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Thread: Buying Paydirt or Concentrates: Why you Shouldn't..

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  1. #61
    Charter Member
    us
    TerrySoloman.com

    May 2010
    Congress, AZ - White Plains, NY
    Tesoro Cult Member - Tejon; Sand Shark; Lobo Super Traq; Vaquero; Cibola; Compadre - Minelab GPX 5000
    6,321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Soloman View Post
    I get calls every week from folks looking to buy "Concentrates," of bagged "Paydirt" from us. Many companies and individuals sell concentrates, or dirt that has been dug from a placer gold claim then run through a drywasher or trommel to "Concentrate" the paydirt down to its heaviest properties. This is then bagged by the pound and sold for anywhere from $10-$250.00 depending on the "quality" of the paydirt.

    I don't sell paydirt because it is a scam. I don't care what company from Alaska to Arizona, it is not worth your money. You will be better off simply buying gold flakes and cutting the dirt baggers right out of the equation. Think about it for just a second.. If the paydirt was THAT rich, why not just mine it yourself?

    Bags and shipping, advertising and filling orders is expensive and time consuming, AND they are going to GIVE you gold to? No gold prospector in history is going to sell you gold for less than it cost them to get out of the ground. Gold amounts are carefully weighed into each bag. Sometimes nuggets are placed in bags going to "good" repeat customers, in order to make the buy even more bags..

    If you want to practice gold panning, get some dirt, some fish tank gravel, a little sand and some Shotgun Birdshot. Mix it all up real good, and practice panning out the birdshot.
    You have now been officially informed, go in peace.
    That is my Original post here folks, and I just wanted to remind you of it. Sounds like the Greenhorns are happy, and Kugar is laughing all the way to the bank. As long as we are all able to sleep at night, everybody goes home happy.

  2. #62

    Nov 2007
    ,M.X.T.& Tesoro Tejon
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    Terry you have managed to ignore my question to you about different your school is from somebody selling Pay dirt?Maybe I should stalk you and tell everybody what a scam your opinions on how to get gold are?How do you figure I am laughing all the way to the bank?Do you guarantee your students will find gold every trip out?Do you not charge for these lessons you provide?So enlighten to me how I am running a scam?Please....
    M.X.T , Tesoro Tejon



    "A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than a gun in the hands of 200 million law-abiding citizens."

  3. #63
    us
    Aug 2012
    Massachusetts
    Whites, Garrett
    283
    53 times
    Gold Panning, Metal detecting, beach combing, shooting, photography, genealogy, gardening
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Soloman View Post
    That is my Original post here folks, and I just wanted to remind you of it. Sounds like the Greenhorns are happy, and Kugar is laughing all the way to the bank. As long as we are all able to sleep at night, everybody goes home happy.
    Kuger is laughing all the way to the bank the way the US is laughing all the way to the bank by running a deficit. I bought a pound of paydirt of Kuger for $55 and found $63 (well today $68) worth of gold and haven't even worked the fines that are still in the black sands.

    I also agree with Kuger, when someone pays for a school do they get more gold than the cost of the school? Shouldn't the schools teach the students for free? They are getting people interested in prospecting after all. Some of us want to practice on real gold so we buy from places like Felix, however some of us, like myself want to find real gold, yes with a chance of getting skunked, but also with a chance of getting lucky. I have bad arthritis and after a day of panning the next day I cannot get out of bed, and I have yet to find any gold in the wild. But with Kuger's paydirt I feel like I am connected to his claim.
    Also he does what I wish everyone did, figures out what the paydirt is liable to yield and charges based on that. This is dirt he didn't have time to pan himself. You don't know what you will get but you won't get screwed.
    Also what is the difference if you pay to go to a claim and pan, sort of like Cripple Creek in Alaska, with no guarantee of finding anything, vs. someone has done the initial work and you now do the finish work? If I go to Cripple Creek I can pay airfare and lodging and the cost of the "vacation" will I find even half that amount in gold? Also someone is putting you right on the gold, what is the difference except that you are in the great outdoors. I pan outside so when I work my paydirt I am in the great outdoors. So far I have done 3 trips up north and not a spec, yes I enjoy the chase but I also like to find gold. I really don't like salted paydirt which is why I buy from Kuger, I feel like a partner on his claim, but for me to fly out there to help him work it, it would be expensive.

