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Thread: dedicated to b3y0nd3r : An example of a treasure legend evolution :

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  1. #1

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
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    dedicated to b3y0nd3r : An example of a treasure legend evolution :

    This post is dedicated to b3y0nd3r. Whom I respect very much for his critical look at what I'm saying. I hope I've given his stances an equally fair shake. Here is a true story, of exactly how I believe that legends like O.I. can get started. And how they can end up with exactly the same type cross-examining, that we find ourselves in today :

    There is a city called "Gilroy" near me. About 12 or 13 yrs. ago, the city tore out all the oldtown sidewalks , to make way for new sidewalks. A buddy of mine who lives there was "all over it". Since, of course, he wanted to detect for coins @ this sidewalk demolition (the yesteryear wooden and dirt paths beneath the concrete). Every fews days, the workers would progress to another section of each block. This was to go on for a few months. Progressing their way down multiple blocks on one side of the street, and then back down the other side of the street. Till eventually the entire downtown would be done.

    But he ran into a problem: It turns out that the workers would tear out a few-storefront's lengths in the morning before lunch. Then after lunch, they'd cement over that stretch. If my friend waited till 5pm, it would be too late So he was forced to go during their lunch hour, when the dirt was exposed.

    But this presented problems. Since, of course, someone could tell him "scram" . For being inside the orange ribboned/coned area. So he had to play his cards very carefully. He would pass out common IH's, V's, etc... to the curious workers. After awhile, he became the common sight there, and was ignored as harmless. And at the conclusion of each day's lunch break, they would curiously come over to see what his latest finds were.

    One day, my friend found a gold colored owl shaped amulet charm thing. About the size of a chess piece. When it came time for the curious workers to check on that day's finds, he showed them a few coins, junk items, etc... Then when he got to the owl charm thing, he mused "Might be gold". The workers were floored ! Then he pointed to some red jewels where the owl's eyes were and told them "Might be rubies". Their fascination grew even more ! And then my friend mused "from the 1800's" (since that was the date range of some of coins). Now they were just over the top !

    That night, my friend went to sort his finds. When he got the owl thing under magnification, he determined that it was only gold plated. Not gold. And the red chips in the eyes were just glass chips. Not rubies. In other words, he'd just found 1920s costume jewelry junk. And promptly threw it in the trash.

    The next day, he was back out there again . And he could see, out of the corner of his eye, a Mexican const. worker sitting on a tractor, eyeing him intently. My friend could see that it was a new worker, that hadn't been there on any of the previous days. After a few minutes, the worker got off his tractor & walked over . Eyeing my friend from a polite distance. And then after a few more minutes, the worker got brave and approached my friend. Asking him what he was finding. As it turns out, my friend hadn't found anything good that day so far.

    At that, this worker told my friend that another md'r had been there the day before, that found gold coins! My friend was CRUSHED ! His immediate thought was "oh no, someone must have come here after I left, and found somethings that I missed ?!?! So he pumped the worker for information. Thinking maybe, if he had a description, that it might be another md'r in the area that he knows. As the worker went on with the story of all the 1800s coins, gold , etc..., a CURIOUS word slipped out of his mouth: "Owl".

    My friend busted up laughing. Because he immediately realized that the worker was talking about HIM ! So he corrected the worker and said : "No ... that was me. and No, there was no gold coins. And no... the owl wasn't gold, it was junk. And no.... there wasn't fistfulls of coins, it was just 2 or 3", etc...

    But the worker would not be dissuaded. He was CERTAIN someone had been there the day before, that found gold and fistfulls of coins ! So he figured it must therefore be someone else, and that my friend was mistaken. How did he know all this ? Simple: He had heard it that morning, around the water cooler, from the other workers who were there the day before. They had seen it with their own eyes ! They even had samples of the coins to show this new worker.

    See how quickly that evolved ? IN A SINGLE NIGHT !! Now what happens if you add 200 yrs ?

    Now think about it: That worker will tell his wife and kids and uncle Joe. Right ? And perhaps a little blurb in the paper about the guy with the detector (this happened to me before, when a newspaper person spotted me in a sidewalk tearout, and asked if he could take some pictures). Then 100 yrs. from now: Someone reading the story, and having a 'map passed down to him through the generations', and who found his "great great grandfather Jose's diary ", will be convinced that there's "gold under the sidewalks in Gilroy " And if he petitions the city of Gilroy for permission to "dig up the sidewalks" to "find the rest", the city will say "no". Which, of course, simply means that the city *knows about the treasure* and is in a conspiracy to "keep it for themselves". Right ? Or if the city tore out the sidewalks again for another routine sidewalk replacement, and said "no" to your detecting request, that means they "secreted away the treasure during the night", right ? (No doubt, odd lights and sounds from after-hours workers would further confirm this suspicion).

