Oak Island: Was something even there.

[Pippin]

Loki so your guessing that the Templars moved their base to the Annapolis Basin around 1500 or so. Here lies the problem. If they were celibate and didn't bring women with them they either found the fountain of youth or were so advanced that they cloned themselves. They were mighty old dudes.

 

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[NewAge]

New Age here's a link to a research paper by Wallace complete with her email address if your interested. Apparently she thinks Vinland is the Bay of Chaleur, New Brunswick. Its a long read but interesting.

http://faraheim.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/LAM-Leif-Erikssons-Home-in-Vinland.pdf

Thanks I haven't checked your link yet but have been reading a lot about a couple different sites in that general area lately.And should get some time this w/e to check it out in depth.

I have found in my recent reading how experts proceed very cautiously and refuse to admit anything until they are 100% sure.I have yet to see where experts mentioned dowsing once or try and pass it off as evidence and start preparing a press conference to go "public".I guess this is the difference in an expert and an amateur.

I had to chuckle at a quote by one archeologist that went something like this "It is either Norse or something very Norse like.We just don't know yet"

Also,I was actually looking for a way to contact Wallace so double thanks for that.

 

[lokiblossom]

Loki so your guessing that the Templars moved their base to the Annapolis Basin around 1500 or so. Here lies the problem. If they were celibate and didn't bring women with them they either found the fountain of youth or were so advanced that they cloned themselves. They were mighty old dudes.

We have both recently used the word assimilate. When Lewis and Clark stopped at the Mandan village in 1804 they could very well have stayed and lived there and had families.

Cheers, Loki

 

[Andy Nunez]

Interesting you mention the Mandan Indians. There was a suspicion by painter George Catlin that the Mandans were descendants of Prince Madoc of Wales, who came over here in the 12th century. Traditionally, he was supposed to have landed on the Gulf Coast somewhere, perhaps travelling up the Mississippi. There is little evidence of this, but a strong tradition and Catlin remarked on the eye coloring of the Mandans and their language, which he felt was similar to Welsh. Some believe Madoc was inspired by the stories of St. Brendan and his voyage to the Blessed Isles, as well as the Norse expeditions. If there was any truth to the voyage of Madoc, it may well have been known to the Templars, certainly to the Scots like Henry Sinclair. Does this have anything to do with Oak Island? Probably not, but it shows how these legends get started.

 

[lokiblossom]

Interesting you mention the Mandan Indians. There was a suspicion by painter George Catlin that the Mandans were descendants of Prince Madoc of Wales, who came over here in the 12th century. Traditionally, he was supposed to have landed on the Gulf Coast somewhere, perhaps travelling up the Mississippi. There is little evidence of this, but a strong tradition and Catlin remarked on the eye coloring of the Mandans and their language, which he felt was similar to Welsh. Some believe Madoc was inspired by the stories of St. Brendan and his voyage to the Blessed Isles, as well as the Norse expeditions. If there was any truth to the voyage of Madoc, it may well have been known to the Templars, certainly to the Scots like Henry Sinclair. Does this have anything to do with Oak Island? Probably not, but it shows how these legends get started.

Yeah, some Mandans had blue eyes and their features are somewhat European. I think part of the question was resolved, but not all agreed. I'll have to look back into that. They were certainly friendly and helpful to the "Core of Discovery".

Cheers, Loki

 

[Pippin]

Loki when I talk of assimilation I mean an adoption and total immersion in the Mi'kmaq community. They are no longer Templars but Mi'kmaq. If the Templars had a settlement in New Ross for 200 years they would have left a very large footprint, much larger than a few foundation walls. The place where it is assumed that their settlement was is postage stamp size. I'm not saying they weren't there but if they were celibate it would have died out within a few years. Even if they bred with the local population your looking at at least 6 generations of dilution so the resulting population in 1500 wouldn't really be European but Mi'kmaq. But yet there's no oral history of the settlement.

Could you move this discussion to its own thread. I would but don't know how. Thank you.

 

[rowanns]

Loki thanks for the reply. I'm assuming the Portuguese your referring to the João Álvares Fagundes settlement along the Clyburn River in Ingonish Cape Breton. I believe a settlement was attempted in 1521 or there abouts and lasted a year or two until the harsh winters and hostile locals forced them to abandon. But to be fair the winters there were far more severe than the winters in New Ross. They would have been landlocked until mid to late May with first the bay freezing over and then the pack ice moving in. They had too much stacked against them. As for the Basque they had seasonal shore camps and I have on good authority that they were here much earlier than 1500.

New Ross is another story though and I can see that working out. Its on the edge of the Bay of Fundy snow effect so although it gets quite a bit of snow its not as bad as say at Aldersville further inland. If you think of it, it would make a great place to get lost at. Just enough inland so that camp smoke isn't spotted from the bay, surprisingly it has good soil, the river would have seasonal runs of eel and salmon and enough wild game to get by for a few years. The key would be getting along with the Mi'kmaq. If they did they wouldn't have a problem at all. So yes I can see them picking that spot.

So you feel that they stayed for a 100 years or so and then when things got a little dicey decided to move camp and set up in Port Royal. Can I assume that they would have brought women with them? Then I imagine they would have been assimilated into the local First Nation population. Have you done any DNA research on the hapolgroups of the Mi'kmaq or the early Acadian women. Acadian oral and written history tells us that many of the early women were First Nation. However recent MTDNA findings are coming up with European hapolgroups for many of them. But the thing that interests me is how unusual these hapolgroups are. I'm talking about Orkney, Basque Druze hapolgroups. It could be admixtures from these Templars or others entering the local population. Maybe you should look into that.

Here's something else to think about. When Champlain and his crew first touched down in Port Royal he was met by the great chief of the Mi'kmaq Henri Membertou. Its was a cordial welcome and it opened the way for the great friendship between the Acadians and the Mi'kmaq of Port Royal. I don't know but it appears that this seems a bit unusual, almost like a meeting of long lost family. This quote I'm attaching describes the appearance of Membertou.

"Father Biard, one of the Jesuits who came to Port-Royal in 1611 wrote: “This was the greatest, most renowned and most formidable [native person] within the memory of man; of splendid physique, taller and larger-limbed than is usual among them; bearded like a Frenchman, although scarcely any of the others have hair upon the chin; grave and reserved; feeling a proper sense of dignity for his position as commander.”

He looks like a Frenchman eh.

Hi Pippin, if memory serves me correctly, I believe Membertou was also referenced as having blue eyes. I'll dig for that source. The hapolgroup information you have provided has now sent me on another hunt. Fascinating and thank you for this post!