Templers to NA before Columbus, "Ground breaking History"?

[Steamboat]

If the Templars were proven to have come to North America before Columbus, and I don't think they did, it would NOT be "Ground breaking History" any more than the Vikings coming in 1000AD was ground breaking history.
Among other things, the Historian looks at "What happened", "Why it happened" and "Results from what happened".
What were the results of the Vikings? They came, they went, they left some oral stories. That deserves a footnote in the history books, but little more.
If the Templars came before Columbus, what were the results? Not much. Maybe a lot of digging on Oak Island and a TV show.
Now when Columbus came to America there were tremendous results. I won't even begin to try to describe the world changing results of Columbus' discovery of NA.
So, IF the Templars came to NA before Columbus, it might get a footnote in the history book, but little more.

 

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[Icewing]

Except Christopher Columbus never once set foot on and thus (IMO) did not discover North America (at least not the parts that are now the USA, Mexico, or Canada), yet for some stupid reason Columbus Day is a (US) "National Holiday".

On top of that how does one person get credit for "discovering" 2 continents where millions of people already live?

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Cuba is considered part of North America. But still, where he did set foot he thought he was in Asia.

And yes, there were LOTS of people who were living happily before he arrived and MANY fewer afterwards. Not a real hero in my book.

 

[Red James Cash]

Columbus and his followers were psychopaths anyway.screw him.

 

[releventchair]

Cuba is considered part of North America. But still, where he did set foot he thought he was in Asia.

And yes, there were LOTS of people who were living happily before he arrived and MANY fewer afterwards. Not a real hero in my book.

Time I got of that forsaken forever voyage watercraft I would have declared any place we landed as either Heaven , or paradise.
After kissing the ground. Even if it was in the arctic !

 

[Steamboat]

The whole point is, Columbus' voyage and discovery resulted in huge changes in world history. Europeans who may have come before him did not have any significant results.

 

[franklin]

Columbus did very little himself except for his crew taking him up on charges of abusing the people on the Islands as slaves.

 

[Grizz12]

Its shameful how some people can't discuss American history without expressing hatred towards those involved in Founding this great Country

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

If by "founding" you mean displacing or enslaving the locals and occupying territory as the prior owners vacated or died off. Yeah, they did a good job.

Shame the Basque and Scandinavians just stopped by to trade and fish offshore and never got around to founding all over the locals.

But that is nature's way. Out bite 'em or out breed 'em. More successful organisms thrive on the misfortune or unsuitability of the hosts or prey. Good to be on the winning side . . . so far.

Better start learning Spanish, though. ;-)

 

[Red James Cash]

Its shameful how some people can't discuss American history without expressing hatred towards those involved in Founding this great Country

Lets see how was Columbus involved in founding this country.By hunting Indians with dogs,nope that ain't it.By feeding his hunting dogs indians,nope that ain't it.By cutting the hands and noses off Indians for failing to produce their share of gold tribute,nope that ain't it.Basically exterminating a population from 2 million give or take down to 20,000.Yup Columbus did wonderful things in the quest for slaves and gold.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

In the Bahamas. He never made it as far north as Florida or onto the soil of what is now the USA.

The Chinese and Russians were more likely on US soil before then as well (on the West Coast). Definitely the Polynesians had been.

There has been some great work on DNA found in - of all things - chicken bones and eggshells. In the early 1300's someone had introduced chickens (native to India and China) to South America and all along the Pacific Islands long before then.

 

[rabidus]

If the Templars were proven to have come to North America before Columbus, and I don't think they did, it would NOT be "Ground breaking History" any more than the Vikings coming in 1000AD was ground breaking history.
Among other things, the Historian looks at "What happened", "Why it happened" and "Results from what happened".
What were the results of the Vikings? They came, they went, they left some oral stories. That deserves a footnote in the history books, but little more.
If the Templars came before Columbus, what were the results? Not much. Maybe a lot of digging on Oak Island and a TV show.
Now when Columbus came to America there were tremendous results. I won't even begin to try to describe the world changing results of Columbus' discovery of NA.
So, IF the Templars came to NA before Columbus, it might get a footnote in the history book, but little more.

From Wiki: "A historian is a person who studies and writes about the past, and is regarded as an authority on it. Historians are concerned with the continuous, methodical narrative and research of past events as relating to the human race; as well as the study of all history in time." Not seeing where the 'result" is all that matters?

I think you're looking at this only from the viewpoint of American history. In which case you are correct. The Columbus voyage kick started everything that would shape America the country. However, to say it is not "ground breaking history" I think minimizes many others in the world.

I argue that proof the vikings were in NA with the discovery of the settlement at L'Anse aux Meadows ground breaking. It proved that some of the Icelandic Sagas are likely real and referencing North America which is certainly ground breaking for Icelanders and viking decedents.

It proves that there was European knowledge of the North American continent floating around as early as the 11th or 12th century, calling in to question many of the tropes we all learned growing up. Re-evaluating how education is taught in many countries to better teach facts, not fairy tales.

It adds credence and context to Canadian First Nation's tribes oral history.

It also paves the way for a Templar theory to be possible. You might think that is just a footnote in history but the Templars were one of the most powerful organizations in the world, then just disappeared. There are a lot of theories that don't include Scotland and NS. Many think they ended up in Croatia or Hungary. Figuring out exactly what happened would be pretty ground breaking for historians and decedents of the Templars. What if the stories of the temple mount are true? If the Templars did have the menorah, ark and cup, determining what happened to the Templars could lead to their recovery. Certainly ground breaking impacts for Christianity and Judaism.