    Kuger - I am saving up for paydirt next year, let me know as soon as it is available! I enjoy being a "partner".
    Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #59

    "Free advice is seldom cheap"



    Best find, 2 rolls of Walking Liberty Halves in bunch of 32 CWR

  4. #64

    Nov 2007
    ,M.X.T.& Tesoro Tejon
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    Thank you sir,well said.....yea do the Math Terry....I am getting rich huh?I wont be surprised to see an onslaught of other customers with similar to your results post on this....maybe the 86 year old gentleman that cant go get dirt him self,or maybe the 33 year old double amputee Veteran,or maybe one of the many people who have dreamed there whole lives of coming west and digging for gold only to have lost there retirements in the last few years....
    I do not advertise,and the buyer pays the shipping....

    I actually have around five five gallon buckets of cons left that are not for sale.....ask around,I am done for the year...not selling any more this year.These buckets are what I will work as I get time,between,two jobs,two kids and a ranch to run.....yea,I am going to the bank all right....to pull out more money to pay the bills!!
    I am waiting to see your guarantee Terry...are you making a living Fleecing the "Green horns"?
    Last edited by kuger; Sep 14, 2012 at 04:57 PM.
    M.X.T , Tesoro Tejon



    "A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than a gun in the hands of 200 million law-abiding citizens."

  5. #65
    us
    Sep 2012
    Bakersfield,CA
    Gold Bug Pro.
    268
    23 times
    Prospecting
    you will Ben,

    I think the best part of getting gold is that your the first one to get it out of the ground and look at it could be worth nothing but a true prize to me...

  6. #66
    Charter Member
    us
    TerrySoloman.com

    May 2010
    Congress, AZ - White Plains, NY
    Tesoro Cult Member - Tejon; Sand Shark; Lobo Super Traq; Vaquero; Cibola; Compadre - Minelab GPX 5000
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuger View Post
    Terry you have managed to ignore my question to you about different your school is from somebody selling Pay dirt?Maybe I should stalk you and tell everybody what a scam your opinions on how to get gold are?How do you figure I am laughing all the way to the bank?Do you guarantee your students will find gold every trip out?Do you not charge for these lessons you provide?So enlighten to me how I am running a scam?Please....
    How is Arizona Gold Adventures, different than you selling paydirt?
    We cater to completely different customers. Our customers range from very serious people learning as much as they can about top-of-the line gold prospecting equipment such as drywashers, highbankers, trommels, VLF and PI metal detectors, to folks just crossing “Gold Prospecting” off of their bucket lists, to families enjoying a wild west gold prospecting trip together. When they leave, they take home a lot more than gold or a meteorite Kugar, they take home solid knowledge, experience, the ability to pan gold correctly, to choose equipment and locations wisely by themselves and for many, lifelong memories of their time with us in the gold and meteorite fields of Arizona.

    You cater to folks that can't, or don't want to leave their living rooms, and don't mind paying you a premium for bagged dirt with some gold flakes sprinkled in.

    Here is a link to our Frequently Asked Questions page Questions, Gold Prospecting, Metal Detecting I hope it answers the rest of your questions.

    As far as “stalking” you my paranoid forum brother, try and keep in mind I started this thread. God Bless!

  7. #67
    us
    Aug 2012
    Massachusetts
    Whites, Garrett
    283
    53 times
    Gold Panning, Metal detecting, beach combing, shooting, photography, genealogy, gardening
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowRider View Post
    I'd rather have the fun of going out looking myself then buying a 'salted' bag o' dirt or a school... but thats my opinion
    I an new to prospecting but an old time metal detectorist, I prefer to hunt town squares and old yard, but I know people that prefer salted fields the ones they set up for detecting competitions.
    But to TS and ShadowRider, yes most of the bags of dirt are salted but to infer that Kuger salts his paydirt is nuts, or he works for this administration. The dirt I and the dirt others have gotten had more gold than the cost of the dirt. Kuger figures out what a bucket of his dirt is running and sells it for that, yes you can get less than you pay for, but most people get the same or more.
    I will never get out west to pan, so I am relagated to panning New England streams where even a single speck of flour gold is considered a good weekend. I go to the river when I can, but since I work for a living I am not able to get there very often, so far in 3 trips I have found alot of Garnets but no gold, not a speck. I practice panning with flakes of lead leftover from my making bullets, got pretty good at it. I have friends who have found an entire 5 grains of gold in the last year here in the NE, I hope to get that lucky. In the meantime if I can buy some paydirt and pan out some real gold I am thrilled.

