Randall Sullivan's book

[rabidus]

How do we know that?

They have not told us it came from a private collector. If there is no provenience for the stone it could of come from anywhere... Maybe the guy who sold it to them just made one in order to try to get some money from the Laginas. Maybe the TV show producers made it. How can we possibly trust that it is the one from the bookshop without the back story.

You are right on all counts here.

The fact that they are also lying about what initials have been reported on the stone also suggest that they do not really believe it is the original stone. Otherwise why not tell the truth.

If they are not willing to tell the truth of how they come in possession of the stone (or more to the point lie about it) why should anyone assume the cross was not also moved to make a better story.

Oddly, the initials being "wrong" lead me to believe they didn't fake it. If they were going to go through to trouble of faking the stone, wouldn't they use the initials from the only written account? Why have a nondescript stone with initials as described but then make the initials different? If it was a fake, it would have R.M. on it. But their account that Boydain said it had L.N. seems completely fabricated. Or at least, I haven't ever seen any documentation that he said that.

I would love the stone to be real... But they are lying... Why? It makes zero sense if they believe it was the actual stone. They could of told the real story without revealing the persons name they got it from. They could of just said "we have come into possession of the stone but cannot reveal the source due to confidentiality agreement"

Agreed wholeheartedly.

Everything else about the origin of there stone is now pure speculation... Who started the rumor is was purchased from a private collector?

For all I know, I started this rumor online. Although someone else on this forum said they heard the same. Not sure their source. I was at a conference a couple of years ago in Minneapolis (or maybe Dallas, can't recall exactly). I was having a smoke outside and struck up a conversation with someone from Mahone Bay. I used to spend Summers there so we hit it off. He told me that the Lagina's had found the stone and were in negotiations to acquire it over the past year. I honestly didn't believe it until this season, when the stone appeared. That would mean negotiations started almost three years ago. To me, it's a lot more believable that they acquired the stone from someone than finding it where dozens of searchers have already looked over the past 100 years.

Was it the show?

The guy I heard it from was not connected to the show but did know people that worked on it.

The point being they are lying and planting evidence... The stone was not found sitting in the shop basement.. Therefore it was planted... Right?

Yes, I feel it was definitely planted. We just don't know the source of the stone and for reasons stated above, I don't think they created it.

 

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[franklin]

If the stone had indeed been used for years to cut leather on then the letters could have worn off. You can get "LN" out of the "DM" once worn down.

 

[Robot]

Ken Raymond

Ken Raymond is our book editor. He joined The Oklahoman in 1999. He has won dozens of state, regional and national writing awards. Three times he has been named the state's "overall best" writer by the Society of Professional Journalists.

Condensed Version...Full Version: https://newsok.com/article/5620034/...lds-longest-treasure-hunt-by-randall-sullivan





The best service Sullivan provides is a timeline that illustrates the impossibility of certain scenarios that are given unwarranted consideration on the show, but the writing and research are stout throughout. I don't often say this about books, but I did not want this one to end.
It's not much of a spoiler to say that if Sullivan favors any theory, it's that Francis Bacon — whom some believe was the actual author of Shakespeare's plays — may have engineered the mechanisms on Oak Island or at least provided information that others drew on. He points to an obscure Bacon manuscript that effectively describes how to turn an island into an underground treasure vault complete with flood tunnels.
As for the island's supposed curse, Sullivan believes it's true. Six men have died trying to expose the island's secrets, and other people have been injured, driven mad or financially ruined. He feels that something isn't right on the island and relates the story of one longtime searcher who thinks what's hidden on the island is the gate to hell. Fabulous? Yes. But fascinating nonetheless.

 

[Stretch Da Truth]

He points to an obscure Bacon manuscript that effectively describes how to turn an island into an underground treasure vault complete with flood tunnels.

Do you have a link to this? I would like to see it.

 

[rabidus]

Do you have a link to this? I would like to see it.

I just searched the book and believe this is what he's referring to.

"The Omaha lawyer (Thomas Penn Leary) had drawn heavily on one of Bacon’s lesser-known works, Sylva Sylvarum: Or, a Natural History in Ten Centuries. The detailed description of Bacon’s ideas about preserving manuscripts in mercury did seem curious, especially since Bacon didn’t really explain why one would want to preserve manuscripts in some underground vault for centuries. The directions in Sylva Sylvarum of how to create “an Artificiall Spring,” though, gave me pause. Leary made a compelling case that what Bacon had described was a very close match to the actual construction of the flood system that flowed to the Money Pit from Smith’s Cove: it should be made of a “Trough of Stone” with one end upon high ground and the other on low, that was covered with “Brakes” (which in Bacon’s day would have meant thickets of fern) over which was laid sand. All that was missing was the coconut fiber.

Sullivan, Randall. The Curse of Oak Island . Grove Atlantic. Kindle Edition. "


Leary wrote a booklet in 1953 called "The Oak Island Enigma: A History and Inquiry into the Origin of the Money Pit"

Link to Sylva Sylvarum. I haven't read it yet.

https://archive.org/details/sylvasylvarumorn00baco/page/n11

 

[gazzahk]

If the stone had indeed been used for years to cut leather on then the letters could have worn off. You can get "LN" out of the "DM" once worn down.

