Buying a claim

[Nuggetbrain]

Hey all.

I am nowhere near the point of buying a claim, but I have seen websites offering them as well as claims being sold on ebay (as I am sure you folks are aware of).

What are your thoughts on claims? Where and or how do people buy a claim legitimately?

Just interested in learning more!

Thanks.

Tim

 

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[fowledup]

I'm not a hobby miner, I'm an outlaw or so they'd have the general populous believe.

Couple more thoughts on buying a claim. Most never get past the romantic notion of having their "own private Idaho". So.....First ask why do you want one. Better gold? Camping spot? Privacy? Easy access? Know this, those four things seldom come together in one package. Better gold usally means poor access, lots of work and a remote location. A camping spot with easy access more than likely has been pounded for the last 150 years +. Privacy? Yes, exclusivity? no, gotta share- anyone at anytime can come play in your playground providing they aren't mining. And like the favorite campsite that you can now reserve at the campground no such luck, you may show up at your claim and have to sleep in your truck down the road until the happy campers decide to leave. Also the services at the campground you take for granted like water, garbage, and waste facilities are now your responsibility and will be monitored. Which brings us to liability, yep you are now liable for most everything, you won't be allowed to do anything to the land like you'd like, but should something happen to it yours will be the first door they knock on. Guarantees- none, that picker you found day one could be the only gold you ever find on it. This happened to a friend of mine. He can't sell it (honesty is a hell of a character flaw, right?- lol) so he can either keep paying fees on a worthless claim or forfeit it and take a bath on the ridiculous amount he paid for it.
Being new to prospecting and mining, join a club- you won't regret it as it will really shorten your learning curve in all things mining and keep you out of trouble. You'll meet like minded folks and eventually that claim with your name on it will come to you in time. You may decide you like the club deal better, pay your dues go mine, no regulatory hassles needed. Most clubs have a pretty good selection of claims for the club members to pick from.

I probably sound pretty negative about claims, don't mean to as that is actually the farthest thing from the truth. I love our claims, one in particular is as close to heaven as I'll ever be while still walking and breathing. Stepping onto it is one big fat dose of AAAHHHHHHHHHHH, and the outside world goes bye bye, no place on earth I'd rather be! Bad part is it just got around 2' of snow and we won't be seeing it anytime soon.

 

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[okbasspro]

OK, whatever floats yer boat.... I'm not going to get into a pissin match with ya over semantics...... By the way.... That's one hell of a commute.....

Don't want a pissing match but as a claim owner I can not and will not use the H word. It's all good as long as you enjoy what you do. As far as buying a claim I would never do it. To big a chance of getting shafted. Lots of open ground to go mine or play on. When you find a good deposit file on it for a lot less than buying one. Check out MyLandMatters.com they have all the land info you need.

 

[Goldwasher]

Miner -
One whose work or business it is to extract ore or minerals from the earth.

Hobby -
An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure.


Seems pretty clear cut and dry to me. All the BLM semantics and wording does not change the fact that a "miner" does it for a living and a "hobbyist" does not.

In my opinion (as a Colorado claim owner for 6 whole days now)....if you are not making this your life blood and paying your bills with it. Your have no "right" to call yourself a miner. You do it for a hobby.

You are using the BLM wording as a way to puff your own feathers....while real miners put food on their tables.

Walk into a mining towns bar and tell them all about your little sluice and trommel set-up and how you consider yourself a "miner". Enjoy your butt-whooping.

This will always be a hobby to me....unless I hit a pay-streak to retire on. They I will call myself a miner as I will be there 24/7 making my living.

Shame on you guys for jumping down his throat for calling a duck a duck. He meant no harm and he is absolutely right. 95% of the members here ARE hobbyists. Nobody considers weekend diggers true "miners" other then the small circles you populate with such talk.

If somebody ask you what you do for a living and you say "I am a miner" because that is what you do ALL THE TIME to make money.....then you have a right to make a fuss and I will apologize now for assuming.

you don't understand the point or mining law.....the courts have ruled against people digging and not preserved their rights or enforced the protections miners have under law....strictly because those people digging called it a " hobby"...and the judge could not rule to protect them. The f.s. and dept. of fish and w. will try if they can to label you a hobbyist so they can strip you of your rights.
Your claim is not valid if when asked you can not prove its valuable resource and you prudence in recovering it.
say you have 20 acres and it has 15 k in reserves in the ground. I would take its held value seriously and wouldn't consider it a hobby to recover it.
No one is fluffing their own feathers just some of us take it a very different way because of what we have seen happen to "HOBBY MINERS"
Don't be offended we are just trying to create a solid foundation of understanding. There are a lot of important words in mining law....."Hobby" is not one of them. And will not protect you if you have a difference of opinion with BLM or F.S.

