The Knights Templar connection to Oak Island Challenge

[lokiblossom]

Just one more thing, Loki, you claim the Templar evidence of their presence on Oak Island is Dave?
Is that Dave DeMolay?

Hmm, Dave understood the comment, why didn't you? Was it my lack of punctuation, or?

Cheers, Loki

 

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[ECS]

...or humourous comic relief, or Dave really is a Templar that gets around.

 

[Raparee]

Logic Dave, btw, none of the coconut fibres actually originated in the Middle East that early. India, where they were manufactured into coir and is most logically where they came from, traded in the Middle East.

If this was a court case (of any kind) and Martians were part of your defense, I don't think you would win.

Vikings or Norse were not trading in the Middle East in the correct time period.

You also had Portuguese and Venetians, but they kept records, and were only sporadically in the Middle East in the 12th to 14th Century's.

Then there were the Templars, who were based in the Middle East from the early 12th Century until the 14th Century. In 1307, they had 18 vessels, most of which had just come from the Middle East, disappear from a French Atlantic seaport along with the newly appointed Grand Master who became the most wanted man in France. More recently coconut fibre is discovered on Oak Island dated to between the 12th and 15th century's (depends on who did the dating). Its all about logic Dave, and as it stands, not proof but circumstantial evidence. Of course I was only commenting on Mr. Wonder's post in which he claimed, no Templars ever set foot on Oak Island.

Cheers, Loki

Still very Eurocentric. It has to be the Templars because the Portuguese and Venetians (allegedly) have no records of using coconut fiber. What about the umpteen other societies that had access to this fiber?

 

[Raparee]

I'll leave this here and let the mods decide if it's fit:

Where Did the Myth of the Lost Templar Fleet and Its Transoceanic Voyage Come From? - Jason Colavito

 

[lokiblossom]

Still very Eurocentric. It has to be the Templars because the Portuguese and Venetians (allegedly) have no records of using coconut fiber. What about the umpteen other societies that had access to this fiber?[/QUOTE

Not what I meant Raparee. The Portuguese and Venetians left records of every important voyage they made and there are none of a pre-columbian voyage to the far West. I suppose you mean the Asians and Arabs. Asian voyages to Atlantic North America are no more accepted than that of the Solutrean's. Arab sailors left better records than the Portuguese. My premise is one of logic Which is the more logical, than a group that had operated in an area for two centuries where the fibre was available, traveled to an Atlantic port as was recorded, and then left that port having a need to flee and hide.

And, btw, the authors of Holy Blood Holy Grail, had a lot right in their own premises plus quite a bit wrong, and the testimony of Jean de Chalons is well documented. Also as is the number of vessels available and the fact that the Templars basically owned the Port of La Rochelle via an 1139 documenet from the Queen of France. Also a fact is that none of the vessels were ever accounted for and neither was the new Grand Master of the Order, Gerard de Villers, whom as I mentioned became the most wanted man in France.

There is much more involved with this story than Jason Colavito has mentioned! There is a related Troyes and Rennes le Chateau connection with St, Bernard of Clairvaux being a major player along with a highly respected Rabbi named Rashi and his neighbor the Count of Champagne. Oh, and Montsegur, we can't forget Montsegur and what happened there on March 16, 1244!

Everybody knows about the two Scottish Templars being arrested, but it was a year later and by the English not Scottish authorities as that part of Scotland was under English control at the time. Scotland never tried a single Templar.

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

Still, the Templar fleet myth is nothing more than fringe speculation by fringe historians for the sole purpose of selling books. There is a severe lack of any hard historical documentation of the Templars sailing to Nova Scotia, much less concerning of them construction a treasure vault pit on Oak Island.
Due to this lack of evidence, the speculative tales run rampant.

 

[lokiblossom]

Still, the Templar fleet myth is nothing more than fringe speculation by fringe historians for the sole purpose of selling books. There is a severe lack of any hard historical documentation of the Templars sailing to Nova Scotia, much less concerning of them construction a treasure vault pit on Oak Island.
Due to this lack of evidence, the speculative tales run rampant.

