The problem with carbon dated "evidence".

[mts]

In another thread I have argued that after digging pits on Oak Island, those pits were then backfilled with debris from around the area. This COULD have included items that were close to the surface (perhaps only a couple of feet down) like old fence posts, artifacts, and other items that were never in the pit to begin with. Imagine an excavator taking big scoops of surface dirt and debris and dumping it back down into the hole. The excavator is not methodically digging to make sure that the only thing going back in the hole is stuff that originally came from the hole. So the stuff used to backfill the hole is likely to be tainted with some other surface area dirt/items that were never down in the hole to begin with.

Given that the pit was backfilled with such debris, any items dug up from the pit and carbon dated today do NOT provide any evidence of what was originally 100 feet down in the ground hundreds of years ago. Can we all agree to this point?

 

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[Al D]

In another thread I have argued that after digging pits on Oak Island, those pits were then backfilled with debris from around the area. This COULD have included items that were close to the surface (perhaps only a couple of feet down) like old fence posts, artifacts, and other items that were never in the pit to begin with. Imagine an excavator taking big scoops of surface dirt and debris and dumping it back down into the hole. The excavator is not methodically digging to make sure that the only thing going back in the hole is stuff that originally came from the hole. So the stuff used to backfill the hole is almost GUARANTEED to be tainted with some other surface area dirt/items that were never down in the hole to begin with.

Given that the pit was backfilled with such debris, any items dug up from the pit and carbon dated today do NOT provide any evidence of what was originally 100 feet down in the ground. Can we all agree to this point?

Absolutely...........

 

[n2mini]

Yes, but it is evidence and could be correct, it's just that we don't know for sure because of the back filling... and apparently the inconsistency of c14 dating.. you will not have a tree laying near by for 200-300 years and then backfill with it. Pieces of metal, pottery, glass and the such yes...Any wood that was dug up from the pit area that is in the 225-300 year old range was there before the MP was originally dug most likely. Do you agree with that?

 

[mts]

Yes, but it is evidence and could be correct, it's just that we don't know for sure because of the back filling... and apparently the inconsistency of c14 dating.. you will not have a tree laying near by for 200-300 years and then backfill with it. Pieces of metal, pottery, glass and the such yes...Any wood that was dug up from the pit area that is in the 225-300 year old range was there before the MP was originally dug most likely. Do you agree with that?

Ok. So you agree that it is still "evidence" but that the evidence is suspect. Which means that it can't be trusted to prove anything one way or the other. Thanks for at least agreeing to that.

As for "you will not have a tree laying near by for 200-300 years and then backfill with it" why not? First off, it isn't a tree. They didn't dig out a whole tree (but I haven't watched the show for about 5 seasons so if f I am wrong, please correct me). My understanding is that they dug out PIECES of wood and had them carbon dated. Those pieces of wood could be from anything. For example, it is absolutely possible for part of an old fence post to be buried down two feet in the ground and be around for 200-300 years. Then it is absolutely possible that an excavator could scoop it up and throw it down in the hole as part of the backfilling process. After all, when they went to fill those holes they didn't painstakingly refill them with the exact same dirt that came out of the hole originally right? So it is absolutely possible for wood to have been laying near by for 200-300 years and then be used to backfill the hole. I don't see how you can disagree with this.

How can you keep making this argument when you know logically that what I am saying makes complete sense?

 

[mts]

Any wood that was dug up from the pit area that is in the 225-300 year old range was there before the MP was originally dug most likely. Do you agree with that?

No, I absolutely do not agree with that. And I've given a logic explanation for why I believe that 200-300 year old wood could have ended up down there. And it is probably much more logical than the explanations being given on the TV show. I'm simply asking for you to agree that my explanation is possible.

 

[n2mini]

What your saying is possible but there must have been a bunch of fence posts in that area for them to be finding every single one of them, and they have had to stay under ground the whole time other then when digging them up and then back filling them in.. They are not just laying around above ground for 200-300 years...based on a Google search they can't be laying around for more then 60 years or so... I'm not sure how many different times they've had wood tested but it is quite a few... and at times they are finding big chunks of it not just a 4'' x 18'' fence post type size...and at times they "claim" to be in virgin ground and finding wood, meaning it is not backfill. Maybe, maybe not it is a tv show...

 

[mts]

What your saying is possible but there must have been a bunch of fence posts in that area for them to be finding every single one of them, and they have had to stay under ground the whole time other then when digging them up and then back filling them in.. They are not just laying around above ground for 200-300 years... I'm not sure how many different times they've had wood tested but it is quite a few... and at times they are finding big chunks of it not just a 4'' x 18'' fence post type size...and at times they "claim" to be in virgin ground and finding wood, meaning it is not backfill. Maybe, maybe not it is a tv show...

