Oak Island: Was something even there.

[Roadhse2]

ECS...the examples were sent to 2 labs that could not determine if they were coconut fibre or not as they were to degraded...

Loki...

I thought you said they wouldn't last over 20 years? How were you then offered an example from the time period of 1500 or even 1900?

Just curious, because of so many contradictions in what you state in different posts..

 

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[lokiblossom]

...and that is the point of testing the sample for area of origin.
Carbon 14 is NOT that reliable for dating items less than 1000 years old, when the results become less hard accurate science, and more the "art" of interpretation of the one performing the test.

Its fine for our purposes, I think even R2 would agree with that. I did give you a little history lesson though, back one post.
Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

ECS...the examples were sent to 2 labs that could not determine if they were coconut fibre or not as they were to degraded...

Loki...

I thought you said they wouldn't last over 20 years? How were you then offered an example from the time period of 1500 or even 1900?

Just curious, because of so many contradictions in what you state in different posts..

There were at least three reports that positively identified the coconut fibre, I quoted them a little while ago. I'm not going to quote something multiple times so please read back. I said or meant they would't be any good for their original purpose after 20 years.
Cheers, Loki

 

[Raparee]

Are there existing samples so one could be tested to determine area of origin?
Middle east origin would support the Templer connection, Caribbean would dispel the 1100 AD theory once and for all.

The problem with the samples obtained by Woods Hole were so decomposed that even identifying the species (coconut) was not possible. New samples would have to be found, preferably by someone independent of the Lagina boys.
There have (apparently) been other studies done of other samples that have positively ID'd samples as coconut, or some sort of palm. People have taken this as proof of pre-Columbus contact with the New World, as (according to some) at the time that the fibres were dated to there were no coconuts in the New World. This is a fairly flimsy claim to make. There is still some debate into the existence of an American species prior to the domestication of the coconut, so that statement cant be made with any certainty.
Identifying the fibres to the species would be interesting, for sure.

 

[Smithbrown]

Well it wasn't close to more than a 100 properties. But you do know that none of those counties are in "Norse Scotland"?

 

[lokiblossom]

Well it wasn't close to more than a 100 properties. But you do know that none of those counties are in "Norse Scotland"?

Please read several posts back and you wanted me to post all 100? I did say many others. The number 100 comes from a very respected Templar historian.
Cheers, Loki

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

Why would anybody, certainly as wealthy as the Templars use 400 year old packing material. I can show you a report that claims it begins to rot within 20 years if wet. It was mentioned in the W.H. report that what was there was rotted.Cheers, Loki

How would the Templars know how old the coconut fiber was? (or did they too have carbon dating?) The existence of many hundreds of years coconut fiber lying near a beach means that it doesn't all rot when wet.

In regards to your statement about your belief that Templars visited the island but you don't necessarily believe in the treasure hoax is good to hear.

With all of the other folks that visited Oak Island over the years, it is very possible the Templars did just as the Norse, British, Portugese, Spanish, French, Michael Jackson, etc...

 

[lokiblossom]

The problem with the samples obtained by Woods Hole were so decomposed that even identifying the species (coconut) was not possible. New samples would have to be found, preferably by someone independent of the Lagina boys.
There have (apparently) been other studies done of other samples that have positively ID'd samples as coconut, or some sort of palm. People have taken this as proof of pre-Columbus contact with the New World, as (according to some) at the time that the fibres were dated to there were no coconuts in the New World. This is a fairly flimsy claim to make. There is still some debate into the existence of an American species prior to the domestication of the coconut, so that statement cant be made with any certainty.
Identifying the fibres to the species would be interesting, for sure.

You should read the actual reports before you say that and btw Woods Hole did not do the dating. I think the debate is over as several experts have put together a report on the subject.
Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

There were at least three reports that positively identified the coconut fibre, I quoted them a little while ago. I'm not going to quote something multiple times so please read back. I said or meant they would't be any good for their original purpose after 20 years.
Cheers, Loki

The accuracy of Carbon-14 dating goes down if the samples are "corrupted".
These samples were corrupted in one way or another, and the results can not be considered accurate.

