Manitou Beach

[Gypsy Heart]

Pictures of the amusement park at Manitou Beach, with its Poplar-lined entrance, grand old hotels reached by an open-air trolley that slowly crossed the bay and ponds. The Manitou Beach resort area offered dining, dancing, picnic groves and water activities to visitors at the turn of the century.

 

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[Gypsy Heart]

Caswell: "Ed Spelman and I are at the Elmheart Hotel interview-ing Mr. George Wiedman. Mr. Wiedman you owned theElmheart Hotel once at the end of the Manitou Trolley Lineand can remember all about the old times in this area.So can you tell us a few things. For example, wé wouldlike to know your history. Where did you start and how didyou happen to end up here?"»Wiedman: "My folks came here in 1903 from Rochester. They had aplace on State & Allen Streets, a saloon and bowling alley,before we came here. My father's name was George' and he andMichael O'Loughlin were partners. O'Loughlin died in '54,at the age of 86."Caswell"What was here in 1903? Was this hotel built?"Wiedman:"It was built in 1892. Frederick Odenbach built it andlost it to Al Skinner's father. Skinner's father had awarranty deed to this property and Odenbach came in. on aquit claim deed."Question: "Is that the same Odenbach who had a place across theroad?"Wiedman: "Yeah, he went from here up there."Caswell: "Did he build that other place?"Wiedman: "No, that was built in 1888."Caswell: "What was it originally?"Wiedman: "Matthews and Servis built that. Manitou Hotel they-1-
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callad it. Odenbach built this hotel but the Skinner familyclaimed it was on their property and there was a lawsuit.Odenbach won the first time around. Then Boris, a lawyersaid the judge made an error and he took up Skinner's fight.The next time around, Skinner beat him and took over thehotel. An Elm tree decided the lawsuit - that's where itgets its name. "Question: "Mr. Wiedman, will you just tell us about things - asyou remember the old days?"Wiedman: "The trolleys came in 1892."Question: "So it was already a good operating line, when you came."Wiedman: "Yeah, and they quit in October."Caswell"What did you do all winter?"Wiedman: "We would go back to the city. It was a summer business."Question: "Tell us about that Pittsburgh group that used to comehere? Eddie Ushold at the Grove House was telling uswhere the Colony Club went and everybody kicked them outuntil they finally got here. Remember those places?"Wiedman"No."Question: "He said they were down at the old Crescent Beach Hotelbut they only had them one year and didn't like thegroup.nWiedman"The Colony Club was at Odenbach's first and then moveddown here. They wanted to get on the lakefront."Question: "Mr. Wiedman has just shown us a picture of the Colony Club-2
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taken by the famous "Stoney". (Photographer Albert Stone ofthe old HERALD and DEMOCRAT & CHRONICLE newspapers.) Hiscollection is now being gone over by the Rochester Museumand many are being printed in the local papers in this yearof 1977. Mr. Wiedman is telling us that the PittsburghColony Club did bring their wives and the picture he isshowing us includes the families, so there may be some con-fusion between this group and the one which Eddie Usholdsaid went to various places and they wouldn't accept themback. Tell us more about this Colony club-it came how many,years?""They came here 20 years in the month of July and theyquit in '31. That was the last year and about 125 peoplecame and stayed four weeks. They came from Pittsburgh viathe B & 0" (Baltimore & Ohio R.R.) Heavy Equipment came upon that and then the trolley to here- a lot of them drove intheir own cars. They had free dancing here every night." "Question: "In your hall out here?"WiedmanWiedman"No they had their own dance floor." (Mr. Wiedman showsa photograph which has a large sign with PittsburghColony Club, Pittsburgh,PA on it and about 100 people,men, women and children, also another photograph of thedance hall. This is a covered open building 6Q feet long,with screening for windows.) "They had free dancing with a-3