Ok. So now we are getting somewhere. You agree that it is possible for wood from around the surface to be backfilled into the hole. You have also agreed that any evidence that is dug up from the pit and carbon dated is suspect due to the nature of the backfilling process. It is still "evidence" but it cannot be trusted to tell us what was 100 feet down in the ground hundreds of years ago.

As for post sizes and how many fence posts are in an area, you are missing the point. It doesn't have to be a fence post or even have to be from that area. Are you saying that it is not possible for someone to be digging in Smith Cove, find some old wood remnant, carry it over to the money pit area, show it to someone who dismisses it as trash, throw it down on the ground, and have an excavator grab it and toss it down into the pit as rubbish during the backfill process? You absolutely know that it is possible. As are 1000s of other examples of how 200-300 year old wood could end up in backfill.

You are trying to concentrate too hard on likelihood of a specific example I've given rather than thinking logically about what could happen. Who cares where the wood came from? It is possible for a 200-300 year old piece of wood to find its way into the pit as part of the backfill process. Therefore, any carbon dated wood evidence from the pit is suspect and can't be trusted as evidence of what was originally down in the hole.

 

[n2mini]

but what if they are in virgin soil as they claim to be at times? and claimed that on this weeks show.. Something pretty major happened on the island treasure or no treasure for there to be "wood" that is 300 years old that somehow ended up 100' or more below ground in the MP area... I'll make you happy and say yes everything you say is 100% possible and a fact.. You and others have debunked the whole island of anything ever happening and yet all of you are still on here and some are still watching the show... Why is that...

My whole thing was someone this week on here made the claim that wood "laying" around above ground could have been back filled into the pit.. Yes it could have IF it had been underground the whole time. NOT just laying around above ground for more then 60 years. That is how this whole wood dating and 200-300 years got going... I realize till they actually find something substantial down there it is all rubbish of some sort and I'd think they do to.. If they didn't get the wood dated they'd have no idea what they are working with date wise. they have to get it dated and if they didn't some of ya'll would be asking why didn't they!

 

[mts]

but what if they are in virgin soil as they claim to be at times? and claimed that on this weeks show.. Something pretty major happened on the island treasure or no treasure for there to be "wood" that is 300 years old that somehow ended up 100' or more below ground in the MP area... I'll make you happy and say yes everything you say is 100% possible and a fact.. You and others have debunked the whole island of anything ever happening and yet all of you are still on here and some are still watching the show... Why is that...

My whole thing was someone this week on here made the claim that wood "laying" around above ground could have been back filled into the pit.. Yes it could have IF it had been underground the whole time. NOT just laying around above ground for more then 60 years. That is how this whole wood dating and 200-300 years got going... I realize till they actually find something substantial down there it is all rubbish of some sort and I'd think they do to.. If they didn't get the wood dated they'd have no idea what they are working with date wise. they have to get it dated and if they didn't some of ya'll would be asking why didn't they!

You keep trying to act like you are making some point to cover up the fact that you are wrong. Why can't you just say that what I have said is correct and not have to try and add more "buts...." to it?

At no point did anyone here say that wood lying directly on top of the ground for 200-300 years was dumped in the hole. You decided to incorrectly infer that and argue against it. I'm not sure why you continue to argue against it considering that you have been told that it was never said.

The virgin soil point is fine. But where is the evidence that this is virgin soil? Given their track record of claiming "conclusive evidence" that I have just shown is suspect, shouldn't we also consider their claim of virgin soil to also be suspect? If they can provide decent evidence that it is virgin soil then it would indeed be something important to have found wood down at 100 feet. But if their evidence is just that they "believe it is" then that isn't evidence. Given the countless people who have been there and the damage that has been done there over the years, I'm frankly not sure they could even find any virgin soil left. Finally, given that they have a vested financial interest in using "creative conclusion making" to keep people watching the show, I'm not sure we can trust them on anything.

 

[mts]

My point for this thread was to come to an agreement that items dug up from a pit today and carbon dated do not provide evidence of what was originally under the ground hundreds of years ago due to the backfilling problem. So if you ever hear someone say that wood dug up today and carbon dated proves that people were digging down there hundreds of years ago, you should now explain to them why they are wrong.

Finally, if that is the best evidence you can present, then you don't have very good evidence. You still have evidence, but it is not good evidence and should not be trusted when trying to come to any sort of conclusion that you would stake your reputation or money on.

