Buried "treasure" in Southeastern Pennsylvania

[MinerGirl]

Lorddean13,

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[sciflyer25]

Lorddean13, bang-up job by you. I have not been to the area since this thread has been started, so I have only done some research online. Next weekend I have some free time to make the drive to Warrington. Good luck in the search. If your search continues through the weekend and you want an extra hand, let us here on the thread know. If/when you do come back to the area, be sure to head to Chickie's & Pete's right up the street for some good food and ale.
Jim

[Frankn]

Miner Girl, I love your sence of humor, but it appears few get it.

Dogpound, that was a good one too.

SEPaMan, I think you are right. Your "neighbor" decided to spread the word to create an attraction.

Lorddean13, I thought the GPL 2000 maxed out between 50' & 80' depending on soil conditions, but that is still a hell of a dig. Making it more difficult than it really is? You mean you have figgered out the #'s?

The big question remains, is SEPaMan related to P.T. Barnum? We have to watch out or Jeff will move this to comedy central forum.

OK, which is the lion?

[SEPaMan]

cw0909 - Sorry but I wasn't able to determine whether or not the grandfather died in Warrington. My neighbor's memory is that he just disappeared sometime in the mid or early eighties. Is there a way to check records for the whole county?

sciflyer25 - Nice research but I must have missed the significance of sycamore trees, and you're not the first poster to mention them. By the way what's a "tesoro"?

lorddean13 - Was that photo taken at Nike Park? I don't recognize the area and I know for certain there are no well-manicured fields in the vicinity of the Reservoir. Be careful what you do in the ground there, a Nike Ajax facility was once located on that spot, and while the entrances are closed and buried the ground is still honeycombed with tunnels and other structures. Did the county historical society give you the runaround when you visited them? They received the letter too.

MinerGirl - I checked on the star map for you and this is what I found out. Say you have two constellations, call them C1 and C2, and each has three prominent stars, call them a, b, and c for C1 and x, y, and z for C2. On a certain night you go to a certain spot (probably high ground) and watch C1 as it moves through the sky. At certain times you note the azimuth of C1a, C1b, and C1c, giving you three degree values. Then taking a map you mark your position and draw three lines outward from the spot, each having a bearing that matches one of the azimuth values. The lines have predetermined lengths and each one is different. You mark the places where the lines end, leaving you with a triangle. Now apparently the triangular pattern produced is identical to to that of three prominent stars in another constellation, C2x, C2y, and C2z as we defined earlier. So we simply overlay an image of C2 onto the map we've made and match the three spots we've marked to C2x, C2y, and C2z. The result is that the other stars in C2 will fall on various locations in Warrington, and each of those locations is a spot where one of the treasures is buried. I'm just using C1 and C2 as an example, the actual constellations used might require more than three stars worth of data. Also because constellations rise at the same time each year on the same day, we would be forced to watch the stars on the same evening my neighbor's grandfather did years ago when he developed the second set of clues. Not to mention we need to know which two constellations are used, the number and names of the stars used, the spot from which they are observed, and the three distances of the lines we draw (and their corresponding stars). It sounds complicated but given that the grandfather chose both constellations himself he probably had great latitude to bury the treasures wherever he wished, because if the star pattern didn't fit where he planned to bury valuables he could change constellations, change the time at which they should be observed, etc., thereby adjusting the locations of the caches. So now we just need the data. My neighbor is going through his grandfather's papers for more information, and apparently there are still some storage units in the area containing property of his that was never inventoried. My neighbor also brought another clue to light. There is a saying of his grandfather's written in one of the papers alongside some numbers that reads "the stars water the tree". He believes this means, and he's made a pretty convincing argument to me I think, that this is another constellation reference, specifically concerning the Big Dipper or Plough or Ladle or whatever you want to call it. His idea is that on a certain evening at a certain time from a certain spot the Big Dipper can be observed above the area where the Lion's Tree is hidden, hence the stars "watering the tree" which I suppose is a reference to the constellation pouring down water over the clue tree. My neighbor says when he was younger that his grandfather would often stargaze from a certain spot near Neshaminy Creek which when dammed created the Bradford Reservoir. After the damming he apparently watched the stars from the dam itself. He suspects that if one were to determine the proper date and time and watch the Big Dipper from atop the dam, it would move over the area where the Lion's Tree is hidden. This is in keeping with his original suspicion that the tree is close to the Reservoir, otherwise the constellation would mark a line of infinite distance between the observer and the horizon upon which the tree could be anywhere located. Thus my neighbor thinks that under these conditions the Big Dipper will point to an area immediately ahead where the tree can be found. No word though on whether this spot is the same spot from which the other unnamed constellation must be observed in order to plot the locations of all the buried treasures. But I think that's enough complex exchange between my neighbor and I for one day. Hopefully I described it all in a way that makes sense, let me know if I need to reiterate anything. It's become apparent to me that we did not do the hunt justice publishing the few clues we had, when so many others went unnoticed, though they've had the added effect of greatly complicating matters. MinerGirl why don't you run this by your astrophysicist friends and see what they come up with?