You are so wrong that you don't even know how wrong you are! Lol! Yes, there is a lack of proof of the Templars sailing to Nova Scotia (although I know they did) of which I am trying to change. And I never said they constructed anything on Oak Island, although if they were there they probably constructed something. I think the drilled stones and the stone cross were their's btw.
The fact is that they did sail somewhere, that is documented, so your mention of a Templar fleet myth is, dare I say it again, simply wrong!
Again, we can't forget Montsegur and those that died there on March 16, 1244! There is a list of 63 names of the more than 200 that has been gathered from inquisition records.

Cheers, Loki

 

[Robot]

Are These The Knights Templar...You Are Talking About?. Knightfall Season 2...Begins!

https://flixtor.to/watch/tv/4095626/knightfall/season/2/episode/1

 

[ECS]

Montesegur was a Roman Catholic operation to extinguish and eliminate the competition of the CATHAR branch of Christianity, known as the Albigensian Crusade as ordered by Pope Innocent with Sir Simon de Montfort, who was NOT a Templar, in charge of this mission.

Loki, it is easy to randomly piece true historical events and weave them to clothe a pet theory, but in the end, the Emperor, alas, no matter what suitmaker claims, has no clothes.

 

[sasquash]

https://flixtor.to/watch/tv/4095626/knightfall/season/2/episode/1


View attachment 1698519

Enjoy !

 

[lokiblossom]

Montesegur was a Roman Catholic operation to extinguish and eliminate the competition of the CATHAR branch of Christianity, known as the Albigensian Crusade as ordered by Pope Innocent with Sir Simon de Montford, who was NOT a Templar, in charge of this mission.

Good for you, you read a little about the Cathars

Templars were only involved as friends and relatives of the Cathar faithful. Montsegur was the Grail Mountain of the Grail stories and the last stand of the Cathars whom had battled the Church and King for over 30 years. The fortified castle on top of Montsegur held out for several months until the defenders surrendered to the Armys organized under direction of the Church under the condition that they had two weeks to leave the fort. The day before, on March 15 several Cathar Knights took some items off the Mountain pog down the steep cliff face with ropes. These items were later handed over to the Knights Templar for safe keeping. Otto Rahn, a 1930's Cathar and Grail historian claimed the Holy Grail was hidden somewhere within the Mountain. On March 16, 1244 the defenders walked out of the fort and some 200 men, women and children of the faithful were burnt alive, 63 of them are known by name from the inquisition records.

This is only part of the Grail Story! Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

SS Oberstrumfuhrer Otto Rahn was a pseudo archeologist/historian for Himler's SS ABNENERBE and his work and research has been discredited for his attempt to legitimize the Nazi Aryan Belief of being the "true religion".
Much to Himmler's dismay, Rahn never found the Grail at Montsegur, and was found frozen to death , March 13, 1939, on Kufstein Mountain after being taken there by SS guards.
Rahn's work is NOT taken as legitimate historical research, and has been dismissed by real academics as nonsense.
"My ancestors were pagans, My forebears were heretics"- Otto Rahn

Otto Rahn is a good example of one who piecemealed real history to fit a pet theory.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Much like Petter A. ;-)

 

[lokiblossom]

SS Oberstrumfuhrer Otto Rahn was a pseudo archeologist/historian for Himler's SS ABNENERBE and his work and research has been discredited for his attempt to legitimize the Nazi Aryan Belief of being the "true religion".
Much to Himmler's dismay, Rahn never found the Grail at Montsegur, and was found frozen to death , March 13, 1939, on Kufstein Mountain after being taken there by SS guards.
Rahn's work is NOT taken as legitimate historical research, and has been dismissed by real academics as nonsense.
"My ancestors were pagans, My forebears were heretics"- Otto Rahn

Otto Rahn is a good example of one who piecemealed real history to fit a pet theory.

Rahn, called the original Indiana Jones, never found the Grail at Montsegur because it had been removed in 1244, and the Templars had it after that! He actually was sent all over the world searching for it!