 

[Phil]

I agree carbon dating wood found underground is not conclusive evidence people were digging down there hundreds of years ago. However, carbon dating establishes when the tree was cut down, which does provide conclusive evidence somebody was in the area doing something hundreds of years ago.

 

[mts]

I agree carbon dating wood found underground is not conclusive evidence people were digging down there hundreds of years ago. However, carbon dating establishes when the tree was cut down, which does provide conclusive evidence somebody was in the area doing something hundreds of years ago.

Correct. And it is much more likely that they were just doing common things near the surface than digging a 100+ foot deep pit to bury treasure in. The most likely explanation is USUALLY the correct one.... Especially when it comes to treasure hunting. Unfortunately, many treasure hunters fall under the "when all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail" class of thinkers.

 

[n2mini]

As I said the first person to say wood laying around said it as if that is what they meant. Just laying around above ground. I showed how that was not possible and they did come back to explain better what they meant. End of story. I'm not the only one dragging this out... Keep in mind that the first tunnels that we know of in the MP area would have been the Halifax tunnels of 1866. Not sure if The Truro Company did any tunneling or not but they came in around 1849 so not too much earlier... Which at that point IF the dating of some of the wood is correct they could be over 100 years old at that point and unless they had already been underground their entire life up to that point they would not still be around. It would be years after the 1866 date before anyone most likely did any back filling as everyone was still using the existing holes, pits, tunnels in their search.... SO if it was say 1875-1900 before any back fill happened that wood is well past it's life UNLESS it had some how some where been under ground the whole time...I would think there was some back filling in the early 1900's possibly but haven't read about it. The first big back filling we hear of is from Dunfield which would have been mid to late 60's. Again well past this woods life unless it has been under ground the whole time.. SO for this wood to still be around it most likely had to start life some where else on the island and probably under ground to have lasted till either the Truro or Halifax people could have found it and used it in their pits/tunnels.. Is it possible yes...

 

[mts]

I'm not really sure what you are getting at. Once Dunfield (and others) screwed up the area by digging it all up and backfilling, any carbon dated material after that point is suspect. It doesn't matter where it originally came from or who was digging first and what wood they might have been using. And I'm not sure why you keep wanting to harp on that.

This is very simple.... any time the Laginas perform a carbon dating test on something they dig up from the pit, it is not valid evidence of what was buried 100 feet in the ground hundreds of years ago. If you have evidence of carbon tests done BEFORE the Laginas got there, then you would have to be able to show that it is not tainted as well. And given the history of the place (along with the high potential for fraudulent reporting in an effort to secure funding), I don't see how you can trust ANY carbon dated results.... period!

With all of that said, it seems like we should be able to move on in agreement. Right?

 

[Phil]

Correct. And it is much more likely that they were just doing common things near the surface than digging a 100+ foot deep pit to bury treasure in. The most likely explanation is USUALLY the correct one.... Especially when it comes to treasure hunting. Unfortunately, many treasure hunters fall under the "when all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail" class of thinkers.

The show pushes the narrative about "treasure" because it captures the imagination and gets ratings. However, even Marty has made several comments that he is skeptical there is "treasure" on Oak Island.

That said, something happened on the island a long time ago, and discovering who it was, and what they were doing, is the real "treasure".

As for digging a 100+ foot deep pit, they had to use the restroom just like the rest of us, and my theory is the 90 foot stone said................"STOP DIGGING! THE SHITTER IS FULL!". LOL

 

[n2mini]

It has always been Rick's dream and I think Marty is/was only some what interested in it from the get go.. and had the money to get it all going along with Greg Tester..
I agree it is more of a history lesson at this point.. For that I enjoy the show despite how they all act and comments they make.. Would it be nice to see them find some sort of treasure or evidence of, heck yeah..

 

[Al D]

It would also be nice if they stopped finding “experts” for every wacked out theory that is floating around out there, but we know that the only way it will stop is when the show gets canceled.

 

[Phil]

It would also be nice if they stopped finding “experts” for every wacked out theory that is floating around out there, but we know that the only way it will stop is when the show gets canceled.

Aliens gave the Templars the secrets of the universe, and they buried those secrets on Oak Island, where Bigfoot has been guarding the treasure ever since...................Season 9, Episode 5.

 

[Al D]

Aliens gave the Templars the secrets of the universe, and they buried those secrets on Oak Island, where Bigfoot has been guarding the treasure ever since...................Season 9, Episode 5.

There you go giving them ideas.......

 

[xaos]

What part of this rock has NOT been excavated!! Seriously ...did the current "team" even bother to look and/or georeference all of the aerial photography?!?!?!?

Search for Oak Island...Season 200...team is getting close...
"Gary finds his lost walker"

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