Thanks again to everyone for your interest. Let us know what you find, lorddean13! And good luck.

[SEPaMan]

One thing I forgot to emotion. I've been told the numbers written next to the "Big Dipper clue" might be the location where one must observe the constellation, as well as the proper date and time. Once I get a copy we can all take a crack at it!

[SEPaMan]

Sorry to hear it lorddean13, it seemed like you were making some good progress, and it was fun to follow your posts. So were you at Nike Park or not? Maybe I'm just not a suspicious person but I don't see what the big deal is with mailing & posting on behalf of my friend, he's elderly and can't use a computer, asked for help, and offered to compensate me for my time. I'm sure any one of you would have done the same. As for the "new" information, it's not really new per se, it's just a shortcut the grandfather used that wasn't considered, and in case you didn't register the complexity of the star map it's completely useless without the measurements. I only mentioned it because it came up as a possible alternative method. However it would be a shame in a treasure hunt (or any investigation for that matter) to disregard information simply because it's new, ever hear of a "new lead" in a police case? Good luck with your "BS meter" though, I'm surprised anyone who hunts treasure even has one, considering the amount of time spent chasing down stories and rumors with what amounts to little chance of success! You think it would be ringing from dawn to dusk! I thought the point was the thrill of the hunt? At least that's what everyone around here says in their posts, maybe it's not the case. Anyway keep checking up on the thread, I'll be here to help, I'm thinking of trying the Big Dipper thing but the double constellation map seems too complicated at the moment, without more information anyway. Thanks for you interest lorddean13.

[releventchair]

SEPaMAN,welcome to the fickle world of treasure hunting. No two alike it would seem.
A common denominator though could be the more leads one follows,the more one only wants to follow only solid leads. Most have frail ones on back burner. Hunting often personal so a well published one less attractive too. Just my opinion. Were i bored s.w. Penn. Native lions would be researched. An historical reference to a incident or legend. Fish and game dept.perhaps?..

[MinerGirl]

Hi..

[MinerGirl]

great...

[flyadive]

WOW.....you guys are going way to fast for me.
Saturday morning I took a flight over the resourvor from NJ to get a birds eye view. The thing that caught my eye was the 3 designs that looks like half moon windows. You can find them on Google Earth just north west of the resourvor
Soooooo that looks like the lions tree to me. I'm about an hours + - drive from there so if you need help on site ...let me know.
ps. Please keep it short and to the point

[MinerGirl]

flyadive,

[flyadive]

Have you looked on google earth? Is what I'm seeing a museum or park of some kind?

[flyadive]

County line rd , Bradford green dr, mockingbird way and turn into driveway to the right. Looks like fairmount ave may be where the iron in ground may be?? Quarry?

[releventchair]

Lion's tree. Sorry. Is that plural or singular ? ,i,ve been viewing it as singular possessive. Does iron in ground have to be stake or post. Could it be red earth,clay,or mineral in rock(s)?.

[flyadive]

Lion's tree. Sorry. Is that plural or singular ? ,i,ve been viewing it as singular possessive. Does iron in ground have to be stake or post. Could it be red earth,clay,or mineral in rock(s)?.

Start @ beginning of thread and follow along.
It's difficult I know

[MinerGirl]

hi...

[flyadive]

This was the only photo I took because camera stopped working. Top center of photo is some kind of park I think (lion's tree?)The water is green from algae.Anyway maybe someone could sum up everything they know in a nutshell for us people who have a hard time following.
I'm one of them.

[releventchair]

Flyadive,i have. Iron in ground, means iron in ground to me. Lion's tree , pardon my not being an english major or remembering all my schooling many years ago.just wanting to know what to look for but go ahead carry on i,ll get out of your way.

[flyadive]

Sorry relaventchair didn't mean to offend anyone

[dogpound]

i'm still tryin to figure out why someone would pay someone to post a story about a buried cashe with the clues on a couple different websites and also tell the historical society.......if ya had all this info wouldn't ya just keep this info under your hat and wrangle up a couple hunters ta look for this yourself if it was so valuable? now that the whole internet knows about this tale you'd never know if it was found or not, no respectable hunter would kiss and tell if they did find it. sounds like a big easter egg hunt with a bag of pulltabs at the end of the tunnel