Oak Island: Was something even there.

[Roadhse2]

"could find a homesite, it would have been well scouted wouldn't it?"

if it had been well scouted, even more reason to unload on the mainland and not move it from an island, they already knew their destination...and if they were concerned about hiding...an island only just off the mainland would be the wrong place to do that.

 

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[Bud Aurum]

The stones of the triangle when discovered were deep into the ground, they had been there a long time. Yes they would show where they went and if you think that was stupid, how many have come to that conclusion. Also they could have been pulled at any time.
There is a lot of sarcasm here and I don't know if this is some or not as I have not conversed with you before.
Cheers, Loki

No sarcasm at all,
I am only trying to understand why a lot of the stones on OI allude to a mosaic presence.
Best explanation of stones I have heard as of yet that make any sense to me...
Fits better than theory of randomness and clouds in the sky....

Your Bud Aurum

 

[Roadhse2]

Ok...i'll play...Show me documentation 300 yo coir was wet and smelly...

Of course it would be dried before reselling, just as 2 year old coir would be....

Smelly part? I am also inclined to give you that one as I figure any coir would be smelly after being in the hold of a ship...BUT, I won't...show me the documentation!

 

[Raparee]

Yes it was Charing Cross and I can prove it! And because they were hiding, although I don't think they would abandon their ships which in my premise are no more than three. Certainly anybody in such a position wouldn't simply pull up to some island unload and hope they could find a homesite, it would have been well scouted wouldn't it?
Cheers, Loki

Show me one map, one official document that has Charing Cross marked at the New Ross area.

So they leave their ships in Mahone Bay for any passing Templar hunter to see while they are building their 'castle' at New Ross. If they were hiding, your theory seems to indicate that they weren't very good at it. They would have sailed right past dozens of places in NS alone where they could have found a home site and kept their ships at hand for an easy escape. Off the top of my head: Bras d'Or lakes and Halifax harbor. Had they sailed just a little bit further west, they could have sailed right up the La Havre. If they did any scouting, they did a poor job of it.

 

[lokiblossom]

Ok...i'll play...Show me documentation 300 yo coir was wet and smelly...

Of course it would be dried before reselling, just as 2 year old coir would be....

Smelly part? I am also inclined to give you that one as I figure any coir would be smelly after being in the hold of a ship...BUT, I won't...show me the documentation!

I asked you first!
Cheers, Loki

 

[Roadhse2]

" unloaded coconut fibre on the Island."

yep....fibre from the port in Cuba, that they were using in large capacity anyway for a commercical fishing operation on the island to pack salted fish in for shipping...A port in Cuba that traded with ships from the tip of Africa to ports across the Atlantic...

So, as the buyer of that coir, and knowing I was only going to use it as a filter system, would I pull in and say "Hey give me a load of your best coir" OR would I say "Hey you got any old coir we could get cheap?" < Some sarcasm there as well as some truth...you figure out which is which

 

[lokiblossom]

Show me one map, one official document that has Charing Cross marked at the New Ross area.

So they leave their ships in Mahone Bay for any passing Templar hunter to see while they are building their 'castle' at New Ross. If they were hiding, your theory seems to indicate that they weren't very good at it. They would have sailed right past dozens of places in NS alone where they could have found a home site and kept their ships at hand for an easy escape. Off the top of my head: Bras d'Or lakes and Halifax harbor. Had they sailed just a little bit further west, they could have sailed right up the La Havre. If they did any scouting, they did a poor job of it.

Just check out Caroline Leopold's "History of New Ross" I was sent it by a very good friend of Joan Hope's but I think its online. I also have a photo of a World War 1 gun emplacement at the site on a large concrete structure thad has the words "Charing Cross" in the concrete, and I have a later photo of the same site with a memorial for the gun.
Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

" unloaded coconut fibre on the Island."

yep....fibre from the port in Cuba, that they were using in large capacity anyway for a commercical fishing operation on the island to pack salted fish in for shipping...A port in Cuba that traded with ships from the tip of Africa to ports across the Atlantic...

So, as the buyer of that coir, and knowing I was only going to use it as a filter system, would I pull in and say "Hey give me a load of your best coir" OR would I say "Hey you got any old coir we could get cheap?" < Some sarcasm there as well as some truth...you figure out which is which

What are you talking about, you make no sense. Are you saying you can get coir from Cuba dated to 1300ad?
Cheers, Loki

 

[Raparee]

Just check out Caroline Leopold's "History of New Ross" I was sent it by a very good friend of Joan Hope's but I think its online. I also have a photo of a World War 1 gun emplacement at the site on a large concrete structure thad has the words "Charing Cross" in the concrete, and I have a later photo of the same site with a memorial for the gun.
Cheers, Loki

So that's no, then. You have no map or official document labeling the New Ross area as Charing Cross. No real, credible basis for your claim.

