Holy relics????

[Steamboat]

I keep hearing that the Knights Templar had "Holy relics" such as the cup of Christ.
It is a fact that you can read the New Testament from Matthew through Revelation and find absolutely no reference to any kind of a "Holy relic". Based on the New Testament, the First century Christians had absolutely no interest in any kind of physical object like a "Holy relic".
It wasn't until hundreds of years later when superstition and paganism had entered the church that there was any interest in "Holy relics".
By that time the original objects had long disappeared. The "Relics" that were presented were fakes. It was said during the Middle Ages that there were enough nails from the cross to build a house and enough wood from the cross to build a ship.

 

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[GoldieLocks]

I have studied Art History and I am pretty sure the real def. Of relic is a bone of a saint.

 

[DaveVanP]

The first mention of "Holy Grail", or "Cup of Christ" was by the French bard/poet Chretien de Troyes, sometime around 1190. There is no earlier reference OF ANY SORT to a of cup or drinking vessel attributed to Christ, or used at the Last Supper. Later minstrels and writers added to the legend of the Grail, and its inclusion in Arthurian lore. It has been the object of a "quest" by various Arthurian Knights, depending on who wrote the tale, including Parsifal (the FIRST Grail seeker), Lancelot, Galahad, Kay, and Arthur himself. It has been variously described (again, according to which tale) as being made of wood, clay, stone (agate), silver, gold, and glass.

The "Holy Lance"/"Spear of Destiny" is another "relic" that is said to exist, but the very "provenance" of the legend is illogical. Supposedly it was the spear of Longinus, the Roman Centurion who declared that Jesus of Nazareth was "truly the Son of God", and used his spear to pierce Christ's side to verify He was dead. Several problems with the legend...
1. the Centurion is never named in the Gospels, or anywhere else in the Bible. His name is first mentioned in the 8th Century;
2. a Centurion is an officer (equivalent to a Company Commander) and would NOT be armed with a spear, which could either be a verutum (stabbing spear), or "pilum" (throwing spear/javelin) which is the weapon of a legionaire "munifex", or foot soldier. Centurions were armed with a short sword, the gladius.
3. an artifact, reputed to be the "Spear of Destiny" of legend, supposedly sought after by Frederick the Great, Napoleon, and Hitler among others, is NOT an example of ANY type of Roman spear or javelin, but IS very similar to spears that were later used in 11th-Century Bohemia.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I his book "Innocent's Abroad" Mark Twain noted that if he added up all the relics he was shown across Europe that most Saints had at least 17 fingers, John the Baptist had three heads, and the Original Cross of Christ would have contained enough wood to construct a good sized house.

The Church needed relics to bring in an audience and convince the illiterate pheasants that there was substance to the story. There are at least seven different Spears of Destiny. ("Spear of Longinus") and all are probably just as authentic as each other.

 

[gazzahk]

BUT..... Indiana Jones found the Grail! I saw the documentary....

 

[LouMiller]

BUT..... Indiana Jones found the Grail! I saw the documentary....

Didn't Monty Python find it too ?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Didn't Monty Python find it too ?

INDEED!

 

[lokiblossom]

I his book "Innocent's Abroad" Mark Twain noted that if he added up all the relics he was shown across Europe that most Saints had at least 17 fingers, John the Baptist had three heads, and the Original Cross of Christ would have contained enough wood to construct a good sized house.

The Church needed relics to bring in an audience and convince the illiterate pheasants that there was substance to the story. There are at least seven different Spears of Destiny. ("Spear of Longinus") and all are probably just as authentic as each other.

And at least five Holy Grail's!

 

[SSR]

The first mention of "Holy Grail", or "Cup of Christ" was by the French bard/poet Chretien de Troyes, sometime around 1190. There is no earlier reference OF ANY SORT to a of cup or drinking vessel attributed to Christ, or used at the Last Supper. Later minstrels and writers added to the legend of the Grail, and its inclusion in Arthurian lore. It has been the object of a "quest" by various Arthurian Knights, depending on who wrote the tale, including Parsifal (the FIRST Grail seeker), Lancelot, Galahad, Kay, and Arthur himself. It has been variously described (again, according to which tale) as being made of wood, clay, stone (agate), silver, gold, and glass.

The "Holy Lance"/"Spear of Destiny" is another "relic" that is said to exist, but the very "provenance" of the legend is illogical. Supposedly it was the spear of Longinus, the Roman Centurion who declared that Jesus of Nazareth was "truly the Son of God", and used his spear to pierce Christ's side to verify He was dead. Several problems with the legend...
1. the Centurion is never named in the Gospels, or anywhere else in the Bible. His name is first mentioned in the 8th Century;
2. a Centurion is an officer (equivalent to a Company Commander) and would NOT be armed with a spear, which could either be a verutum (stabbing spear), or "pilum" (throwing spear/javelin) which is the weapon of a legionaire "munifex", or foot soldier. Centurions were armed with a short sword, the gladius.
3. an artifact, reputed to be the "Spear of Destiny" of legend, supposedly sought after by Frederick the Great, Napoleon, and Hitler among others, is NOT an example of ANY type of Roman spear or javelin, but IS very similar to spears that were later used in 11th-Century Bohemia.

The literary climax of the medieval Arthurian legend of the Holy grail is said to have occurred in Wolfram Von Eschenbach's "Parzival", 1200-1210. This was the introduction of the story into Germany where it later resurfaces as a an esoteric element during the Reform period. The Parzival is an allegory about the journey from naivete and ignorance into spiritual awareness. Wolfram describes the grail this way: That which has been attained and realized by those people who have lived their own lives. The quest for the holy grail is an inner quest. This is mirrored again on OI with the use of the inner chamber of Enoch's' vault with the money pit. The story elements inform us we are dealing with a philosophical message on OI, which is why we are smart to assume we are being treated to a staged mystery by Freemasons.

 

[Ryano]

Actually, Longinus was first identified in the apocryphal Gospel of Nicodemus - circa 4th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Nicodemus