So if all you care about his how America was formed. Sure, nothing ground breaking here. If you care about culture, history or religion then it could lead to some pretty ground breaking stuff.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

You might think that is just a footnote in history but the Templars were one of the most powerful organizations in the world, then just disappeared.

So it was with the Aleksandrovich royal family. One of the most powerful and wealthiest families (Nicholas II had a estimated net worth equivalent to $300 billion) in the world in 1917 and gone entirely by 1918. Poof.



Saaaaay. Maybe it's buried on Oak Island?

 

[Grizz12]

If by "founding" you mean displacing or enslaving the locals and occupying territory as the prior owners vacated or died off. Yeah, they did a good job.

Shame the Basque and Scandinavians just stopped by to trade and fish offshore and never got around to founding all over the locals.

But that is nature's way. Out bite 'em or out breed 'em. More successful organisms thrive on the misfortune or unsuitability of the hosts or prey. Good to be on the winning side . . . so far.

Better start learning Spanish, though. ;-)

Lets see how was Columbus involved in founding this country.By hunting Indians with dogs,nope that ain't it.By feeding his hunting dogs indians,nope that ain't it.By cutting the hands and noses off Indians for failing to produce their share of gold tribute,nope that ain't it.Basically exterminating a population from 2 million give or take down to 20,000.Yup Columbus did wonderful things in the quest for slaves and gold.

Funny how each generation finds more atrocities that the previous generations didn't know about - could they be made up by people who hate America

I know you don't understand the history of the world but to put it simply, the strongest almost always take from the weakest. The US, being the strongest Country in the world, does not do that today. Heck we could easily invade all of south America and they would not be able to stop us, but we dont do that stuff now. Actually we are under an invasion today from south American countries, an unarmed invasion which is sure to destroy our Country and turn us into the same third world sh@* holes they are.

Taking land from North American Indians was wrong but they did not have the unity or firepower to defend what they had. Thats was the way of the world back then. And the result was the greatest Country the world has ever seen in the shortest amount of time.

You don't have to agree with the details but what was done, is done and you can't change that.

America and Americans 1st

 

[rabidus]

So it was with the Aleksandrovich royal family. One of the most powerful and wealthiest families (Nicholas II had a estimated net worth equivalent to $300 billion) in the world in 1917 and gone entirely by 1918. Poof.



Saaaaay. Maybe it's buried on Oak Island?

I suggest you write a book with 15 pages describing the 'three boys' discovery. Don't forget the tackle block! 100 pages describing the last 200 years of searches. 20 pages summarizing Curse of Oak Island and various theories. 25 pages on the history of the Aleksandrovich royal family. Then 10 pages saying prior to his death, Grigori Rasputin secreted all of the wealth away and smuggled it aboard a British freighter to be thrown down a shaft on Oak Island. Since there is already a pit there that nobody can recover treasure from. The Boney M hit song wasn't about his sexual prowess, but a euphemism for his cunning to secret away the treasure. Publish and print dolla dolla bills.

 

[lokiblossom]

In the Bahamas. He never made it as far north as Florida or onto the soil of what is now the USA.

The Chinese and Russians were more likely on US soil before then as well (on the West Coast). Definitely the Polynesians had been.

The Polynesians? on U.S. soil before 1492, that's news to me. There is the story of the sweet potato!


Cheers, Loki

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Do I get a seat in the "War Room"?

I can even buy like a silver samovar off ebaY and say it's old and, dare I say, Templar!

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I know you don't understand the history of the world but to put it simply, the strongest almost always take from the weakest.

Better than you think, apparently. Did you read what I posted and you quoted?

The US, being the strongest Country in the world, does not do that today.

Oh yeah. We never ever send carrier groups or troops and sell weapons to our allies and manipulate with policy. We just give arms and funds to guys like the Shah of Iran or the Mujaheddin so the same guys we trained and equipped can use them against us as the Home Guard or Al Qaeda a few years later. We just don't occupy the territory directly.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

The Polynesians? on U.S. soil before 1492, that's news to me. There is the story of the sweet potato!


Cheers, Loki

And the chicken. It doesn't migrate or fly especially well. But there are chicken bones in Peru sites that date to the 1300's. The DNA matches chickens that evolved from Gallus gallus (the wild jungle fowl ) of China and was transported East by Polynesians. Araucana is the name of a chicken AND a local "tribe" in Chile.

And Hawaii is USA Soil. ;-) (though also to the South American continent).

As Storey and colleagues report in another article in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the site has been confidently dated to 700-1390 AD, meaning these bones are the earliest evidence of chickens in the Americas, having arrived at least a century before Columbus. Radiocarbon dates, isotope information, and mitochondrial DNA all agree with the archaeological evidence of a pre-Columbian introduction of domesticated chicken to South America.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristi...ow-chickens-got-to-the-americas/#72a18fc056db

Some archaeologists believe that chickens were first introduced to the New World by Polynesians who reached the Pacific coast of South America a century or so before the voyages of Columbus.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-the-chicken-conquered-the-world-87583657/

Geneticists have since (c.2012) confirmed the traits of the bones and eggshells as closer to the Asia strains.

 

[Red James Cash]

Funny how each generation finds more atrocities that the previous generations didn't know about - could they be made up by people who hate America

If you read ships logs and letters you would know the truth too instead of believing the big bunch of B.S. you were taught in school.And yes the U.S. still does that.Think about it.Google 7 countries in 5 years.