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QuestionWiedman:Question^Wiedman:Caswell:Wiedman:13 piece band. They brought their own bands.""This was just for the Colony Club members?""No, for everybody and people came from all around. In thispicture you can see the tents in which they lived -. a veryorderly colony stretching for a long distance - 500' oftents.""Did they bring these tents, Mr. Wiedman?""Yes, they brought their tents and in this picture here- this was their dining room and their kitchen and thehelp slept up there and that was their storehouse whenthey broke camp....see those boxes there, Colony Clubmarkings, each tent would have a box.** They put thetents out to dry them off, then put them in a box andstored them in this building there.""What is this building you are pointing to?""That was a double cottage. We tore that down afterthey quit."Caswell: "And this cottage was only used by the Pittsburgh ColonyClub right? Tell me, do you still hear from any of thoseold Colony Club members."Wiedman:"No."** One of these large boxes was found in an antique shop and boughtby Bud Steeb, a society member.
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Caswell: Mr. Wiedman is now showing us a photograph of the Elmheartat the end of the Manitou Trolley Line. It shows that thetracks ran along the breakwall ending in front of theElmheart Hotel. He is also showing us another picture whichhas the name WEIDMAN AND O'LOUGHLIN which was the originalname of this proprietorship. It shows two of the old carsand the people are disembarking in front of what is now thepresent Elmheart Hotel. The building has a lot of superstructure with the name "The Elmheart" on an upper level andwhat looks like balconies and an observation tower. Thepicture shows ladies in their long dresses and the men andboys in their.suspenders. Mr. Wiedman is just mentioningthings that were here at Manitou Beach. "What were yousaying about all the attractions?"Wiedman: "We had a merry-go-round, shooting gallery, toboggan slide,Caswell :Wiedman:Caswell:bath house.""Were there any restaurants besides yours?""No.""Were there any other places to sleep and stay?"Wiedman: "No." (Editors Note: The Manitou Hotel would have been inoperation nearby, so this reply is strange.)Caswell: "How many rooms did you have?"Wiedman:Caswell :Wiedman:"Twenty-five.""They are still here but you aren't using them?""No, we have not had a roomer since 1931."
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Caswell: "Still got the furniture of those days?"Wiedman: "Gave them away - all collector's items. Wash bowls,pictures.iiCaswell: "Did you have a pot under each bed?"Wiedman: "Yeah, brass beds, commodes, cuspidors." George Gobelsays you can hardly get them anymore-"Caswell: "We will record here a rather interesting point. Mr.Wiedman has been very adamant about lending the HistoricalSociety any of his photographs. The reason is that he lenta number of them to a man who put out a book on the oldManitou Trolley and he did not return the photographs.(At this point, Ed Spelman is copying some of his photo-graphs on the premises and also is going out to get thebook from his car and have Mr. Wiedman identify the pictureswhich he lost. It is very possible that Ed may have boughtthose pictures, in which case duplicates can be made andgiven to Mr. Wiedman.) We have been talking to Mr. Wiedman,who mentioned that the cash register which he has is from1896. Somebody has painted it green but it is probablysolid brass. (Note: As part of the estate, this cash regis-Wiedmanter is now in the possession of his heirs.)"When we came here, Odenbach gave us one year...he said wewould be back in Rochester (Dutchtown) in one year and weare still here and Odenbach quit in Ml."-6
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Wiedman:Wiedman:Caswell:Brass Ring TicketsReis BrothersWm. J. Reis & SonsProprietorsCaswell: (Mr. Wiedman is looking through the book and making remarksHe just remarked about the Steamer Rosalie and the Odenbachpier.) "Anddidn't you?""Yeah."you had a small pier in front of your place,Caswell: "I know some of those big stone blocks are still therewith the steps up them. Now what was that used for?""For fishermen."«In Ed's collection, we have found the old brochure whichincludes the Reis Brothers Merry-go-round and it sáys,Tickets 5 cents, 6 for 25 cents. Underneath it there area couple ticket stubs, one for the Rochester ManitouRailroad Company and it says, SPECIAL EXCURSION RATES. NowI would like you to repeat what you were saying about whenyou worked on this, Mr. Wiedman".Wiedman: "I got 25 cents a day. Al Skinner and I worked there for25 cents a day and at the Pioneers Picnic we would get a$1."Caswell: "What did you do?"Wiedman: "We were feeding the rings."QuestionWiedman:Caswell'Wiedman:Caswell:"Tell me, where is that merry-go-round now?""It went to Wautoma Beach.""Is it still there or did they destroy it?""I think it's destroyed."("Mr. Wiedman is saying it was an old merry-go-round, ithad canvas sides and it was part of his job to roll the-7-
