The Knights Templar connection to Oak Island Challenge

[ECS]

This is what I wrote, you must have missed it!

What we are all missing is your answer to the question of when did the Grand Master arrived in La Rochelle from Cyprus. the date , how many galleys, and what did they transport.
Why are you avoiding answering this simple question, as you continue to claim ot is "common knowledge"?

 

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[lokiblossom]

Depending on the breed a horse needs 5 to 10 gallons of water per day. As we are discussing knights we can assume large war breeds. A wood barrel is between 43 (std UK beer) and around 60 gallons (std French wine) - so ten large or 14 small barrels a day for 60 horses. Ships of the day might have been able to accommodate 20 to two-dozen horses. So the "fleet" would likely have needed three ships just for horses . . . assuming a lot. Like the knights were all mounted, brought their horses, and ever went anywhere across the Atlantic.

Side note - there were specialized ships used solely for horse transport. You get a horse to unwharfed shoreline it's still a chore to get it off the ship.

This premise (200 horses) had nothing to do with crossing the Atlantic Charlie. The 200 or so horses would have been being transported from Cyprus to France, more than likely to the Templar owned port of La Rochelle.


Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

What we are all missing is your answer to the question of when did the Grand Master arrived in La Rochelle from Cyprus. the date , how many galleys, and what did they transport.
Why are you avoiding answering this simple question, as you continue to claim ot is "common knowledge"?

Oh, sorry, I was engrossed in a tv show about John Fogerty.

I think I explained most of that in post 975, and I believe you sort of agreed with me.

Cheers, Loki

 

[franklin]

This premise (200 horses) had nothing to do with crossing the Atlantic Charlie. The 200 or so horses would have been being transported from Cyprus to France, more than likely to the Templar owned port of La Rochelle.


Cheers, Loki

So 80 tons of horses would need 7 tons of water? 200 horses 33 each 60 gallon barrels.

 

[ARC]

Hi Just how many barrels of water would 200 horses drink a day ? H.S or B.S TP

I think they rode goats instead to save on water. :P

 

[tinpan]

So 80 tons of horses would need 7 tons of water? 200 horses 33 each 60 gallon barrels.

Hi How many days of water would be required for 200 horses be sailed from Cypress to France if the ship could make a good 4 knots an hour. TP

 

[ECS]

...
I think I explained most of that in post 975, and I believe you sort of agreed with me.

Well, you repeated my mention of de Molay at the funeral Princess Catherine of Courteney without mentioning the date, just as your avoiding the date of when the Grand Master arrived at La Rochelle from Cyprus.
Does that date conflict with de Chalons' testimony concerning that he "heard" de Villers set to sea with 18 galleys, on which your entire premise is based?
Also, you avoid discussing de Chalons' testimony concerning de Villers character and beliefs, not exactly the Templar white knight in shining armour.

 

[tinpan]

Hi 200 well watered horses are not required to be feed as often . 200 horses would require about 2 tons of hay every 4 days . Hay in medieval times was not hard baled rather more loss. Thats a rather large pile considering how far they had to sail. Cypress to France Usable space in the ships hull ? TP

 

[tinpan]

Hi Most medieval horses were breed for type and functions on location . Why transport ? TP

 

[tinpan]

Hi Not much common sense science in this thread . TP

 

[ECS]

...Jean de Chalons said they knew beforehand.
Actually, Philip had sent out orders to his seneschals and bailus in all parts of France in early September of 1307 which were not to be opened until October 13th.
Remember Templars had supporters in all areas of France and many certainly knew Philip's agents or some even were Philip's agents...

Actually most academic Templar historians stand firm on the fact that the Templars had NO foreknowledge of the October 13, 1307 arrests, and that is obvious with de Molay attending Princess Catherine of Courteney's funeral the day before the arrests.
If you have documented evidence that they did have advance knowledge without referring to de Chalons' highly questionable testimony or by innuendo, please state the source.

What was the date when the Grand Master departed for France, harbouring either at either Collioure or La Rochelle from Cyprus?
It was late in 1306, 11 months before the arrests by order of King Phillip IV, and how does that relate to the October 13, 1307 arrests?
When did the Pope order the arrest of the Templars?
A month later in November.

 

[Al D]

All I know for sure is that de Molay was in Poitiers by the end of May, 1307!

Jean de Chalons said they knew beforehand.

Even if de Moley did know of an impending arrest, he had no choice but to answer the summons, it is how many of the Templars were able to avoid getting arrested.
there were more members of the Templar order than indicated by role call list and manifest, many worked in support activities for the Templars yet were not Templars themselves, these supporters made up the bulk of the “Templars” who got away.
The Templars could not have gathered and moved any treasure prior to the arrest, however, they did have some treasure held in secret secure locations, it is those treasures that King Philip was unable to acquire.

