The Knights Templar connection to Oak Island Challenge

[ECS]

... We know that these vessels that were based in the Atlantic, sailed in the Atlantic and that makes them capable of doing so! True that 18 vessels left La Rochelle and legend says they went various directions, South to Portugal, North to Scotland and as I premise a couple (obviously ocean capable) wintered in Scotland on Loch Etive leaving in the Spring to follow Viking (Norse) routes to North America...

Who are the "we" that along with you know what type of vessels the Templars had at La Rochelle?
From the 12th century to the middle to late 14th century, the vessels used by those countries on the Atlantic coastline, from Portugal , France, England, Holland, and those of the Hanseatic League employed to COG, NOT Viking longships.
This has already been discussed on this thread, but you must have missed this post.
The COG was a clinker built , steep sided ,single mast vessel with a FLAT BOTTOM, that sailed along the coast.
The Viking was also clinker built, high sided, single mast and oar powered, with a V-HULL that worked to counteract the tipping force of the wind on the sail making the longship capable of deep ocean travel.
What type of vessel do you premise the Templars possessed that were "obviously ocean capable" now knowing that the COG was the common vessel of the 250 year period?

 

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[ECS]

When a poster can give ECS the facts and documentation he seeks there will be no treasure to find. If anyone had all the answers they would have all the treasures.

Franklin, I did NOT make that quote on POST #639, why are you making it look as if I did?
...especially after your little tirade on POST#635?
'NUFF SAID.

 

[ECS]

If you check with the Archives in France, you can find documentation on what went on at Oak Island. The Knight's Templar Treasures was removed between 1620 and 1641. The original Holy Relics were removed before 1641 along with Mayan and Inca Indian Treasures.
There were two brothers of the King of France in 1641 that had to leave France because they would not convert to the Catholic Faith. They took all of their treasures with them. One brother buried his treasures in the abandoned shaft at Oak Island. The other brother buried his treasure in another location. No one has even looked for the other one half of the 1641 Oak Island Treasure and no one has even mentioned it on this site. The other brother's treasure is buried on another island about 2,000 miles away.
The original Oak Island Treasures buried and recovered were keep in secret hiding until funds were needed for the American Revolution. The Holy Relics were kept at first in MASS. then removed to Williamsburg, VA after Bacon's Rebellion.
Later removed to Philadelphia, PA and then to Washington City and kept under the House of Representatives.
Later the House of Representatives was burned by the British. The Rotunda of the New Capitol Building sits on the site of the Old House of Representatives.
That is the reason dignitaries are laid out under the Rotunda. You can figure the rest of the story out hopefully.

Is any of this actually documented anywhere?
...or
Did the source of this story begin with "Once upon a time"?
*NOTE* Nothing was edited from Franklin's POST #393.

 

[gazzahk]

The Caribbean is part of the Atlantic Basin!

Cheers, Loki

Ha ha. I meant to say that even if some of the coconut fibre was from the Mediterranean it does not mean that other fibre was not from the Caribbean... Given that there is coconut fibre from the Caribbean found near the money pit this must mean it could not have been brought there until after coconuts were grown in the Caribbean. Thus the coconuts (or at least some of them) must of been deposited after 1500 AD (Using your figures) If there was a mix of material the material must of been deposited after the latest dating's.

It would appear after the Laginas most recent dating's of the structures in Smiths Cove that have them being built about 25 years before the pit was first discovered it would seem probable that this is when the coconut fibres were deposited on OI.

 

[Dave Rishar]

The Caribbean is part of the Atlantic Basin!

What if those coconuts were not from the Caribbean?

 

[somehiker]

The natural range of the coconut palm does not include the Mediterranean.

 

[ECS]

The clues from the Shepherdess Parchment; Poussin's second Arcadia painting places the Grail in "Acadia"
the inscription on the Shugborough Monument places it in Nova Scotia, and the Tenniers puts it at a location near Annapolis Basin!
Not misrepresented, sure its spelled Arcadia but both Poussin and the creator of the Shugborough monument show us the "R" should be removed making the inscriptions read Acadia.
The obvious code on the Shugborough is a set of coordinates, the "D" and "M" tell us that, and those coordinates take us to Nova Scotia which is part of Acadia, is it not?
The Tenniers actually gives us the exact location, a site I have visited, near Annapolis Basin! Call it what you want, assumption, speculation, misrepresentation or what ever, it doesn't change what I believe.