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canvas closures up and down and it had a steam engine onit"). "What kind of music arrangement did it have?Mr. Wiedman says it was an organ and they just left it therewith a canvas protecting it- Also Mr. Wiedman was justsaying that the last run on the trolley line was made byJack Kelley, a name well known to Manitou Trolley buffs. EdSpelman has a little brochure here which has a map of theDivision of Engineering in the city of Rochester, 1956 andit shows the monthly mean water level of Lake Ontario from1913 to 1956. This map shows the stops on the old trolleyline, the first being Ontario Beach which is misspelled andCharlotte, Island Cottage, Crescent Beach, Grandview Beach,Braddocks Heights, Manitou Beach. Looking at this map, wesee that while the line then ended just beyond the Elmheart» •Hotel, which was stop 23, there was a proposed continuation,to Payne Beach, Lighthouse Beach, Davidson Beach and HiltonBeach and apparently beyond, where it goes off the map. Thetotal length of the line as actually built was 7.25 mi with.45 of a mile for sidings, .24 of a mile for storage for atotal of 7.94 mi. Of this 7 miles was considered the road-way and .94 of a mile is what they called "public." I alsoasked Mr. Wiedman about the use of highly explosive propanegas and he said that they did use propane. In the case ofthe Manchester Hotel at Ridge and Manitou, the explosionwas caused when a man went out with an open lantern. Hesays that they got electricity in 1912."-8-
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Question: "Did you ever have any fires or any incidents of thatWiedmanCaswellWiedmannature?""In 1931, we had two fires. . „smoking in bed. We were ontop of them both times. If we had been sleeping- . .wewould have been burned out. We haven't had a roomer sincewe gaye all the furniture -away.""Did you ever have any famous individuals who stayed here,Mr . Wiedman *""No."Caswell- "But you did, I think, say that there were some famous bandsthat came here . "Wiedman: "We had Big Bands for 10 years."CaswellrWiedman:CaswellWiedmanCaswell:Wiedman:Caswell :Wiedman:Caswell:"Can you name some of them?""Krupa, Goodman, Les Brown, Ina Rae Hutton, Gilda Gray,Teagarden, Henry Bussey, Chick Webb, Ella Fitzgerald.Jimmy Lunceford outdrew them all - 6 times he was here."»"And they played in the building outside here which wasthen - a dance hall? And later was what?""A boat storage. Everybody dressed up in those days and wehad no police...now they would tear it apart.""When was that building built?"II 9Oc ."How long has it been empty?""We haven't had a dance since '69."It is still in good condition. a ■your hotel is in excellentcondition also. Is that just because you have kept it-9-
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painted? Is it a well-built building?"Wiedman: "It is well-built and we keep it up. Ule painted it lastSpelman:Wiedman:Caswell :Spelman"Wiedman:Spelman:WiedmanWiedman»pelman:Caswellsummer - two coats. That was in 1976.""Were you related to Andy Wiedman?""Yes. His Nephew.""While you were out, Ed, he mentioned his cousin,O'Loughlin.. you know that name, of course, very well."Wiedman: "Wasn't he down at Summerville - ran a beer joint inSummerville„?""YeahThat's his.""Silk and Mickey... its a Hippie Joint now.""I live about a mile east of there in what was a whitecanvas tent in 1912, when I went there.""Zimmerman...A name I recall."Spelman: "Yeah, he was president of the White City, Summerville andWindsor Beach Athletic Association.""These places- were boarded half way up and the rest wastent.""I know that.""Ed, maybe this is a good time for you to tell about yourtent that became a house.. That's what it was, right?"Spelman: "Yes, I lived in a white canvas tent. The area got itsname, White City because there were all the white canvastents. About the time of the first war the price of canvaswent up very high, so we converted the tent to a cottage bycovering the 2x4 framework that supported the tent...we10-
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covered that with wood and put roll roofing paper over it."Caswell: "What's the dimensions of your house?"SpelmanCaswell"Sixteen feet wide and eighty-one feet long.""Sort of a forerunner of the trailer. Today those tentshave become cottages. Have most of them actually been turn-ed into cottages or are there a lot of empty spaces.?"Spelman: "No, I'd say practically all of them are converted intocottages and most of them are used the year around.. .veryfew are not occupied in the winter...! don't thinkCaswellWiedmanWiedmanWiedmanthere is 1% not occupied in the winter."You started to talk about the Rendezvous. What was thatMr. Wiedman.""The Rendezvous was a dance hall at Summerville."Spelman: "A man by the name of Kane rented the Hotel Windsor.probably about the time prohibition went into effectaround 1919. ""That's where I first saw Lunceford. I brought him up hereafter that. Jimmy Lunceford, had a black band.. He died,suddenly, dropped dead,. "Caswell: "You're talking about the old Rendezvous, wasn't that avery well know prohibition dive? There was one down thereCaswell :at Summerville. We went there as kids.""You're thinking about Bengles. O'Loughlin was right acrossthe street from it.""This Rendezvous was where?"-11
