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  1. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    Why would any 6TH century Welsh tribes risk traveling halfway around the world making hazardous ocean journey across the north Atlantic. Then trek hundreds of miles through virtual wilderness to mine copper near Lake Michigan ? When they had shallow copper deposits Parys mountain and Great Orme less than 10-30 miles from them? Those two mines there as well as others was more than enough to supply and demand needs of 6th Britain and more so.



    Totally illogical and ignorant.

    Crow
    They came over here to live and most did not go back home.

  2. #692
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    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    I hope someone with real professional credentials in marine history and marine archaeology explain what type of ship was available to 14th century Henry Sinclair that could make a voyage across the Atlantic.
    Not a "professional", but I did dedicate several years in work and study in this field (ECU called it "Maritime Studies", but it was actually Naval Archaeology and History). I assisted (as a student) in locating the Hunley in Charleston Harbor, and Teach's Queen Anne's Revenge near Topsail Inlet, Beaufort NC.

    In the early 14th Century, the most common European vessel possibly capable of trans-oceanic travel was the Cog, a single-masted vessel of about 100-150 tons (approx 100-150 cubic metres) with a crew of between 25-30 men. (I say "capable" meaning "possible" - in the same way that its has been proven that it is "possible" to cross the Atlantic in a kayak, even a bathtub, as both have been done.) Another vessel of that time was the "Hulk" (200-300 tons), which was larger, but flat-bottomed and without a keel it was suitable only for coastal and inland waterways. Both were used as transport along the Baltic, North Sea, English Channel, and capable of coastal travel around the Iberian Peninsula from western Europe, through the Atlantic to the Mediterranean. They were a development of the northern European/Norse knarr (25-30 tons). The greatest limitation for open-sea travel was the lack of space for supplies to survive a long voyage without landing for re-supply of food and fresh water. Loading such a ship with enough provisions to last 6-8 weeks required to travel across the Atlantic would prevent the carrying of much cargo or passengers. They would evolve into the much larger carrack and caravel used by explorers in the latter half of the 15th Century.

    Galleys and dhows were in use in much of the Mediterranean, but again, not suitable for making extended voyages due to their shallow draft, and physical size limiting the amount of food and supplies needed to survive a voyage of many weeks away from land.
    Last edited by DaveVanP; Apr 08, 2021 at 07:57 AM.
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  3. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    They came over here to live and most did not go back home.
    Hence the facetious legends of the Mandan Indians "speaking Welsh"...
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  4. #694
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    Dave

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    One of the reasons Columbus was convinced he could reach "the Indies" by sailing west is because of legends of those doing it decades or centuries before - specifically stating they had reached China and "Hapon" itself... yet none mention they had to cross an another continent, and sail another ocean to do so. Columbus showed that those "legends" were false (although he went to his grave still believing he had reached Asia) - or at least, they left a LOT out, including such things that were even MORE strange and exotic than what could be found in "the Indies".
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  5. #695
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    The Native Indians never mined millions of tons of copper.
    If they did they were working for the Europeans.
    https://www.nps.gov/kewe/learn/histo...g-timeline.htm
    Franklin, just read the first paragraph. NO WELSH, NO white European copper mines, just Native Americans 7000 years ago.
    The Native American OLD COPPER CULTURE of the Great Lakes is the oldest metal working people on Earth.
    Why do you promote this white Eurocentric belief that indigenous Native Americans had no culture and to either be taught or worked for the much more intelligent white Europeans?
    This nonsense pseudo history you continue to post without any supporting facts beyond your favorite quasi historians charlatans serves NO purpose, but is insulting to real history and historians.
    Why do you continue to embarrass yourself by posting this easily proven wrong rubbish?
    Last edited by ECS; Apr 08, 2021 at 09:44 AM.

  6. #696
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    Dave

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    Apparently our friend is an adherent of the theory of it is the "white man's burden" to "educate, elevate, and ultimately, dominate" those lesser races of dark skin, since they are too stupid and unsophisticated to elevate themselves. Joseph Smith explained the many Mounds and pyramids built in the Americas (and the "Red Indian") as artifacts of ancient Israelites. Darwin theorized how it came to be that the superior Anglo-Saxon "race" evolved from the "lesser races". The 19th Century had many instances in which the British and other European countries, as well American governments felt the obligation to "Christianize and civilize" such "heathen savages" as found in India, Africa, the western U.S., China, and the Philippines.
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  7. #697
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    Raggedy old Crow

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  8. #698

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  9. #699

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  10. #700
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVanP View Post
    Hence the facetious legends of the Mandan Indians "speaking Welsh"...
    Like your famous quote: " I assisted (as a student) in locating the Hunley in Charleston Harbor, and Teach's Queen Anne's Revenge near Topsail Inlet, Beaufort NC." You did not have to help locate the Hundley in Charleston Harbor? E. Lee Spence had already located that years earlier while he was teenager. Probably located the "Queens Ann Revenge" too. I purchased his books and nautical charts years ago and re-sold them. E. Lee Spence located hundreds of ships off the coast of South Carolina. So find you another ship located and go find it, claiming you helped locate it. I know better.