You think his work should be discredited because of his beliefs (which actually were anti Nazi, he had been drafted into the SS). After the War the U.S. and U.K. learned a lot from German engineering including much of our rocket knowledge.
"Anyone who thinks their enemy is stupid will lose the battle" a Russian Officer

"piecemealed" must be your word, and evidently you don't understand the real history! He was mistaken in his understanding of what the Grail really is, as are most Grail searchers today. Rahn was found frozen to death under mysterious circumstances after he was discovered to be gay, where did you find information that he was taken there by SS guards? I'm not saying he wasn't, but I never heard anyone mention serious evidence of it.
Here is part of a 2018 quote by Andrew Milne about him, "he was openly gay, liberal leaning and NOT anti-semetic",(his Mother was Jewish)!

Actually if you are going to research something you should read more than a Wikipedia article, you do understand that anybody can add to those subjects? There is tons of information on this man all over the internet, most of it contradictory to your posts!

The original Grail story began in Troyes, written by Chretien of Troyes in 1190, at the Court of the Count of Champagne where the Knights Templar were founded some years earlier.

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

Much like Petter A. ;-)

Petter who?

Cheers, Loki

 

[Raparee]

My premise is one of logic ...

Logic should tell you that absent any material evidence found in association with the 'coconut fiber' it is impossible to state who deposited it.

 

[lokiblossom]

Logic should tell you that absent any material evidence found in association with the 'coconut fiber' it is impossible to state who deposited it.

Of course you know I disagree. Logic tells me the most likely candidate would be the Templars for reasons I have mentioned, IF, the identity and dating proves out.
I do know that logic falls short of proof, but logic creates reason to search for proof as was the case with "L'Anse aux Meadows". Logic also seems to point to more Norse sites further South, like Vinland, don't you think?

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

Rahn, called the original Indiana Jones, never found the Grail at Montsegur because it had been removed in 1244, and the Templars had it after that!...

You think his work should be discredited because of his beliefs (which actually were anti Nazi, he had been drafted into the SS). After the War the U.S. and U.K. learned a lot from German engineering including much of our rocket knowledge...

"piecemealed" must be your word, and evidently you don't understand the real history!...

The original Grail story began in Troyes, written by Chretien of Troyes in 1190, at the Court of the Count of Champagne where the Knights Templar were founded some years earlier.

You do realize that the original Grail story was just that, a story, not based on fact, written during the time of the Crusades when the gathering and selling of religious relics was BIG BUSINESS.
SS Oberstrumfuhrer Otto Rahn was NO Indiana Jones and willingly joined Himler's ABNENERBE for funding of his obsession with the Grail story, you realize that Himler's SS was his version of pure TEUTONIC KNIGHTS, and the Nazi's in addition to obtaining artworks were highly motivated to obtain religious relics for their power.
Himler had his own occult version of the Templar ceremonies at his Wewelsburg castle including his Black Sun round table.

There is NO real hard documented evidence that the Grail was ever at Montsegur, that the "Templars were only involved as friends and relatives of the Cathar faithful", or that they removed the Grail in 1244.

Comparing German real science developments in rocketry to support Rahn's misinformation, is just a strawman hayride to a red herring fishfry.
*NOTE* Werner von Braun and his team of scientists who developed our space program, were also members of Himler's SS ABNENERBE and used slave labor to build those V1 and V2's.

It is not me that doesn't understand "real history" friend Loki, and I don't place belief in fake history based on legends and myth that promote a twisted ideology, nor do I quote fictional works of medieval chivalry as facts to support a pet theory or held beliefs.

 

[lokiblossom]

You do realize that the original Grail story was just that, a story, not based on fact, written during the time of the Crusades when the gathering and selling of religious relics was BIG BUSINESS.
SS Oberstrumfuhrer Otto Rahn was NO Indiana Jones and willingly joined Himler's ABNENERBE for funding of his obsession with the Grail story, you realize that Himler's SS was his version of pure TEUTONIC KNIGHTS, and the Nazi's in addition to obtaining artworks were highly motivated to obtain religious relics for their power.
Himler had his own occult version of the Templar ceremonies at his Wewelsburg castle including his Black Sun round table.

There is NO real hard documented evidence that the Grail was ever at Montsegur, that the "Templars were only involved as friends and relatives of the Cathar faithful", or that they removed the Grail in 1244.