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Wiedman: "On the Lakefront..corner of Third Street."Spelman: "A fellow by the name of Kane came up here from Schenectadyand tried to operate a 50 cent a piece dance at the Windsorand.it didn't take very well. So he went down to Summer-ville and bought the old cottage on the lakefront on thecorner of Third St. and tore the cottage down and built thisdance hall that he called, "Kanes Dance Tavern" ..thenlater it got called "The Rendezvous." And then it became aroller skating rink, later Kodak rented it for a warehouse..they stored a lot of material in there and then it wasn'tlong after that it was torn down."Wiedman: "Pop's Inn on the Beach."Spelman: "That was the old Rochester Yacht Club built in 1877 and Popcame here as near as I can estimate, about 1910."*Wiedman: "My cousin had a place on the lake near the Coast Guard andhe had that place further up. It was O'Loughlin.. he hadtwo places., that's where that Italian fellow is now.. TheHarbour Lounge. Married an Irish woman..he's an Italian.Spelman:Wiedman*Some kind of cove.""Oh, Cove... that isn't quite the right name.""Odenbach had Pearl. ..O'Loughlin had both places."Spelman: "Yeah, Sam Gottry operated it as a restaurant for quite awhile. He was the son of the Gottry Carting Company and he»operated that as a restaurant."Wiedman? "They had two fires while he was there. Yeah, it was somecove...still there an Italian name like Barbous Cove.."Spelman: "Barbarians Cove"
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Wiedrnan:Speiman"Caswell -Spelman:Q'Loughlin had that place."Spelman:Wiedrnan:Spelman:Wiedrnan:CaswellWiedrnan» hZegowicz Market ~ originally that was the name.""When you say market - a meat market?""Meat market, grocery store and of course they sold gas-oline. The grocery stores all sold gasoline, when I wasa kid. There weren't any gas stations. There may have beena few downtown but out in the outskirts you went to thegrocery store and bought gasoline."Wiedrnan: "Was Barry Sexton in Charlotte?""Yeah.""He was famous for Charlotte suckers, popcorn, -fritters.He was a Judge, too.""I didn't know that.""He was a cripple. He had exclusive on all the concess-ions. He netted thirty thousand there one year. You'd getoff the trolley and you could smell that popcorn."Spelman: "Well, there was a girl who operated the place there, calledKappy Sexton's Place...Oh that was the daughter of Larry."* •"You're talking about down in Charlotte.""It was like Coney Island. The trains would, go in the parkand let the passengers right out on the beach."Caswell: "Mr. Wiedrnan has been talking about the old toboggan, whichwas here on Manitou Beach and how every Saturday night theyhad an ambulance at hand because there was so manyaccidents. There was a slide into the water and the pictureshows Mr. Wiedrnan in front of it with his suspenders, short-13
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hair and he said that the trouble was that this toboggan notonly had rollers but it ran on a track and got up to speedsof 40 mph. Meanwhile, other people were coming back up withtheir toboggans so collisions were inevitable. He was say-ing that the trolley went a little ways past the hotel andthere was a turn-around. There was a bumper there too so itcouldn't go any farther and then they turned the trolleyaround and started back on the trestle to Charlotte filledwith the drunks who had had a happy day at the Elmheart."Mr. Wiedman has a beautiful colorful postcard of the.area ineairly days, - it is postmarked 1912. It shows a merry-go-round, the trolley on its way up to the turn-around and inthe background the Odenbach Hotel. And on the roof is avery large painted sign "MANITOU". Mr. Wiedman says atnight it was lighted up and could be seen for many miles.The ladies and gentlemen are parading along in front withtheir long dresses, the men in suspenders and bowler hats."THE ENDThe Colony Club picnic pavilion and club house on the sand spit, Manitou Beach. Old Skinner Hotel left of pavilion.