JM not DM (but it does illustrate how easy initials get confused in people memories)

 

[rabidus]

JM not DM (but it does illustrate how easy initials get confused in people memories)

Great point. I think Marshall wrote his account 10-15 years after he last saw the stone. He easily could have misremembered the actual initials. I still think the stone the Lagina's have now was the same one at A.H. Creightons. Nice little piece of history but doesn't help them really.

 

[Stretch Da Truth]

Thanks rabidus. I will look for more info.
Funny how mercury is tied into old civilizations when it is basically liquid death!

 

[rabidus]

I just searched the book and believe this is what he's referring to.

"The Omaha lawyer (Thomas Penn Leary) had drawn heavily on one of Bacon’s lesser-known works, Sylva Sylvarum: Or, a Natural History in Ten Centuries. The detailed description of Bacon’s ideas about preserving manuscripts in mercury did seem curious, especially since Bacon didn’t really explain why one would want to preserve manuscripts in some underground vault for centuries. The directions in Sylva Sylvarum of how to create “an Artificiall Spring,” though, gave me pause. Leary made a compelling case that what Bacon had described was a very close match to the actual construction of the flood system that flowed to the Money Pit from Smith’s Cove: it should be made of a “Trough of Stone” with one end upon high ground and the other on low, that was covered with “Brakes” (which in Bacon’s day would have meant thickets of fern) over which was laid sand. All that was missing was the coconut fiber.

Sullivan, Randall. The Curse of Oak Island . Grove Atlantic. Kindle Edition. "

I started reading Sylva Sylvarum. Not sure why but it does a good job of putting me to sleep at night. The book is a collection of hundreds of experiments and anecdotes relating to various sciences. Each numbered.

Interestingly, the very first and second entries talks about the "artificial spring". However, its purpose is to describe how to make potable water from seawater.

1 - "DIG a pit upon the seashore, somewhat above the highwater mark, and sink it as deep as the lowwater mark ; and as the tide cometh in, it will fill with water, fresh and potable. This is commonly practised upon the coast of Barbary, where other fresh water is wanting. And Caesar knew this well when he was besieged in Alexandria : for by digging of pits in the seashore, he did frustrate the laborious works of the enemies, which had turned the seawater upon the wells of Alexandria ; and so saved his army, being then in desperation. But Caesar mistook the cause, for he thought that all seasands had natural springs of fresh water. But it is plain that it is the seawater ; because the pit filleth according to the measure of the tide ; 2 and the seawater passing or straining through the sands leaveth the saltness."

2 - I remember to have read that trial hath been made of salt water passed through earth, through ten vessels one within another, and yet it hath not lost his saltness, as to become potable : but the same man saith, that (by the relation of another) salt water drained through twenty vessels hath become fresh. 1 This experiment seemeth to cross that other of pits made by the seaside ; and yet but in part, if it be true that twenty repetitions do the effect. But it is worth the note, how poor the imitations of nature are in common course of experiments, except they be led by great judgment, and some good light of axioms. For first, there is no small difference between a passage of water through twenty small vessels, and through such a distance as between the lowwater and highwater mark. Secondly, there is a great difference between earth and sand ; for all earth hath in it a kind of nitrous salt, from which sand is more free ; and besides earth doth not strain the water so finely as sand doth. But there is a third point that I suspect as much or more than the other two ; and that is, that in the experiment of transmission of the seawater into the pits the water riseth ; but in the experiment of transmission of the water through the vessels it falleth. Now, certain it is that the salter part of water (once salted throughout) goeth to the bottom. And therefore no marvel if the draining of water by descent doth not make it fresh. Besides, I do somewhat doubt that the very dashing of the water that cometh from the sea is more proper to strike off the salt part, than where the water slideth of her own motion."

After reading about a 10th of the book and not finding anything about mercury preserving documents, I did a search for 'mercury' and 'quicksilver'. I did find it interesting the entry #100 (1 and 100, some type of code? ) talks about preservation and mentions parchment and quicksliver. However, no mention of preserving documents in a man made spring. He does mention though that it will be revisited during conservation of bodies.

100 - There is nothing more certain in nature than that it is impossible for any body to be utterly annihilated ; but that as it was the work of the omnipotency of God to make somewhat of nothing, so it requireth the like omnipotency to turn somewhat into nothing. And therefore it is well said by an obscure writer of the sect of the chemists, that there is no such way to effect the strange transmutations of bodies, as to endeavour and urge by all means the reducing of them to nothing. And herein is contained also a i See Paracelsus, De Nymph. Sylph. Pygmse. et Salam. great secret of preservation of bodies from change; for if you can prohibit, that they neither turn into air, because no air cometh to them ; nor go into the bodies adjacent, because they are utterly heterogeneal : nor make a round and circulation within themselves ; they will never change, though they be in their nature never so perishable or mutable. We see how Hies, and spiders, and the like, get a sepulchre in amber, more durable than the monument and embalming of the body of any king. And I conceive the like will be of bodies put into quicksilver. But then they must be but thin, as a leaf, or a piece of paper or parchment ; for if they have a greater crassitude, they will alter in their own body, though they spend not. But of this we shall speak more when we handle the title of conservation of bodies."