 

[Smithbrown]

So you never bothered to check the location of the 100 properties? Tsk tsk. You see, you just make these assumptions all the time. And I assume you do not realize these places are NOT in Norse Scotland. So tell us, Loki, where exactly are the Scottish Knight Templars and the Scottish Norse cavorting together?

 

[lokiblossom]

How would the Templars know how old the coconut fiber was? (or did they too have carbon dating?) The existence of many hundreds of years coconut fiber lying near a beach means that it doesn't all rot when wet.

In regards to your statement about your belief that Templars visited the island but you don't necessarily believe in the treasure hoax is good to hear.

With all of the other folks that visited Oak Island over the years, it is very possible the Templars did just as the Norse, British, Portugese, Spanish, French, Michael Jackson, etc...

I would think that an experienced eye would be able to tell. Thanks at least for your last sentence.
Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

The accuracy of Carbon-14 dating goes down if the samples are "corrupted".
These samples were corrupted in one way or another, and the results can not be considered accurate.

You should try to learn at least a little about the C-14 process.
Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

Umm, sorry ECS but I do know that, but most of Scotland had Norse influence. Even with Norway losing direct control of the Western Isles in 1266, the Norse influence certainly continued. Recent DNA studies have confirmed that Somerled the Lord of Argyll in the 12th century was of Norse descent in his paternal line with a tentative marker of Viking descent. He married Raghnailt, herself of Norse, Viking descent. I could go into the percentage of Norse DNA throughout Scotland but maybe later. have to save some stuff.
Cheers, Loki

I can go on about Norse DNA in northern Holland, of which I am a descendent, doesn't make the Norse Dutch Templers, but then again, maybe they did sail to Nova Scotia to dig a pit with their earthworks acumen.

 

[Roadhse2]

No...you said....as Singlestack quoted you...

"I can show you a report that claims it begins to rot within 20 years if wet. "

Nothing to do with suitability for any purpose...so that question still remains...how were you offered any from the 1500's, if it was so fragile as to degrade within 20 years when wet? Even if dry, according to that logic, it wouldn't last 500 years beyond a crumbly/powdered state...But if it did last that long, then my premise of it being used even 300 years later is also right...Can't be both...it did or didn't

 

[ECS]

You should try to learn at least a little about the C-14 process.
Cheers, Loki

You should too!

 

[lokiblossom]

So you never bothered to check the location of the 100 properties? Tsk tsk. You see, you just make these assumptions all the time. And I assume you do not realize these places are NOT in Norse Scotland. So tell us, Loki, where exactly are the Scottish Knight Templars and the Scottish Norse cavorting together?

All of Scotland has Norse connections. My gg grandmother from Paisley had Norse connections.
Cheers, Loki

 

[Smithbrown]

And your GG grandmother was alive in 1300? Wow, Loki, you are older than I thought. Sadly when you are talking about 13-14th centuries, Norse influence is much more confined. You really should try doing more serious research before you start writing books. Which reminds me, has that book been published yet? I think it is two years since you first told us all you were publishing it.

 

[ECS]

All of Scotland has Norse connections. My gg grandmother from Paisley had Norse connections.
Cheers, Loki

Does that translate into "TEMPLER CONNECTION" in your world?

 

[Roadhse2]

Another question...

How can anything that is reported to begin rotting when wet within 20 years....be dated at all after laying in and under water for a 1000? What stops this process of rotting for it even to exist?

I call BS on that report if you are also going to pin your theory on coir found and dated to the period of 1100, it would not be in a"rotted condition" it would be gone all together.

 

[ECS]

All of Scotland has Norse connections...

The same can be stated about Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, and Greenland.
So, what is your point?