Which of the "highly respected Templar historians" presented the information that Poussin, Tenniers, and the creator of the Shugborough Monument all had the arcane secret knowledge that "Arcadia", really meant "Acadia" , and most importantly the GRAIL is in Acadia, and all not being connected decided to leave clues in their works?
That does seem like force fitting unrelated information into a pet theory.
How does this connect to the Templars and coconut coir or to the version presented by Franklin?

*NOTE*
Poussin (1594-1665)
Teniers (1630-1690)
Peter Scheemakers (1691-1781) Flemish sculptor who fashioned Shugborough Monument
Shugborough Monument built between 1748-1793 with homage to a poussin painting with the phrase "Et in Arcadia Ego".

 

[Dave Rishar]

The natural range of the coconut palm does not include the Mediterranean.

Don't get hung up on the "natural range" of coconuts. The damned things have been ferried around the world by humans so extensively, and for so long, that we're not entirely sure where they first came from. (It was probably SEA, but that's not written in stone; that's merely where we find the most genetic variation today.)

 

[franklin]

Is any of this actually documented anywhere?
...or
Did the source of this story begin with "Once upon a time"?
*NOTE* Nothing was edited from Franklin's POST #393.

What is the name of the Street in front of William & Mary College that runs by the Arsenal and the Bruton Baptist Church in Williamsburg, Virginia. Now what was the land around Oak Island, Nova Scotia called by name before Arcadia? What year did this man live that the Street was named for? Look at William & Mary College on Google Earth do you see the "Tree of Life" around and the "Masonic Emblems? Do you know where the treasure was buried at William & Mary College? It never was at the Bruton Baptist Church. Now go to Google Earth and look at Phil., Pa. Independence Hall tell me what you see. Do you see the "Tree of Life" the "Rose Line" running all the way to Paris, France and to Bethlehem, Israel. All the lots and streets in Phil.,Pa layed off on a 53 degree angle instead of the regular North and South. Lot of things out there to look for if you look for them. By the way, do you know the opposite angle of 53 degrees, 37 of course. What does 37 tell us?

 

[somehiker]

Don't get hung up on the "natural range" of coconuts. The damned things have been ferried around the world by humans so extensively, and for so long, that we're not entirely sure where they first came from. (It was probably SEA, but that's not written in stone; that's merely where we find the most genetic variation today.)

In order for coconut palms to exist anywhere along the coastlines of the Mediterranean, they would have had to have been transported by human intervention, as well as being able to live, grow, and produce coconuts in a suitable climate. That and distribution would have also have to have been prior to the 14th century for any possible connection to either the Templars or Oak Island.

 

[ECS]

It tells us, with all the other things listed in your POST#649, whatever preconceived expectations will support a pet theory.
One can take any random collection of facts, piece them together to create at first glace, a plausible connection, but when totally scrutinized with actual real hard documented facts, the could be maybe speculation become quite apparent.
With that said, what do you believe that above random questions signify or prove, Franklin?

The same can be said about Loki's statement concerning Poussin, Teniers, Scheemakers/Shugborough Monument due to the phrase "Et in ARCADIA EGO", but what he neglects to mention is the connection between these men, AND to the alleged Templar connection to Oak Island, and really proves nothing at all.

As for the GRAIL, there is another version that states Joseph of Arimathea brought the GRAIL to
Glastonbury, England where it still resides.

 

[franklin]

It tells us, with all the other things listed in your POST#649, whatever preconceived expectations will support a pet theory.
One can take any random collection of facts, piece them together to create at first glace, a plausible connection, but when totally scrutinized with actual real hard documented facts, the could be maybe speculation become quite apparent.
With that said, what do you believe that above random questions signify or prove, Franklin?

The same can be said about Loki's statement concerning Poussin, Teniers, Scheemakers/Shugborough Monument due to the phrase "Et in ARCADIA EGO", but what he neglects to mention is the connection between these men, AND to the alleged Templar connection to Oak Island, and really proves nothing at all.