 

[Cherokee]

Have you hunted in that area? I live in W. Irondequiot and would like to give that area a try.

 

[Montana Jim]

Was there last month while visiting Rochester...

Great pics Gypsy!

I have no idea if there is detecting allowed... but I'm sure it's a city owned beach.

 

[Cherokee]

It's not part of the city (I'm a retired Rochester PD sergeant). Manitou Beach Rd dead ends at the beach (duh) and there are homes in that area (built mostly in the 60's, 70's, and still being built to this day). I believe that area is part of the Town of Hamlin. I'll check to be sure, though. There are still some vacant lot and small fields there. I may scout out the area this Sunday and try to talk to some of the locals. I'll let you know if I find anything out.

 

[Montana Jim]

It's not part of the city (I'm a retired Rochester PD sergeant). Manitou Beach Rd dead ends at the beach (duh) and there are homes in that area (built mostly in the 60's, 70's, and still being built to this day). I believe that area is part of the Town of Hamlin. I'll check to be sure, though. There are still some vacant lot and small fields there. I may scout out the area this Sunday and try to talk to some of the locals. I'll let you know if I find anything out.

Oh crap... I'm thinking up to the Bay, by the failed ferry crossing... I'm on the wrong beach!

 

[Cherokee]

Montana Jim, the city "beach" is called Charlotte Beach. I do hunt there because it was as popular as Manitou Beach Park back in the day. I've only found newer coins. I usually get a coin about every 10-15 minutes. I usually search the area of the refurbished wooden horse rides, etc. Although, the Manitou Beach area you posted looks even more promising for old coins and such.

 

[471405]

I think Manitou Beach is too far east to be owned by Hamlin... it may be North Greece.

 

[Montana Jim]

I think Manitou Beach is too far east to be owned by Hamlin... it my be North Greece.

Hmmm... good call, because there is also the Hamlin Beach area...

 

[471405]

I will be camping at Hamlin Beach this weekend... gonna try to sneak in some detecting.

 

[Cherokee]

I used to work for the NYS Park Police (seasonal) when I retired from RPD. I was stationed out of Hamlin Beach State Park. Be very careful - MDing is definitely not allowed in NY State Parks. The Park Police WILL confiscate your detector and WILL issue you an appearance ticket for Hamlin Town Court. I'm not kidding. To be totally honest with you, you would not find anything of real value there. It's not worth losing your metal detector over. The full-time Park Police officers will be notified by the park staff if they see you with your detector. Trust me on this.