    I am a Disabled Vet (US Navy 1972-1976 during Vietnam) and there are many days I just cannot face the 3+ hour trip up north, in fact right now I am wearing my knee brace. But I love the outdoors and the experiance and am still trying to find that first fine.
    I will say I have no problem buying paydirt, even from someplace like Felix that may or may not salt their dirt, my wife got hooked on this hobby and that is what it is a hobby, by dirt bags.
    Speaking of Hobby, I belong to an HO train club, I pay $30 a month to run trains around in a circle. We build buildings, most members have hundreds of dollars of train cars and engines and have spent thousands on scenery, will they get anything out of it, except enjoyment? No, as soon as you buy an train engine the value drops by half even if it unopened. I can't think of a hobby and that includes gold prospecting in New England that you will actually make money on (my guns apart from that as until the 2nd amendment is overturned they keep going up in value).

    But as to Kuger, you should try buying some of his paydirt, I think you will be surprised, I was, pleasantly!
    Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #59

    "Free advice is seldom cheap"



    Best find, 2 rolls of Walking Liberty Halves in bunch of 32 CWR

  8. #68
    Charter Member
    us
    TerrySoloman.com

    May 2010
    Congress, AZ - White Plains, NY
    Tesoro Cult Member - Tejon; Sand Shark; Lobo Super Traq; Vaquero; Cibola; Compadre - Minelab GPX 5000
    6,321
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    Metal Detecting
    Hey Ben, God Bless you man and thank you for your service. I am giving my opinion. If you and Kugar want to turn the thread into an ad for buying paydirt that's fine. You're happy, I'm happy. Go in peace and pan your gold. - Terry US Army 1/41 FA 1973-1976

  9. #69
    us
    Aug 2012
    Massachusetts
    Whites, Garrett
    283
    53 times
    Gold Panning, Metal detecting, beach combing, shooting, photography, genealogy, gardening
    TS
    Thank you for your service, we probably chewed some of the same dirt.

    I will agree with you that most sellers of paydirt are in it to simply make money and are very careful in what they give you. They will hold out the "chance" of a bonanza to people, but that doesn't make them bad, no worse than people going to casino's who think they will get rich.
    But I bet most people who buy do it because they enjoy it, yes some believe the hype from most sellers (not all) and think they will get more, but I bet most do it for the fun. To me it isn't the same if you salt it yourself, although I will agree with you that it may be as good or better for practice. If you know how many flakes or pickers are there because you put them there you know if you got them all. I would like to do that but I worry too much about losing some, in fact when my son was panning paydirt and got a couple pickers I was actually jealous and had to force myself to let him keep them.
    I am glad we can all discuss our different opinions. This treasure hunting hobby covers so many people, even people who haunt yard sales.

    I wouldn't mind coming to your school to learn even more, maybe someday.
    Last edited by Ben Cartwright SASS; Sep 14, 2012 at 09:14 PM.
    Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #59

    "Free advice is seldom cheap"



    Best find, 2 rolls of Walking Liberty Halves in bunch of 32 CWR

  10. #70
    us
    When you get Tired of the every day grind you turn to a place an time to slow down. Gold prospecting a way of life...

    Oct 2010
    Alabama/ Ohio
    GTI-2500, Whites V3, xplorer XS Cortes & XLT cibola ) Now using a Xterra 705, Tesoro Tiger shark and XLT
    802
    46 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    That is the truth man they all pepper the dirt with flour gold and get the person hooked. Myself I am gonna go out and get my own dirt and on the bucket put the GPS coordinates so I know where the dirt came from HH everyone

  11. #71
    us
    Aug 2012
    Massachusetts
    Whites, Garrett
    283
    53 times
    Gold Panning, Metal detecting, beach combing, shooting, photography, genealogy, gardening
    I am going to NH next Thursday to the Wild Ammonoosic, the Nutmeg Treasure Hunters are there for the week, I told them I would come up the day and hopefully learn something and also maybe get a flack. 2 weeks later I am doing an overnight there but the wife told me that we can pan the first day but she insisted that we go rockhounding for Topaz at the other end of the Kanc the second day. after that the season is mostly over.