 

[lokiblossom]

Actually most academic Templar historians stand firm on the fact that the Templars had NO foreknowledge of the October 13, 1307 arrests, and that is obvious with de Molay attending Princess Catherine of Courteney's funeral the day before the arrests.
If you have documented evidence that they did have advance knowledge without referring to de Chalons' highly questionable testimony or by innuendo, please state the source.

What was the date when the Grand Master arrived in France, either Collioure or La Rochelle from Cyprus?
It was late in 1306, 11 months before the arrests by order of King Phillip IV, and how does that relate to the October 13, 1307 arrests?
When did the Pope order the arrest of the Templars?
A month later in November.

It is known that de Molay was delayed in leaving Cyprus for his meeting with the Pope and when arriving in France proceeded straight away to Poitiers, arriving there in late May,1307. This would put him in La Rochelle sometime in May,1307!

 

[lokiblossom]

Actually most academic Templar historians stand firm on the fact that the Templars had NO foreknowledge of the October 13, 1307 arrests, and that is obvious with de Molay attending Princess Catherine of Courteney's funeral the day before the arrests.
If you have documented evidence that they did have advance knowledge without referring to de Chalons' highly questionable testimony or by innuendo, please state the source.

What was the date when the Grand Master arrived in France, either Collioure or La Rochelle from Cyprus?
It was late in 1306, 11 months before the arrests by order of King Phillip IV, and how does that relate to the October 13, 1307 arrests?
When did the Pope order the arrest of the Templars?
A month later in November.

There are some historians who agree that they must have had knowledge of the impending arrests. How could they not have? would be my question to anybody who disagrees. As we both mentioned de Molay had friends even in the Royalty of France. There were at least 2500 knights unaccounted for by one historian. along with the 2nd in command of the Order in France and some 9 other high ranking French Templars. Most of the 10 (not including Villers) were eventually caught.

Where in the world did you get the figure "11 months", can you explain a source for this?

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

It is known that de Molay was delayed in leaving Cyprus for his meeting with the Pope and when arriving in France proceeded straight away to Poitiers, arriving there in late May,1307. This would put him in La Rochelle sometime in May,1307!

What was the purpose of the Pope's summons that had nothing to do with the Arrest over a year later?
Where is the documentation that he landed at La Rochelle, late May 1307?

 

[ECS]

(1)There are some historians who agree that they must have had knowledge of the impending arrests...

(2)Where in the world did you get the figure "11 months", can you explain a source for this?

(1)While requesting sources, can you actually list "some historians who agree that they must have had knowledge of the impending arrests"?
(2)The source is from one of your posts Loki, which was posted and is quoted on another thread.
Are you now admitting that you were wrong or posting innuendo as factual information?

 

[lokiblossom]

(1)While requesting sources, can you actually list "some historians who agree that they must have had knowledge of the impending arrests"?
(2)The source is from one of your posts Loki, which was posted and is quoted on another thread.
Are you now admitting that you were wrong or posting innuendo as factual information?

Nope, never posted that, please remove that statement or state the post!

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

There are some historians who agree that they must have had knowledge of the impending arrests. ...

It appears that you did indeed post that statement.
Who are these respected legitimate Templar historians that agree that the Templars must have had knowledge of the impending arrests? You constantly make similar claims that lack any real supporting evidence beyond your supposition.
Why would the Cyprus galleys remain in the port of La Rochelle unloaded for several months when there was NO foreknowledge of the upcoming October 13th arrests?
As you have stated many times as a basis for your premise, the Templars conducted a wine trade up and down the Atlantic coast, and no money is made with the galleys remaining in port unloaded.

 

[lokiblossom]

It appears that you did indeed post that statement.
Who are these respected legitimate Templar historians that agree that the Templars must have had knowledge of the impending arrests? You constantly make similar claims that lack any real supporting evidence beyond your supposition.
Why would the Cyprus galleys remain in the port of La Rochelle unloaded for several months when there was NO foreknowledge of the upcoming October 13th arrests?
As you have stated many times as a basis for your premise, the Templars conducted a wine trade up and down the Atlantic coast, and no money is made with the galleys remaining in port unloaded.

Post the statement if you think I said that otherwise please remove it!

 

[ECS]

Nope, never posted that, please remove that statement or state the post!

Never posted what, Loki?
Whether it was 11 months or 5 months you did state as fact that these galleys remained in port unloaded, and alluded by innuendo that the Pope summoned de Molay to Poiters had to do with the arrests that happened many moths later.
Do you know why the Pope actual summoned de Molay from Cyprus?
PS; With all the times you have misquoted and misrepresented my statements, I NEVER begged for you to remove your posts.
Just sayin'