Comparing German real science developments in rocketry to support Rahn's misinformation, is just a strawman hayride to a red herring fishfry.
*NOTE* Werner von Braun and his team of scientists who developed our space program, were also members of Himler's SS ABNENERBE and used slave labor to build those V1 and V2's.

It is not me that doesn't understand "real history" friend Loki, and I don't place belief in fake history based on legends and myth that promote a twisted ideology, nor do I quote fictional works of medieval chivalry as facts to support a pet theory or held beliefs.

The original Grail story was written for and at the request of the Countess of Champagne in 1190 in Troyes France but was not finished. Later Wolfram von Eschenbach finished the romance describing a Grail Castle in a mountain with a name meaning the same as Montsegur. The Castle of Montsegur fell to the forces of the King of France and the Church on March 16, 1944 and over 200 Cathar faithful were executed by being burned alive. Although Montsegur was considered the last stand of the Cathars the last known faithful member of the religion was burned at the stake in 1321, as he was led to his death he is claimed to have said that "in 700 years the laurel will again turn green".

And there is hard evidence that Cathar families were related to Templars and also owned properties in the area. As a matter of fact in many instances Catholic families protected Cathars and were even known to have fought along side in some instances.
At Beziers, the Catholics were ordered to give up any Cathars to the forces of the Church. Refusing to do so everybody in Beziers was put to the sword, Catholic, Cathar, women and Children. The leader of the Church forces Arnaud Amairic said "kill them all God will know his own". Most estimates are that 20,000 died that day.

Otto Rahn was and is described as the original Indiana Jones and anyone interested in The Grail stories would do well to read his books on the subject. He had access to Church inquisition (which was established because of the so-called Cathar heresy)records from where he garnered much of his information on the Cathars and the Grail stories. As a reluctant member of the SS after Himmler brought him in he told his friends what could he have done. Realizing the evil within the SS he resigned which was not actually possible, in March of 1939 his body was found frozen and his death was passed off as a suicide.

Also important to this story is the little Church of St. Mary Magdalene in Rennes le Chateau, France.

Oh, and the fact that the first nine Templars who were all related and from Troyes France spent a decade in Jerusalem searching for religious artifacts because of information learned from the most prominent Rabbi of the day 'Rashi' who also lived in Troyes, (where the Grail story originated). Rashi, as did most 12 century Rabbis believed the Ark of the Covenant to be hidden under the old foundation of Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem. It wasn't there but there is documented evidence that the Knights searched the old Temple location for at least a decade, what they did discover was not connected to the Temple.

And now the Holy Grail rests near Annapolis Basin, Nova Scotia after having passed through Oak Island in 1308

Cheers, loki

 

[ECS]

My friend Loki, all this is circumstantial speculation and if 'hard evidence that the Cathar families were related to the Templars" does actually exists, please cite and present the source of this hard documentation.

The story of the Church of St Mary Magdalene of Rennes le Chateau that originated with Parish priest Father Berenger Sauniere is highly suspect of his discovery of four coded parchments in a column, and has led to questioning the origin of the money for restoration of the church, be it a discovery of a Visigoth treasure, payoffs from a secret society to kept the Grail's location secret to the Priory of Sion or the Templars talking the Grail to Oak Island.
Incidentally, no has seen these four parchments, nor is their location if they ever actually existed, is known.

Now about Otto Rahn:
It is highly suspicious that Rahn died just a few weeks after "resigning" from the SS considering the blood oath of fealty made by Himler's Black Knights, and the same month that Rahn's colleague, Karl Maria Willigut, was forced to resign his commission and was placed under the "protection" of the Gestapo.
*NOTE* One did not "resign" from the Order of the SS except by death.
"It is surely no coincidence that his (Rahn) death occurred on the anniversary of the fall on Montsegur, the aesthetics mountain stronghold in southern France, which occurred on 14 March1244"- Paul Roland/ THE NAZIS AND THE OCCULT

Where is the proof that the "HOLY GRAIL rests near Annapolis Basin, Nova Scotia after passing through Oak Island in 1308?
When making a statement as this, you should be able to provide hard backup evidence to support that statement, otherwise it is baseless speculation.