Searched for the conservation of bodies section and found entry 771. Unfortunately, it breaks the brief 1-100 pattern. No mention in this section about preserving document, just bodies. Certainly, nothing regarding an artificial spring.

771 - "...I remember Livy doth relate, that there were found at a time two coffins of lead in a tomb ; whereof the one contained the body of King Numa ; it being some four hundred years after his death ; and the other, his books of sacred rites and ceremonies, and the discipline of the pontiffs ; and that in the coffin that had the body, there was nothing at all to be seen, but a little light cinders about the sides ; but in the coffin that had the books, they were found as fresh as if they had been but newly written, being written in parchment, and covered over with watch-candles of wax three or four fold. By this it seemeth that the Romans in Numa's time were not so good embalmers as the Egyptians were ; which was the cause that the body was utterly consumed. But I find in Plutarch and others, that when Augustus Ca?sar visited the sepulchre of Alexander the Great in Alexandria, he found the body to keep his dimension ; but withal, that notwithstanding all the embalming, (which no doubt was of the best,) the body was so tender, as Cassar, touching but the nose of it, defaced it. 1 Which maketh me find it very strange, that the Egyptian mummies should be reported to be as hard as stonepitch ; l for I find no difference but one, which indeed may be very material, namely that the ancient Egyptian mummies were shrouded in a number of folds of linen, besmeared with gums, in manner of sear-cloth ; which it doth not appear was practised upon the body of Alexander. Experiment solitary touching the abundance of nitre in certain sea-shores."

Bacon, Francis. Sylva Sylvarum, or a Natural History in Ten Centuries: A Fine 1627 Edition (Illustrated) . www.WealthOfNation.com. Kindle Edition.

So, admittedly I never read the whole thing and could have missed something. But it looks like this work of random facts and experiments does mention how to create an artificial spring and that you can preserve parchment (and bodies) in mercury, but doesn't tie them together at all. Just random facts. Skipping this for now and going to read Thomas Penn Leary's short book to see how he tied this together. I'm guessing very loosely. Would have been nice if Sullivan commented on this instead of that measly paragraph.

But.. based on this and what's on Smith's cove.. I have a new theory. Inhabitants on Oak Island didn't have fresh water and didn't find any when digging a well. Someone had this knowledge of the artificial spring and created a drain system using coconut fibre as filters. The money pit is where they dug the well and the fresh water that was filtered would sit on top of the salt water, giving them access to drinking water. The block and tackle held the bucket they used to retrieve the water and the pick marks noticed on the side of the pit was the original digging of the well. It was primitive and not well structured. There were never logs every 10 feet or a stone. Just an old well.

 

[sasquash]

Breaking news, mystery solved !

But.. based on this and what's on Smith's cove.. I have a new theory. Inhabitants on Oak Island didn't have fresh water and didn't find any when digging a well. Someone had this knowledge of the artificial spring and created a drain system using coconut fibre as filters. The money pit is where they dug the well and the fresh water that was filtered would sit on top of the salt water, giving them access to drinking water. The block and tackle held the bucket they used to retrieve the water and the pick marks noticed on the side of the pit was the original digging of the well. It was primitive and not well structured. There were never logs every 10 feet or a stone. Just an old well.

You resolved the mystery of O.I.
I think it's will be in the last episode ...
Well done !

 

[n2mini]

but does your theory still need the box drains to go all the way to the Money Pit which most on here don't think happened and no one has ever found proof they do go that far back... I like the theory but why dig the pit so far away, and unless at that time the water level in the pit was much lower then currently is, how did the fresh water end up on top of the sea water? ( I'm assuming it would stay on top if put in above the sea water but I'm not a water expert and guessing it would not flow to the top if put in under water )

 

[rabidus]

but does your theory still need the box drains to go all the way to the Money Pit which most on here don't think happened and no one has ever found proof they do go that far back... I like the theory but why dig the pit so far away, and unless at that time the water level in the pit was much lower then currently is, how did the fresh water end up on top of the sea water? ( I'm assuming it would stay on top if put in above the sea water but I'm not a water expert and guessing it would not flow to the top if put in under water )

It was mostly a theory in jest. But running with it... Yeah, the drains would need to go to the money pit. Perhaps due to the lower water level back then, it wasn't as onerous a task to mine straight from Smith's cove to the MP area as it would be today. Or, Bacon mentions that salt water filtered through 10 vessels didn't properly filter the water but going through 20 vessels did. I have no idea what a vessel would mean but perhaps that would be the minimum distance needed to filter out water for drinking?

Bacon mentions in other parts of the text that salt water has a much higher density than freshwater, so presumably the freshwater would be on top of the ocean water. However, you are correct in that I'm not sure it would float to the top if it started mixed in the bottom. Perhaps we have a hydrologist on here that could weigh in. It may be possible though that there isn't water from the south shore and the well/pit was only receiving filtered sea water, so all the water ending up in that area was drinkable?