopkins published in 2004.
Cashing in on the "Templar craze", they trace Templar contact with the Canadian Indian tribes to George Washington and the Founding Fathers of the United States with the statement, " the access to the facts was restricted or forbidden for centuries, UNTIL NOW".
Restricted forbidden facts revealed for the first time with footnotes provided for these facts that are used to make nebulous connection that further fraudulent misguided conclusions of piled on speculation based on "secret families of Templars and Freemasons".
As stated by the authors:
"Freemasonry is an offshoot...derived from the Knights Templar and...formed by the secret families. The family that played a major role in that, were of course, the Sinclairs of Rosslyn".
The Sinclairs, of course there is always a Sinclair in these tales, and a Venetian trader are involved in the Templars coming to America in this fantasy fodder fabricated from factual fallacies.

 

[sasquash]

While on the subject of "tales", a plethora of pseudo history of the Templars in America books exist for sale, all claiming to be based on "facts". In many instances, the "facts" are real, but the connected conclusions to the Templars being in America, are not.
A prime example of this manipulation of facts to fit speculation is "TEMPLARS IN AMERICA" by Tim Wallace-Murphy & Marilyn Hopkins published in 2004.
Cashing in on the "Templar craze", they trace Templar contact with the Canadian Indian tribes to George Washington and the Founding Fathers of the United States with the statement, " the access to the facts was restricted or forbidden for centuries, UNTIL NOW".
Restricted forbidden facts revealed for the first time with footnotes provided for these facts that are used to make nebulous connection that further fraudulent misguided conclusions of piled on speculation based on "secret families of Templars and Freemasons".
As stated by the authors:
"Freemasonry is an offshoot...derived from the Knights Templar and...formed by the secret families. The family that played a major role in that, were of course, the Sinclairs of Rosslyn".
The Sinclairs, of course there is always a Sinclair in these tales, and a Venetian trader are involved in the Templars coming to America in this fantasy fodder fabricated from factual fallacies.

Could you elaborate on these plethora of pseudo history of the Templars in America books ?
I have a few and maybe want a few other.

 

[treasure1822]

Robert the Bruce enlisted the help of 25,000 Templar's in regaining Scotland's Independence from England...that's in the history books. Rossilyn Chapel is real, as well as the carvings in it, there is nothing "Pseudo" about that. I haven't heard of any mass suicide of Templar's in the analog of history. So where did they go? I can't imagine a group of knight's would throw up their hand and say "I'm out", after making it to Scotland and battling English knights. Going "Underground" as it were makes the most sense, and allowing the name of "knight's Templar" to fade in history. Your saying that it is all, in your words "FODDER" because no one kept notes that we have seen. Would you be the one to document these things if you swore an oath to keep their secrets, how could you guarantee the security of the information? And who is to say that these events are not recorded, it is not impossible for secret to be kept...My own boss is a Mason, and I can't get him to tell me anything and if he did there was something about me being "Drawn and Quartered". I would have laugh it of if but there was something about his side eye'd look and devilish grin that stopped me from pursuing further. The "Fact" is we are piecing together a legend from minuscule information at hand, sometimes there is no box to think out of, you just have to go with what sound right.

 

[lokiblossom]

It is very amusing that one who constantly tells others they are wrong has never been proven right.

I have always wrote "evidence", the proof will be coming soon enough! And, I don't tell others they are wrong, only you!

What did you mean by "I do have an opinion concerning Lincoln's work"?

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

While on the subject of "tales", a plethora of pseudo history of the Templars in America books exist for sale, all claiming to be based on "facts". In many instances, the "facts" are real, but the connected conclusions to the Templars being in America, are not.
A prime example of this manipulation of facts to fit speculation is "TEMPLARS IN AMERICA" by Tim Wallace-Murphy & Marilyn Hopkins published in 2004.
Cashing in on the "Templar craze", they trace Templar contact with the Canadian Indian tribes to George Washington and the Founding Fathers of the United States with the statement, " the access to the facts was restricted or forbidden for centuries, UNTIL NOW".
Restricted forbidden facts revealed for the first time with footnotes provided for these facts that are used to make nebulous connection that further fraudulent misguided conclusions of piled on speculation based on "secret families of Templars and Freemasons".
As stated by the authors:
"Freemasonry is an offshoot...derived from the Knights Templar and...formed by the secret families. The family that played a major role in that, were of course, the Sinclairs of Rosslyn".
The Sinclairs, of course there is always a Sinclair in these tales, and a Venetian trader are involved in the Templars coming to America in this fantasy fodder fabricated from factual fallacies.

Nothing at all to do with my own premise!

Cheers, Loki

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Robert the Bruce enlisted the help of 25,000 Templar's in regaining Scotland's Independence from England...that's in the history books.

Which "history books" are those? I don't find any documentation stating that.

Helen Nicholson is a professor of history at Cardiff University. She claims "There are no records of any French-speaking knights appearing in Scotland in the early decades of the 14th century in a country where French speakers would certainly be noticed."

And that STILL has nothing to do with Oak Island.

 

[ECS]

... I don't tell others they are wrong, only you!
...

Yes, Loki, you have told me on posts #87,241,243, 291 on this thread that I was wrong , and as usual, did not provide any actual factual information to support your admonishment.
Posts # 53, 57, you state that Franklin is wrong and there are sarcastic negative remarks to others that constitute claiming they are wrong.
AS Franklin mentioned on post #56: "no one is correct all the time and neither are you" to your arrogant "your wrong" remarks.
'nuff said.