  11. #701
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    While Dr E Lee Spence located the Hunley and many Confederate and other vessels off the South Carolina coast, Queen Anne's Revenge was discovered by Mike Daniel and Maritime Archaeologist, David Moore, of Phil Masters INTERSAL, INC.

  12. #702
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    Dave

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    Much of Spence's ESTIMATIONS of the Hunley's location was useful in VERIFYING the location where Hunley was found, photographed, and ultimately raised in 1995. We worked with several entities, including the South Carolina Institute for Archaeology and Anthropology, U.S. Naval Institute, and Clive Cussler's NUMA. The discoveries of both the Hunley and Queen Anne's Revenge occurred just a year or so after I had left North Carolina (and a year apart, in 95 and 96), but I spent several years prior assisting in research. I have no idea if any of the information I found was crucial to any of the location efforts, but I take a bit of pride in knowing that perhaps I may have. Unlike the claims of a particular poster on this forum, there are real, actual, tangible artifacts that show the research was successful.
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  13. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVanP View Post
    Much of Spence's ESTIMATIONS of the Hunley's location was useful in VERIFYING the location where Hunley was found, photographed, and ultimately raised in 1995. We worked with several entities, including the South Carolina Institute for Archaeology and Anthropology, U.S. Naval Institute, and Clive Cussler's NUMA. The discoveries of both the Hunley and Queen Anne's Revenge occurred just a year or so after I had left North Carolina (and a year apart, in 95 and 96), but I spent several years prior assisting in research. I have no idea if any of the information I found was crucial to any of the location efforts, but I take a bit of pride in knowing that perhaps I may have. Unlike the claims of a particular poster on this forum, there are real, actual, tangible artifacts that show the research was successful.
    Great to hear facts from someone who has actually been there and done it vs. folks who post nonsense here obtained from watching YouTube videos and reading fairy tale fiction.
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  14. #704

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeN View Post
    In this week's episode:




    They begin digging up the 'Spanish Galleon' in the swamp but true to form, an Oak Island water trap activates and fills the hole in with water faster than even Billy can excavate it. They exposed a beam of the ship, but it will have to wait until next year when they can install a coffer dam.

    In the Samuel Ball foundation they find a hinge, from a door or treasure chest. Then they find a door in the floor: does it lead to a hidden tunnel and the Chappell vault?

    In the stone pathway, they find a cool-looking possible wooden carpenter's square actually found to be a stonemason's T-square! A possible Masonic connection - possibly useful in creating all the 30,60, and 90 degree angles to features on Oak Island. Dated to 1632-1668. Could it be from the Scottish Freemasons? Later they find a very long ring bolt at the eastern border of the swamp.

    This week's guest theorist found a piece of paper among some old Masonic regalia. The symbols were similar to Le Formule and the 90 foot stone. Decoding the message led from "the altar" to a location of a 40 foot dig. They dig down and find some ground up stone at 40 feet but no treasure.
    Hi Mike moved my reply to this thread hope you do not mind...

    So they expect to have another season... Really wonder why.. They have not found anything this season to justify another in my view.

    I am pretty stunned they have managed to spin this season out for so long with finding nothing..

    Just take a look at any of the old photos and you can see mountains of wood used by previous searchers. The chances are the wood in the swamp is just refuse dumped there by previous searchers or washed in there by nature. No supprise finding old crap in a swamp near heavily farmed, mined and other industry in the area.

    Given that they gave up telling the truth long ago about there finds they probably already know where the wood is from and I would wager it is ordinary human activity..

    Thanks Mike really do appreciate you reviews...
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  15. #705

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    Quote Originally Posted by gazzahk View Post
    Hi Mike moved my reply to this thread hope you do not mind...

    So they expect to have another season... Really wonder why.. They have not found anything this season to justify another in my view.

    I am pretty stunned they have managed to spin this season out for so long with finding nothing..

    Just take a look at any of the old photos and you can see mountains of wood used by previous searchers. The chances are the wood in the swamp is just refuse dumped there by previous searchers or washed in there by nature. No supprise finding old crap in a swamp near heavily farmed, mined and other industry in the area.
    I posted it to the wrong thread - I think the 'ship' or whatever bundle of wood is down there is something a bit different than searcher discards. The swamp deposits above the ship are dateable. A large dock or wooden structure could have blown into the swamp and sunk below the muck line; I don't think even searchers would transport all that wood into the swamp to try to sink it when it would be so much easier to pile up somewhere among all the dirt.
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