 

[TheHunterGT]

you don't understand the point or mining law.....the courts have ruled against people digging and not preserved their rights or enforced the protections miners have under law....strictly because those people digging called it a " hobby"...and the judge could not rule to protect them. The f.s. and dept. of fish and w. will try if they can to label you a hobbyist so they can strip you of your rights.
Your claim is not valid if when asked you can not prove its valuable resource and you prudence in recovering it.
say you have 20 acres and it has 15 k in reserves in the ground. I would take its held value seriously and wouldn't consider it a hobby to recover it.
No one is fluffing their own feathers just some of us take it a very different way because of what we have seen happen to "HOBBY MINERS"
Don't be offended we are just trying to create a solid foundation of understanding. There are a lot of important words in mining law....."Hobby" is not one of them. And will not protect you if you have a difference of opinion with BLM or F.S.

I'm sorry but I do understand. I have my own claim and I know the semantics of the law. Like I stated in my 2nd sentence under the definitions....it is all BLM wording. I CLEARLY understand why you need to label yourself a miner on a document or a court proceeding.

That is not what is happening here. You guys are jumping down his throat for saying you do this as a hobby. Which 95% of you do...including me. Should you be marking that down on BLM paperwork? Obviously not.

However, you sure as hell should not going to go off spouting how you are a "miner" anywhere else other than that office or a court room...because you are not.

Just for fun I troubled a friend of a friend of a friend. He works underground digging copper. He surprised me by saying they have all had this conversation 20X during lunch break. His short and curt version was "Hell no they are not miners. We produce for the world...they barely fill their gas tanks with what they find in a week. Do they have other jobs that pay their mortgage and all that? Thought so. Expletive their wording".

He said his fellow workers had similar sentiments and then prattled on about how if you don't put out fires for a living you are no fireman....etc etc.

So there you have it. Call yourself whatever you like. That is none of my concern. Just don't try to shut somebody down and feel small for telling it EXACTLY how it is in 99% of everybody else's eyes.

 

[Asmbandits]

I'm no miner or hobbyist, im a prospector, I spend more time researching and out in the field than I do working, I own claims and am always searching for the land that I could mine full time so what does that make me? Call yourself whatever you want just watch what you classify it as to a gov official unless you want to give up your rights.

I've purchased a claim and located another, both have there good and down sides but honestly I'm beginning to like the one I purchased more as it has payed out better than the other by hand. The claim I located is probably much richer being on a major tributary but can only be worked profitable by dredge given the layout of the land. The purchased claim would be better for excavating and running gravel but they both share the same obsticals of being worked profitably given government restrictions.

 

[KevinInColorado]

Heavy sigh...we've been over this many times...
You tell yourself you are a hobbyist to make it feel better that you only bring home a little gold, but if you found a decent sized deposit producing an ounce an hour with just your trusty pan what would you do? I'd quit my job and work it full time and I bet most "hobbyist" types would too! This means you are a very part time, casual miner but still a miner, not a hobbyist.

Now add in the fact that your posts here can be used as evidence in a court case...yours, or someone else's even, to take away your access to the land and you see why the knives come out when folks use the word hobby. Just don't.

 

[fowledup]

Huntergt,
In law definitions are everything, and when it comes to retaining possesion of a claim the definitons are all that really count when it comes down to it. Doesn't matter what you or I think qualifies oneself as a miner. That in a roundabout way is kind of what the Prudent man law is all about. What qualifies as enough gold to live on or what makes a claim valuble to one and not another is up to the individual , time spent aquiring the gold isn't mentioned, it's all about purpose and intent. If I get 7oz.'s every weekend and you get an oz. a month mining everyday whose the miner and whose the hobbyist? If I work one full time job and another part time job, is the second job a hobby by default? I do have a fulltime job, and until I retire from the first, mining is my second part time job. Same goals - make money, turn a profit and provide for myself and family. Same responsibilities of filing and paying fees and taxes. Not a hobby, studying mining history is a hobby, collecting old mining equipment, and literature is a hobby. Because I love and enjoy mining and do it in the off time from my full time job doesn't make it a hobby, it just means I'm lucky enough to have found the right job for me. In all honesty I spend more time pursuing and perfecting my second job than I do my first fulltime job. As to your friend of a friends friend comment; that to me is a rather callous and cavalier statement to make made by an individual who he himself has a very small limited part in the world of mining. And I won't subscribe to the idea that because his danger factor or eqo is bigger he is more of a miner than I.