    As shadowrider says "you gotta do what you gotta do" I say I do what I enjoy, whether it is paydirt or going in the field. The nice thing about this hobby is there is room for everyone, those who look only for financial gain and measure success that way and those who do it for the fresh air and the chance to maybe someday find something while realizing they will never break even and those who pay to play.

    We are all considered kind of odd, at least by the people I know in the Boston area.
    Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #59

    "Free advice is seldom cheap"



    Best find, 2 rolls of Walking Liberty Halves in bunch of 32 CWR

  12. #72

    Nov 2007
    ,M.X.T.& Tesoro Tejon
    9,708
    2654 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (1)
    Dont have time to read all the replies except Terry's,you provide a service,good for you,mine is a different service and no I dont salt my dirt.You can ask any of my customers that have bought from me two to three times this year or years past and see if the totals every vary greatly.I dont make a living doing this and dont see why you lump all "Gold baggers",together.I take offence to it,because you have no knowledge of how my deal works.I dont bash you for "Mining the miners",and that is exactly what you are doing,but I wont go as far as calling you a scammer....after all your method is just that....your method
    M.X.T , Tesoro Tejon



    "A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than a gun in the hands of 200 million law-abiding citizens."

  13. #73
    us
    Sep 2012
    Bakersfield,CA
    Gold Bug Pro.
    268
    23 times
    Prospecting
    well guys i think this is turning for the worst here so let me throw in my opinion here, i think you both provide a good survice to either new or old prospectores alike when i was new i bought a bag of paydirt i paid 10 bucks and it was a blast got my whole family hooked and i learned alot from panning over and over again but i wouldnt mind going on a gold adventure to gain more knowledge and experience it just depends on the prospector but both survaces have a good place in prospecting.
    i too am a disabled vet army 1/15 FA 99-02. i find that alot of prospectores are vets and we find a comman bond there.

  14. #74
    us
    Aug 2012
    Massachusetts
    Whites, Garrett
    283
    53 times
    Gold Panning, Metal detecting, beach combing, shooting, photography, genealogy, gardening
    bylynch35 Thank you for your service sir, I work in the peoples republick of Cambridge MA and forget how many of us there are out there, in my company there are only 4 Veterans, also while walking the sidewalk there you get the same looks from people that I get when I wear my NRA jacket there, not as bad as during Vietnam when we were called baby killers and had our cars keyed, but you can tell when these Harvard Students don't like the sight of you.

    My final thought on this thread, as a newbie I have bought some paydirt, and will continue to buy from selected sellers. I know that for the majority of sellers it is about the money and definately salt their dirt and won't buy more from them. For my son's and wife I may try making some paydirt as TS suggests, but for myself I will still buy from Kuger. With him I get either close to my money back or more than I paid, I still buy powerball tickets, the fact that a year ago I won $4 and have spent at least $200 since then doesn't stop me, I guess there is still the element of the unknown, will I get lucky? Besides it is what I enjoy right now, that will probably change over time.

    But the best thing I have done is to contact and will be joining the Nutmeg Treasure hunters. Gold is very hard to find here in New England but it is there and they should be able to show me what I am doing wrong. I am sorry to see this thread get contentious, and I have contributed to that. To me prospecting is about the hunt, here in Mass I probably will never even come close to paying for my gas, but I have finally found an activity gold panning AND rockhounding that my wife is interested in and likes to do with me.
    You should have seen how excited the first time last month when she found some yellow mica, she yelled out I have gold. I had to burst her bubble but she was hooked. When she panned her first flake from paydirt she couldn't stop looking at it.
    Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #59

    "Free advice is seldom cheap"



    Best find, 2 rolls of Walking Liberty Halves in bunch of 32 CWR

  15. #75
    us
    Sep 2012
    Bakersfield,CA
    Gold Bug Pro.
    268
    23 times
    Prospecting
    thats good to hear ben i have yet to get my wife to the river but she is at the blue bowl as soon as i get home she doesnt like to get here hands dirty but me and the kids love it im glad you found a club i also have found a club kern county prospectors they are going on a outing today but i get off work at 6:00am and they head out at 7:45am im still pretty young only 33 but i cant pull 48hrs no sleep so im going to have to catch the next one good luck to ya hope you find a pan full and thank you for your service my father inlaw was in the third ID MARINES in vietnam he went back twice he couldnt take all the people when he got back still wont talk about it and i dont pry. i was in for sept 11th and that was a shock i could only imagin what you have been through thank you and good luck

 

 
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