    And this md'r friend of mine: Moved away to Sacramento the following year. And was known to have accumulated "mysterious wealth" soon there after. No doubt he moved away from Gilroy NOT to follow a job offer elsewhere (that's just the ruse coverup). It was probably to flee would be robbers , who knew of his stash of gold. Right ? And that md'r, according to T'net archives, "hung around with a certain Tom_in_CA", who also flaunted gold coins on the T'net banner archives. And there was evidence that these 2 guys knew and hung around each other.

    So as you can see, 100 yrs. from now, the adherents would be pointing to the testimony of those workers. And you can study the contract notes and see that those were the only authorized persons allowed to be there (hence "they should know"). And you would indeed see that ... yes ... the sidewalks WERE torn up that year. And you would see that ... yes those md'rs names and dates and events was accurate. And then, heck, I can even spin some history of that area that goes back to a Spanish trail, through what is now modern Gilroy, that dates to the early 1770s. And we *all know* how those spanish/jesuit explorers were filthy rich, laden with gold. Right ?
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  2. #2
    us
    "We Build, We Fight"

    Jan 2014
    The Evergreen State
    -Whites & Minelab-
    173
    159 times
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    There's thousands of gold bars laying in the streets of Gilroy Ca. I'm packing my bags and heading out.
    RustyGold, dsdigger and Tom_in_CA like this.

  3. #3

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,525
    9857 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by Seabees View Post
    There's thousands of gold bars laying in the streets of Gilroy Ca. I'm packing my bags and heading out.
    Haha. He did pull a few nice semi-key date S mint seateds and barbers , during the couple of months the project lasted.

    At one point, he could see where a drip grate had been. That had long-since been covered with concrete. Revealed when they removed the concrete. Tell-tale by the different colored soil. He stopped md'ing, and got down on his hands and knees and dug it all out with his lesche. When he reached the bottom (like a christy box ) he found several barbers, a token or two, etc.... Fun fun .
    washingtonian likes this.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  4. #4

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,525
    9857 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    bump.

    No one to dispute that a true story such as this, couldn't replicate itself as a psychological explanation of what has occurred at O.I.? And other legends ?

    If the story's worker's insistence of gold and handfuls of coins "had more plausible explanations" (even on the day IMMEDIATELY AFTER the said-events no less !), then why can't a treasure legend, like O.I., have possibly been the same type evolution, as plausible explanation ?

    I mean, *heaven forbid* that kids ever get dreamy eyed with notions of digging pirate treasure, that .... gasp.... maybe didn't exist ? Didn't we all, as kids, jump to conclusions, fears, hopes, etc...,? That later, as adults, we look back on as just adolescent silly-ness ?
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  5. #5

    Dec 2018
    73
    61 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    sure, the story could replicate itself. but that fact has nothing to do with OI. proves nothing either way. both, neither, or one story could be true, but that has no effect on the other.

    meh

  6. #6

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,525
    9857 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by will7782 View Post
    .... but that fact has nothing to do with OI.....

    Other than to show more plausible explanations. Thus yes: It can have EVERYTHING "to do with O.I.".

    Why is O.I. somehow exempt from this easily explained phenomenon ? After all, you agree it "could replicate itself" .

    And we're talking "most plausible", not "proved". Shouldn't we be going by the most likely explanations, not the least likely explanations ? (ie.: more plausible vs less plausible)
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  7. #7
    us
    Dec 2017
    Grove City, Ohio
    Garrett 250, Divining Rods, brass pendulum
    107
    147 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Seabees View Post
    There's thousands of gold bars laying in the streets of Gilroy Ca. I'm packing my bags and heading out.
    Stay for the garlic festival !!! It's awesome...
    RustyGold likes this.