 

[Goldwasher]

see Fowled up your all wrong too. Collecting that Literature is valuable research...also not a hobby!!!

I definitely profit and pay bills right from the end of a shovel.....It is definitely a large chunk of my income. I own a claim and will locate more. Its hard to spend the lime locating when I have a claim so close to home and ample access to open gold bearing areas.

I respect anyone who works for a large outfit and agree they have a lot of exoerience and training. They hold the title of "Miner" I guess.
That doesn't elevate their status that far above the several people here who definitely are " MINERS" and their opinions don't make those " MINERS" participants in a " HOBBY"
The point we are trying to make is in the proper context and relevant.
Now were talking about what we should call ourselves in a bar? or in front of other people? Really?
Some mucker is gonna get mad because I don't always wear a hard hat and orange vest...so what.
I study, I explore , I sample , I dig, I sell, I pay bills. I'm a miner. I cut my own fricken paycheck !!!!

 

[johnedoe]

Results of a hobby miner....... Or to help ease the pain of reality perhaps "small scale miner" would be a better term, that way you can still keep the dream alive and conform to the definitions a court might require to maintain status.



Results of a Miner...............


Enough said.

 

[TheHunterGT]

Heavy sigh...we've been over this many times...
You tell yourself you are a hobbyist to make it feel better that you only bring home a little gold, but if you found a decent sized deposit producing an ounce an hour with just your trusty pan what would you do? I'd quit my job and work it full time and I bet most "hobbyist" types would too! This means you are a very part time, casual miner but still a miner, not a hobbyist.

Now add in the fact that your posts here can be used as evidence in a court case...yours, or someone else's even, to take away your access to the land and you see why the knives come out when folks use the word hobby. Just don't.

I respect you and have learned tons from you Kevin. But you simply have no idea what I tell myself after a day of digging. That is def not my reasoning for calling it a hobby so lets not go placing thoughts or words in others mouths.

Anybody in their right mind would drop everything and work the claim non-stop if they found a paystreak. That is why we all do this....for that hope and chance. Call yourself a miner then. Call yourself a miner now if it is your source of employment and income. Nothing wrong with that. The weekend warriors are just not miners IMO...they are hobbyists.

You are talking about a hypothetical court case that will never happen to 99.9% of claim owners. I don't do the "what if" stuff very well sorry. Hobby miner is not a phrase that will strip you of your claim. It just is not true.

They make "casual use" claims for a reason with little surface disturbance. The definition of a hobby miner. Pan and sluice.

We sent our NOI for mechanized equipment. Paid our fees and no issue. I can call it a hobby all I want as long as I show I am working in a non-casual manner on my claim. Hobbyists CAN own a claim.

Huntergt,
In law definitions are everything, and when it comes to retaining possesion of a claim the definitons are all that really count when it comes down to it. Doesn't matter what you or I think qualifies oneself as a miner. That in a roundabout way is kind of what the Prudent man law is all about. What qualifies as enough gold to live on or what makes a claim valuble to one and not another is up to the individual , time spent aquiring the gold isn't mentioned, it's all about purpose and intent. If I get 7oz.'s every weekend and you get an oz. a month mining everyday whose the miner and whose the hobbyist? If I work one full time job and another part time job, is the second job a hobby by default? I do have a fulltime job, and until I retire from the first, mining is my second part time job. Same goals - make money, turn a profit and provide for myself and family. Same responsibilities of filing and paying fees and taxes. Not a hobby, studying mining history is a hobby, collecting old mining equipment, and literature is a hobby. Because I love and enjoy mining and do it in the off time from my full time job doesn't make it a hobby, it just means I'm lucky enough to have found the right job for me. In all honesty I spend more time pursuing and perfecting my second job than I do my first fulltime job. As to your friend of a friends friend comment; that to me is a rather callous and cavalier statement to make made by an individual who he himself has a very small limited part in the world of mining. And I won't subscribe to the idea that because his danger factor or eqo is bigger he is more of a miner than I.