As for the GRAIL, there is another version that states Joseph of Arimathea brought the GRAIL to
Glastonbury, England where it still resides.

I have read that version of the "Grail" also. But "Grail" can mean so many different things. If you want to look for the two silver cups that Joseph of Arithimia brought to Glastonbury, England then yes you are correct. One cup was Joseph's the other Nicodemus'. There other "Grails" and other stories. But to me "Grail" is actually Jesus from the ending instead of the beginning. Also it refers to all the "Holy Artifacts" which came to Oak Island and then to Williamsburg, Va and now reside within the USA. As I have said before there will never be enough information or research to prove anything to you and I will not try any further.

 

[ECS]

So far, there has not been any evidence based on actual real research that has been presented by anyone on this thread that prove that the "Holy Artifacts" were brought to Oak Island by the Templars or whomever, or that were then taken to Williamsburg, Virginia.
It is hard to prove something without documentation, and unrelated quilted "facts" is still just a fabric of could be maybe speculation that quickly unravels under critical examination of legitimate factual historical documentation.

 

[sasquash]

So far, there has not been any evidence based on actual real research that has been presented by anyone on this thread that prove that the "Holy Artifacts" were brought to Oak Island by the Templars or whomever, or that were then taken to Williamsburg, Virginia.
It is hard to prove something without documentation, and unrelated quilted "facts" is still just a fabric of could be maybe speculation that quickly unravels under critical examination of legitimate factual historical documentation.

And we are at post 654 ...

Imagine if we have historical documentation ...

Life is strange ...

 

[ECS]

And we are at post 654 ...
Imagine if we have historical documentation ...
Life is strange ...

...and at POST#655 all the evidence presented claiming the Templars came to Oak Island is based on "historical imagination".

 

[ECS]

I have tried for years to get the moderators to get people like ECS from cutting out parts of quotes or post and putting some together to make a book of something that is not TRUE

That and then some.
The edits are made to reply to a specific line from a longer quote.

 

[ECS]

Which of the "highly respected Templar historians" presented the information that Poussin, Tenniers, and the creator of the Shugborough Monument all had the arcane secret knowledge that "Arcadia", really meant "Acadia" , and most importantly the GRAIL is in Acadia, and all not being connected decided to leave clues in their works?...

*NOTE*
Poussin (1594-1665)
Teniers (1630-1690)
Peter Scheemakers (1691-1781) Flemish sculptor who fashioned Shugborough Monument
Shugborough Monument built between 1748-1793 with homage to a poussin painting with the phrase "Et in Arcadia Ego".

It does appear that there exists NO line of connection of secret arcane knowledge about Holy relics/treasure from the Templars to Poussin, Teniers, Scheemakers/ Shugborough Monument Monument to Arcadia to Acadia/Oak Island except in the imagination of those that have generated this pseudo history.
A very good example of stringing random facts of people and events to create a tenuous plausibility for the conspiracy minded who accept without questioning the legitimacy of the source material, but these quasi facts quickly fall apart under intelligent scrutiny of actual real documented history.

 

[franklin]

Most of history goes undocumented. So take your best educated guess. And what history has documented is only ten percent correct.

 

[ECS]

The percentage of written, recorded, and documented is much higher than 10%, especially from the Middle ages on when more people became literate.
Believing that only 10% of history is known is a great boon to these authors of "pseudo make believe what if" history books that 99% fiction based on 1% fact.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Certainly much of history is unrecorded. The first 6,000,0000 years of bipedal hominids did not leave writings.

The majority in even the last 6,000 years is unrecorded. No one bothered to record how many apples were sold on the corner of Fenchurch and Lombard streets in London on June 4th, 1784. It wasn't particularly notable. But that does not mean history is incorrect. Just incomplete.

As far as what is recorded? I'd go as high as 80% correct. And that is a LOT of records. There are also degrees of correctness. Improperly accredited quotes or missing a date by days or weeks do not change the sentiment of the time.

Wars occurred and whether the side that started it is properly blamed or credited doesn't change the outcome or the fact there were battles.