  8. #8

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,525
    9857 times
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr88bd View Post
    Stay for the garlic festival !!! It's awesome...
    Hard to beat the garlic flavored Ice cream after all (yup, seriously, they have garlic ice cream ! ha)
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  9. #9
    us
    Mar 2015
    Orange County, CA
    126
    200 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Tom, great story. I tend to look at all treasure stories with a cocked eye.
    The story can be a total fabrication,
    be based on an actual event and then replicated as you demonstrated above,
    or have different pieces to the puzzle which can be verified individually as fact based, but no real connection, just supposition.
    My somewhat limited reading of OI material leads me to believe you are right.
    The real story is most likely related to OI being involved in shipping and transfer of goods at a considerable profit.
    (Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn would have found it by now).

    Dirt

  10. #10
    us
    Loki

    Dec 2014
    Traverse City, Mi.
    1,227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Shouldn't we be going by the most likely explanations, not the least likely explanations ? (ie.: more plausible vs less plausible)
    Your opinion!! And, btw, I notice that the person you dedicated this thread too has not yet responded. Perhaps rather than dedicating a thread to one person pointing out the error you see in their thinking you could start a thread simply explaining that perceived error.

    Cheers, Loki
    Last edited by lokiblossom; Feb 10, 2019 at 06:41 AM.
    gazzahk likes this.

  11. #11

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,525
    9857 times
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokiblossom View Post
    Your opinion!! ...
    Well ...gee... yes. And isn't that the whole point of forums ? Likewise , you too, when you post something, it's "your opinion", as well, eh ?

    But to be specific to the point you quoted of mine: Am I to infer that you are of the opinion that: People should throw more weight to the least plausible explanation ?
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  12. #12
    us
    Loki

    Dec 2014
    Traverse City, Mi.
    1,227
    741 times
    Relic Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Well ...gee... yes. And isn't that the whole point of forums ? Likewise , you too, when you post something, it's "your opinion", as well, eh ?

    But to be specific to the point you quoted of mine: Am I to infer that you are of the opinion that: People should throw more weight to the least plausible explanation ?
    My opinion is that I don't know which is or isn't more plausible. But again in my opinion, I don't know that you know any more than I do, therefore I have to assume it is only your opinion also, which is what I indicated. I also think that many here will agree with me and others will not, their own opinions so to say.
    You are certainly correct in the point of forums, and we have had many disagreements (arguments) on this particular forum.
    The one thing I disagree with is beginning a thread dedicated to arguing a point by specifically singling out one person. Maybe b3y0nd3r doesn't care, but I would, and like I wrote, he/ she has not seemed to respond to you yet. Whatever, this is the last I'll say about it!

    Cheers, loki

  13. #13

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,525
    9857 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by lokiblossom View Post
    My opinion is that I don't know which is or isn't more plausible....
    Ok. When you had said, in post # 10 that it was "just your opinion", I thought you were referring to the issue of whether to put stock in "more" or "less" plausible explanations. Ie.: that it's only my opinion that people should put more stock in more likely scenarios.

    But now I see that the "opinion" you were referring to, is : The opinion that O.I. is more-likely-attributable to the explanation of "actual treasure". Rather than the treasure-fever-psychology that we both agree can happen.

    Now I understand what you were saying about "opinion".
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  14. #14

    Dec 2018
    73
    61 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Other than to show more plausible explanations. Thus yes: It can have EVERYTHING "to do with O.I.".

    Why is O.I. somehow exempt from this easily explained phenomenon ? After all, you agree it "could replicate itself" .

    And we're talking "most plausible", not "proved". Shouldn't we be going by the most likely explanations, not the least likely explanations ? (ie.: more plausible vs less plausible)


    look, your opinion is not fact. it is YOUR opinion. you cherry pick a story and falsely claim it shows that the OI story is false. it does not. they are mutually exclusive events. it merely shows how something could get distorted. and I agree with that.

    "more plausible" is your opinion. period. sorry to break it to you.
    boogeyman likes this.

  15. #15

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,525
    9857 times
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    Quote Originally Posted by will7782 View Post
    .... it merely shows how something could get distorted. and I agree with that.....
    Ok. I acknowledge the intellectual credibility on your part, to not deny this reality of human nature.

    But you think it applies to other legends or potential legends. Not O.I. , right ? O.I. has solid evidence, which shows that the story wasn't subject nor distorted by this phenomenon. Therefore we can say: "Present company excepted" .

    Quote Originally Posted by will7782 View Post
    ... cherry pick a story and falsely claim it shows that the OI story is false...
    It's also possible that someone on the skeptic's side, could likewise see that in reverse: Someone cherry picks the story, and decides OI is true. Thus, yes, we're both "cherry picking a story". That finger points both ways.
    franklin likes this.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

 

 
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