 

[471405]

thanks for the info guys. I'll call the office to find out about a permit. I find it hard to believe that there is nothing to find on the beach or around all the picnic tables.

 

[Montana Jim]

NY state parks are not off limits. A permit can be purchased usually for around $10. Just call the park office and ask about getting the MD permit. The only thing is they only allow it during the off season from
mid September through mid May.

I know this to be true.

 

[Cherokee]

NY state parks are not off limits. A permit can be purchased usually for around $10. Just call the park office and ask about getting the MD permit. The only thing is they only allow it during the off season from
mid September through mid May.

I know this to be true.

Well all I can say is good luck to you and good hunting.

 

[471405]

I'll heed your warning and not hunt there. It's not worth risking my MD and being kicked out of the campground. But, I do know people who hunt there a few times a summer and have never had a problem. I think they go to area 2 which isn't really maintained anymore. (It might be area 3).

I don't recall them ever finding anything significant.

Is Lakeside Beach a state park? I haven't been there in a long time so I don't remember who owns it.

 

[Cherokee]

Here is an interesting website regard MDing in NY: http://www.metal-detecting-ghost-towns-of-the-east.com/metal-detecting-in-New-York.html

Lakeside Beach State Park is run the same as Hamlin Beach State Park. The each park manager lives right in the parks. In regards to MDing in Hamlin, the Park Police substation is located in the center of the park just near the entrance to the campsites. A Park Police Officer and/or Park Ranger was mandated to stay in these parks until 0400hrs (I used to work the 1800-0400hrs shift). I am no longer a Seasonal Park Police/Park Ranger (since 2005), so I'm not up to date on any changes. I do remember a guy losing his detector to the Park Police in Hamlin Beach State Park but I am not aware of what the circumstances were.

I have been MDing Genesee Valley Park (City of Rochester) and have been having success there with newer coins. So far, I'm the only one that goes out there. The Genesee River runs right through the middle of it and the original bandstands (refurbished) are still there. That park has an interesting history to it. Check it out on the website.

 

[NiagracountyNY]

I went to hamlin with the wife and kids last summer.talked to parks guys about detecting.You can only detect the BEACH and only a certain time of the year.That means all that grass hasnt been detected.I think its total crap they dont let me detect that.I pay alot of taxxes in this state and i cant look in the grass at that park,,wit or without a permit.Must be nice to be the guy on his high horse dictating these stupid rules..That park is dead for the size of it.its in dis repair in areas and they are worried about me digging a flap to get to the coins and all the gargbage i would remove.They had 1 beach open out of about 8 ..The place is dieing,and yet they dont want us to detect.I dont understand the reasoning behind the park laws other than some desk jockey made the laws knowing nothing about the hobby.I hope someone who makes these laws takes up the hobby so we can have some changes made.We need to set up like New England where we work together with the gov to save our finds.Happy hunting guys

 

[DigitNY]

I went to hamlin with the wife and kids last summer.talked to parks guys about detecting.You can only detect the BEACH and only a certain time of the year.That means all that grass hasnt been detected.I think its total crap they dont let me detect that.I pay alot of taxxes in this state and i cant look in the grass at that park,,wit or without a permit.Must be nice to be the guy on his high horse dictating these stupid rules..That park is dead for the size of it.its in dis repair in areas and they are worried about me digging a flap to get to the coins and all the gargbage i would remove.They had 1 beach open out of about 8 ..The place is dieing,and yet they dont want us to detect.I dont understand the reasoning behind the park laws other than some desk jockey made the laws knowing nothing about the hobby.I hope someone who makes these laws takes up the hobby so we can have some changes made.We need to set up like New England where we work together with the gov to save our finds.Happy hunting guys

No offense, but that's what you get when you ask permission. Their has been a lot of debate over this, don't want to get into it again, just my opinion.

 

[alfredgeorge]

Does anyone buy the melted silver coins from these sights I have over 7oz's as well as platinum and gold I have tested myself all are melted coins . With a scope you can see they are coins melted