 

[ECS]

Could you elaborate on these plethora of pseudo history of the Templars in America books ?
I have a few and maybe want a few other.

Wallace-Murphy & Hopkins have several other titles, as well as the aforementioned on this thread of Baigent & Leigh, Picknett & Prince, Sinclair (always a Sinclair).
Then there is THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR IN AMERICA-William F Mann
TEMPLAR SANCTUARIES IN NORTH AMERICA-William F Mann
THE TEMPLAR MISSION TO OAK ISLAND AND BEYOND-Zena Halpern
THE LOST COLONY OF THE TEMPLARS-Steven Sora
All speculative pseudo history with unrelated facts force fitted and mutated to support undocumented premises presented in these books by quasi historians.
From posts made, I'm sure Loki can recommend several more of these books from his library.

 

[ECS]

...What did you mean by "I do have an opinion concerning Lincoln's work"?

The statement you made on post#298:
"Its not my business to comment on Mr. Lincoln's work" definitely conveys that you do have an opinion on his work.

 

[ECS]

... The "Fact" is we are piecing together a legend from minuscule information at hand, sometimes there is no box to think out of, you just have to go with what sound right.

Diana Muir pieced a lot "sound right" from her imagination concerning Henry Sinclair (always has to have a Sinclair in this narrative) including that it all came from her memory after reading 14th century journals that somehow long longer exist after her reading them.

 

[Dave Rishar]

Robert the Bruce enlisted the help of 25,000 Templar's in regaining Scotland's Independence from England...that's in the history books.

I am also interested in these history books. Which ones discuss this?

Chapel is real, as well as the carvings in it, there is nothing "Pseudo" about that.

Those carvings may not mean what you think that they mean. It can be fun to pluck one feature of the chapel out of context and analyze it, but remember that many (most?) of the carvings in there are fanciful. I would never attempt to use Rosslyn Chapel as proof that there were people running around with plants growing out of their mouths, but there are depictions of that there.

"But it's maize! (And aloe.)" It may be a stylized depiction of that, yes. Or it may just be a decoration that kind of but doesn't quite match a real plant, which seems to be the majority of the "plant" carvings in there - or so say the botanists, anyway. I'm admittedly not an expert.

I feel as if we've had this discussion before. Somehow I think that we will have it again. Oh well.

I haven't heard of any mass suicide of Templar's in the analog of history. So where did they go? I can't imagine a group of knight's would throw up their hand and say "I'm out", after making it to Scotland and battling English knights.

See my (and Charlie's) first question.

 

[ECS]

Which "history books" are those?
I don't find any documentation stating that.
And that STILL has nothing to do with Oak Island.

Those "history books" are modern pulp dime novels, an eructation of unrelated historical facts stitched into a plausible fabric of speculative fantasy marketed to those that are predisposed to presume these speculative fabrications are actual documented historical fact due to the fraudulent weaving of the factual real with the manufactured false.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Ah. The ones who claim "history is not what you've been taught" because their textbooks were simplifications provided by the lowest bidder to get them through high-school, and then support it even worse with false premises.

Gotcha.

 

[treasure1822]

My bad, actually it was 25,000 in the Battle of Bannockburn. Edwards army consisted of 2000 Mounted Knight's and another 15,000 foot soldiers against Robert the Bruce's 500 mounted knight's and 7000 foot soldiers. Seems as though the edge was to Edward and yet the victory went to Robert the Bruce. It would appear that the "Quality" of soldier was no match for the "Quanity" which would lead me to believe that they were very well seasoned. As for Helen Nicholson, she forgot 4 words in her statement which make it true "There are no records that I could find of any French-speaking knights appearing in Scotland in the early decades of the 14th century in a country where French speakers would certainly be noticed."
But she does forget that the Templar Knights were not entirely comprised of the French. If I were in a foreign land I would probably op for the most effective communicator to handle the interaction, makes more sense.

How do you know it has nothing to do with Oak Island?

 

[treasure1822]

Please give us your rendition of what they mean...or are you telling us that you don't know what they mean but know what they don't mean? Tell me this, on the "Apprentice Pillar" at the base is a series of dragons connected like links of a chain biting their own tails. What do they mean?

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

How do you know it has nothing to do with Oak Island?

Because it seems sensible to disallow certain groups: such as Martians, Namibian Pygmies, orangutans and other such categories for lack of evidence of their appearance or activity in North America, or more specifically on Oak Island.

But I will revise that as physical evidence surfaces.

 

[ECS]

...
How do you know it has nothing to do with Oak Island?

What actual documented evidence from a legitimate academic source have you seen that makes you think that it does have to "do with Oak Island"?
That is the answer sorely lacking by its absence.

 

[ECS]

... Tell me this, on the "Apprentice Pillar" at the base is a series of dragons connected like links of a chain biting their own tails. What do they mean?

Why don't you tell us all what they mean and how ot has to "do with Oak Island"?
Unless, of course, the reason you presented this question about the "Apprentice Pillar" is because you don't know the answer and are hoping someone will provide the answer.

 

[treasure1822]

Why don't you tell us all what they mean and how ot has to "do with Oak Island"?
Unless, of course, the reason you presented this question about the "Apprentice Pillar" is because you don't know the answer and are hoping someone will provide the answer.

It is called the "Ouroboros", it has many meaning but the one in question would be "Renewal". You can read it yourself...

https://www.tokenrock.com/explain-ouroboros-70.html