So far in the recent 2019 and 2020 Oak Island shows what have they really found? - Page 3
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Thread: So far in the recent 2019 and 2020 Oak Island shows what have they really found?

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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokiblossom View Post
    Was it?? Was the wood c-14 dated? There were several datings and id's of the coir done. The very existence of the logs has been constantly questioned.

    Cheers, Loki
    Dendrochronology is the calibration standard for archeological dating. It is absolute.
    C14 dating is a derived process based upon assumed C14 uptake rates for various organisms.
    if the wrong assumption is made, the results are inaccurate.
    no the wood was not C14 dated
    no one would use the C14 dating method when the tree ring method was applicable.
    Last edited by alan m; Jan 29, 2020 at 10:11 AM.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokiblossom View Post
    What does the oak tree ring dating have to do with it? I don't think I premised anybody bringing oak trees to Oak Island! Btw, Beta Analytics still does C-14 tests and has an excellent reputation.

    Cheers, Loki
    Yes they do. And they would have given a report of what they found that would have been the results of the relative ratios of C-14 vs. C-13 vs C-12. After there it is speculative. Then they would have used a baseline (do we know if they used Northern Hemisphere, Marine Environment, Southern Hemisphere, etc.?) to give PROBABILITY of the sample based on where it was found. Something like: "There is a 68% chance the material was alive between the years 1400 and 1800 AD". And those baselines are also dependent on where it was "raised" when alive and respirating/metabolizing C-14. Where did Beta A. assume the material originated? We're pretty sure the coir didn't grow on Oak Island, so it has to be displaced from somewhere else. And since it, presumably, was below sea level in the "drains" for decades or centuries it has been contaminated with seawater that has a LOT of ions and is subjected to UV that disrupts ions.
    Last edited by Charlie P. (NY); Jan 29, 2020 at 10:23 AM.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie P. (NY) View Post
    Yes they do. And they would have given a report of what they found that would have been the results of C-14 vs. C-13 vs C-12. Then they would have used a baseline (do we know if they used Northern Hemisphere, Marine Environment, Southern Hemisphere, etc.?) to give PROBABILITY of the sample based on where it was found. Something like: "There is a 68% chance the material was alive between the years 1400 and 1800 AD". And those baselines are also dependent on where it was "raised" when alive and respirating/metabolizing C-14. Where did Beta A. assume the material originated? We're pretty sure the coir didn't grow on Oak Island, so it has to be displaced from somewhere else. And since it, presumably, was below sea level in the "drains" for decades or centuries it has been contaminated with seawater that has a LOT of ions and is subjected to UV that disrupts ions.
    Hi Charlie,
    I just pulled my records, which cover 56 pages of reports on wood and coconut fibres from Oak Island. One sample of coconut fibre from the museum was dated with 95% confirmation by Beta in 1993, to between 1168 and 1371. This is the one I have been referencing.

    Wood, has been all over the place form 1025 to 1970, with a sample of Charcoal from 148bc.

    There have been three other datings of the fibre, two by National Ocean Sciences, submitted by Woods Hole in 1996, and one other by Beta in 1990.

    Cheers, Loki

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokiblossom View Post
    Hi Charlie,
    I just pulled my records, which cover 56 pages of reports on wood and coconut fibres from Oak Island. One sample of coconut fibre from the museum was dated with 95% confirmation by Beta in 1993, to between 1168 and 1371. This is the one I have been referencing.

    Wood, has been all over the place form 1025 to 1970, with a sample of Charcoal from 148bc.

    There have been three other datings of the fibre, two by National Ocean Sciences, submitted by Woods Hole in 1996, and one other by Beta in 1990.

    Cheers, Loki
    And yet, none of them cross calibrated by an absolute dating method
    time for another drink

  5. #35
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    where did they assume it grew? Do they mention the "Calibration" method or database used? It varies a great deal by geographic location and environment of where the sample existed when alive.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie P. (NY) View Post
    where did they assume it grew? Do they mention the "Calibration" method or database used? It varies a great deal by geographic location and environment of where the sample existed when alive.
    From the letters I read I believe they took everything into account. National Ocean Sciences and Beta Analytic know what they are doing and the correspondence back and forth (56 pages of letters) was intense.

    If anybody wants to question the results I will give them the exact dates and various company's address' and they can write to them.

    But, myself, I'm going with the 1168-1371 dates.

    Cheers, Loki
    Last edited by lokiblossom; Jan 29, 2020 at 10:57 AM.

  7. #37
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    That's because that fits nicely into your existing bias.

    I'd rather look at all the evidence objectively, questioning everything, rather than going in from the start to prove a hypothesis.


    And those fibers weren't even taken directly from Oak Island. They were provided by Triton from samples at a museum display to Woods Hole who sent them along to Beta years later. If this was a legal case any lawyer would get them dismissed as evidence because there is no chain of custody. They could have been samples of what the Coir may have looked like when it was recognizable and not just goo.
    Last edited by Charlie P. (NY); Jan 29, 2020 at 11:18 AM.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie P. (NY) View Post
    That's because that fits nicely into your existing bias.

    I'd rather look at all the evidence objectively, questioning everything, rather than going in from the start to prove a hypothesis.


    And those fibers weren't even taken directly from Oak Island. They were provided by Triton from samples at a museum display to Woods Hole who sent them along to Beta years later. If this was a legal case any lawyer would get them dismissed as evidence because there is no chain of custody. They could have been samples of what the Coir may have looked like when it was recognizable and not just goo.
    The fibres were from the Oak Island Museum just off the Island. I was offered a small quantity about 10 years ago and wish I had taken them up on it. There were other datings and other identifications that have similar results and one done recently by the Lagina's with the same results. Maybe all that evidence wouldn't prove anything but?

    Cheers, Loki
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokiblossom View Post
    Hi Charlie,
    I just pulled my records, which cover 56 pages of reports on wood and coconut fibres from Oak Island. One sample of coconut fibre from the museum was dated with 95% confirmation by Beta in 1993, to between 1168 and 1371. This is the one I have been referencing.

    Wood, has been all over the place form 1025 to 1970, with a sample of Charcoal from 148bc.

    There have been three other datings of the fibre, two by National Ocean Sciences, submitted by Woods Hole in 1996, and one other by Beta in 1990.

    Cheers, Loki
    The 95% confidence interval given is not what you think it is. It's the confidence in the methodology. It means the analysis contributes 5% error. The sample itself could contribute a lot of error. Dating degraded coconut fiber in a marine environment is prone to large error. It can be off by as much as a thousand years, and it always in the direction of finding things older than they are. You will never find anyone who dates a site with only an outlier result like that. Nothing else of known human attribution has ever confirmed this dating result, so it should be considered unconfirmed and an isolated result.
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  10. #40
    ECS
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    ...and no confirmation that the Oak Island coconut coir was genuine bona fide Templar coconut coir.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokiblossom View Post

    But, myself, I'm going with the 1168-1371 dates.

    Cheers, Loki
    Appendix --Woods Hole Explores Oak Island
    Quote below taken from website above.

    It should also be remembered that this date simply shows when the material began to decay—not the date it was deposited at the site.

 

 
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