 

[ECS]

So coir dating to 1100 AD can survive being buried (allegedly) in the sand of Oak Island, subject to centuries of tides, sand, freezing and thawing, yet, according to you, could only last one trip across the Med or Atlantic?

I'm With Singestack on this one. Even if the coir does date to 1100 or 1400 (or whatever), it doesn't mean that it was deposited in 1100 or 1400 (or whenever), especially when considering the sketchy provenance that you describe above ("the sample was physically obtained by David Tobias from Smith's Cove behind an old board wall (first section North side) and spent the last 20 years or so in the island museum as sample 'S-2'.").

Are there existing samples so one could be tested to determine area of origin?
Middle east origin would support the Templer connection, Caribbean would dispel the 1100 AD theory once and for all.

 

[Roadhse2]

I'm saying it would be possible because the same coir circulated around on these shipping routes until they turned to dust....because of the reasons cited before, cost and availability

You guy's have fun...wife will be home soon for lunch and wonder why I am not working on building my new shop on one of the only nice days we have had in the last month...laying around on the couch on the internet is NOT a good excuse...LOL

I'll check back later to see if they found a Templar ship stuffed with coir on the island stuck into the Money Pit...to hide it.

 

[lokiblossom]

So Loki, you don't know where the Scottish properties of the Knights Templars were and you don't know where Norse Scotland was, yet you claim the "Templars in Scotland lived and worked among the Scottish Norse population" and they all went on to take a journey together no one has undertaken for 300 years.

Funny you accuse Roadhse2 of speculation; as far as I can see you are indulging in fantasy.

The only part of the journey nobody has taken for 300 years may have been from Greenland to Newfoundland, and we don't even know that do we! And I don't think I wrote they all went on a journey together. As I told Roadhouse not speculation, a premise, there is a difference. And I do know where the major properties of the Scottish Templars were. Why don't you look up the percentage of Norse DNA in Scotland, that would help immensely.
Btw, the Templars had holdings in Balantrodoch, Maryculter, Nairn, Aggerstone, Stirlingshire, Gloscow, Inchinnan, Renfrewshire, Kirkliston in Midlothian, and St Germains in East Lothian among other small tracts throughout the kingdom.
Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

So that's no, then. You have no map or official document labeling the New Ross area as Charing Cross. No real, credible basis for your claim.

What, a history of the area doesn't tell you anything? I said it was called Charing Cross first and it was. You are welcome to believe what you wish.

I thought I would add this for anybody who may be interested.

Caroline Leopold, "The History of New Ross" 1966 "Extent of New Ross: it embraces the smaller communities of Fortier, leville, Glengarry and Seffernville, in addition to the central Charing Cross, Charing Cross, the central section of New Ross received its name in the early days of the settlement of Sherbrooke. The name is usually shortened to the 'Cross"

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

...

The coir argument is what I find wrong...especially when you can give no reason for it to be there in the first place

The whole issue with the coir is suspect.
It could have been an old floor mat that washed ashore with NO Templer connection.

 

[Smithbrown]

So you claim that there were over a 100 Templar houses in Scotland. That's easy then- just print the list please.

 

[Raparee]

What, a history of the area doesn't tell you anything? I said it was called Charing Cross first and it was.
Cheers, Loki

If it was, then there should be no issue with finding a map indicating so. I mean, if Leopold is so reliable, she must have provided some source for her claim, right? What was she basing her statement on?

 

[ECS]

... I do know where the major properties of the Scottish Templars were. Why don't you look up the percentage of Norse DNA in Scotland, that would help immensely...

...and the majority of Norse Viking dominance from the 8th century to 1468 in Scotland was centered in the north Orkney Islands.
These Vikings were NOT Templers, and often raided churches for valuables.
A bit of real history would do you some good.

 

[lokiblossom]

Are there existing samples so one could be tested to determine area of origin?
Middle east origin would support the Templer connection, Caribbean would dispel the 1100 AD theory once and for all.

ECS, there was no Caribbean connection for coconut fibre before the 1500s. It did not exist in the Atlantic Basin until brought from the Indian Ocean by the Portuguese in 1499. And, yes there are still existing samples, one was offered to me a short while ago.
Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

...and the majority of Norse Viking dominance from the 8th century to 1468 in Scotland was centered in the north Orkney Islands.
These Vikings were NOT Templers, and often raided churches for valuables.
A bit of real history would do you some good.

Umm, sorry ECS but I do know that, but most of Scotland had Norse influence. Even with Norway losing direct control of the Western Isles in 1266, the Norse influence certainly continued. Recent DNA studies have confirmed that Somerled the Lord of Argyll in the 12th century was of Norse descent in his paternal line with a tentative marker of Viking descent. He married Raghnailt, herself of Norse, Viking descent. I could go into the percentage of Norse DNA throughout Scotland but maybe later. have to save some stuff.
Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

...and that is the point of testing the sample for area of origin.
Carbon 14 is NOT that reliable for dating items less than 1000 years old, when the results become less hard accurate science, and more the "art" of interpretation of the one performing the test.