If you do it full-time or close to it then yes...I would call you a miner. I said as much earlier. Can you quote the law where is says that you cannot call yourself a hobbyist however? Serious question...no sarcasm. I looked 10 times and did not see anything about it. BLM wording even calls it a "casual use" claim. I understand the Prudent Man wording and why it is place. I did not make the connection you did or see any wording with "hobby" attached however.

see Fowled up your all wrong too. Collecting that Literature is valuable research...also not a hobby!!!

I definitely profit and pay bills right from the end of a shovel.....It is definitely a large chunk of my income. I own a claim and will locate more. Its hard to spend the lime locating when I have a claim so close to home and ample access to open gold bearing areas.

I respect anyone who works for a large outfit and agree they have a lot of exoerience and training. They hold the title of "Miner" I guess.
That doesn't elevate their status that far above the several people here who definitely are " MINERS" and their opinions don't make those " MINERS" participants in a " HOBBY"
The point we are trying to make is in the proper context and relevant.
Now were talking about what we should call ourselves in a bar? or in front of other people? Really?
Some mucker is gonna get mad because I don't always wear a hard hat and orange vest...so what.
I study, I explore , I sample , I dig, I sell, I pay bills. I'm a miner. I cut my own fricken paycheck !!!!

As I clearly stated....if it pays your bills....you are a miner. The miner guy was offended and was bit curt with me on the subject. To each their own. I think he is allowed to have an ego because he does the actual mining. No...it is not like military stolen valor or anything like that. Just baffles me is all. I respect all of you and surely think nothing less of anybody....I just disagree with you.


The bottom line is it is semantics. Whether it is law semantics or self-entitled semantics. I will admit I am open to learning more on this. But I have read the law 12 times and signed numerous forms and spent hours with BLM clerks. I did not see anywhere stating that if you do not call yourself a miner and use the word hobbyist that you will be ejected from your claim.

Like I said....call yourself whatever you guys want. It matters little me to be honest and I regret arguing the point in hindsight. The way you all handled it by jumping down johnedoe's throat was my issue. Could have handled it WAY differently and taught a lesson. Instead you all got ruffled and called him out like he is some bad guy because you want to be titled a certain way. Silly at best.

 

[TheHunterGT]

Results of a hobby miner....... Or to help ease the pain of reality perhaps "small scale miner" would be a better term, that way you can still keep the dream alive and conform to the definitions a court might require to maintain status.
View attachment 1144168


Results of a Miner...............
View attachment 1144170

Enough said.

It's because he was using a metal pan john. Real miners don't use plastic.

 

[fowledup]

No hard feeling, ill will, or disrespect intended. It does seem a trivial and silly ego thing but really isn't. As we have all seen from the articles, attacks, and court cases against us. They, the opposition to mining knows no limits or boundaries to what they will do or use against us. What may be a trivial ego booster to some may very well be a nail in the coffin on some other poor guys court case. Better to error on the side of caution and be consistent with my nomenclature I think. Those hypothetical court cases are common than you may realize. Do a Poll on here alone asking how many have had legal doings of one sort another. The percentage is higher than yoy think. To use a corny over used analogy in answer to the hypothetical court case, I'd say the odds of me getting in an accident aren't that great, besides I've already been in my "statistical" accident or two, so should I quit wearing a seat belt or just simply error on the side of caution no matter how ridiculous to me it may sound.

 

[TheHunterGT]

No hard feeling, ill will, or disrespect intended. It does seem a trivial and silly ego thing but really isn't. As we have all seen from the articles, attacks, and court cases against us. They, the opposition to mining knows no limits or boundaries to what they will do or use against us. What may be a trivial ego booster to some may very well be a nail in the coffin on some other poor guys court case. Better to error on the side of caution and be consistent with my nomenclature I think. Those hypothetical court cases are common than you may realize. Do a Poll on here alone asking how many have had legal doings of one sort another. The percentage is higher than yoy think. To use a corny over used analogy in answer to the hypothetical court case, I'd say the odds of me getting in an accident aren't that great, besides I've already been in my "statistical" accident or two, so should I quit wearing a seat belt or just simply error on the side of caution no matter how ridiculous to me it may sound.

I like how you made your point and I agree it is probably is better to just be safe than sorry. Cannot argue that logic. Ego is important to human nature. Perhaps I should not be so dismissive of it. I think it was a good analogy. You and Kevin and everybody in this thread are valued members here. Please buckle up and be safe gentlemen!

 

[johnedoe]

OK now..... lets all us small scale miners get back to work......

Also, I have no hard feelings toward any of you that disagree with me.... I am not a liberal that has to have things my way, nor am I thin skinned, I just calls it like I sees it.....