counterfeit sealed boxes of U.S. silver American Eagles.

jeff of pa

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there were at least two instances discovered thus far where depositories distributed customer Precious Metals IRA boxes of silver Eagles that turned out to contain junk instead of the supposed coins.
In another instance a customer had purchased and put into storage 20,000 1996-dated silver Eagles in sealed U.S. Mint boxes. When it later turned out that 1996 was the low mintage year for silver Eagles, these coins began to trade for double and even triple the value of their silver content. When the customer withdrew the coins to sell them, he received 20,000 current year silver Eagles instead. Apparently, this matter is now in litigation.

Another area of concern is the growing number of counterfeit gold bars of sizes 10 ounces and larger.a crook seeking to bury a customer in counterfeit gold and silver would prefer to sell it to a buyer putting the merchandise into a Precious Metals IRA. The reason for this is that the customer would never have the opportunity to inspect the inventory at time of purchase and the storage facility does not necessarily have the liability of detecting counterfeits it receives to store for such accounts. So long as the storage company returns the exact same items it received for storage on behalf of the customer, which could be years or decades down the road, the depositories claim they have fulfilled all of their legal obligations.

Take this with a grain of salt as the person telling these stories is promoting the use of his own depository. But it pays to be careful

Is Your Stored IRA Gold Genuine?
 

jim4silver

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Glad to read the article and see nobody was making actual counterfeit coins. The primary reason I spend extra for silver eagles is that someday when silver is 75 or 100 or whatever there will be tons of counterfeit silver coins of all stripes floating around but I believe having tubes of Eagles will be worth the extra 2 bucks or so per coin I pay now over generics.

I don't want to blame the victim here, but anyone who would trust any custodian other than themselves or perhaps trusted family (or at the worst a safe deposit box when living conditions dictate) is asking for trouble.

Just my opinion.

Jim
 

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Marchas45

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Store It? No Way. You don't Own it unless you Hold It. Keep Stacking
 

TreasurePirate69

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I have often considered buying sealed monster boxes. But I know that there would be no way I could own one and not end up opening it up to see all of those pretty coins. The temptation would just be too great and I am a weak man. There are few things in life more satisfying than looking at huge stacks of silver coins piled up in front of you. :icon_thumleft:
 

Marchas45

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I have often considered buying sealed monster boxes. But I know that there would be no way I could own one and not end up opening it up to see all of those pretty coins. The temptation would just be too great and I am a weak man. There are few things in life more satisfying than looking at huge stacks of silver coins piled up in front of you. :icon_thumleft:

I'm with you Jim, I would need to look, as Silver is so pretty. I have a client that drives around with a sealed box in his truck, no kidding, it means nothing to him Lol
 

Jason in Enid

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Just like Marchas45 said, if you don't hold, you don't own it.
 

jim4silver

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Just like Marchas45 said, if you don't hold, you don't own it.


This is generally true, but remember just because you have your PM's in a safe in your house doesn't mean they are 100% safe, especially if your safe is rated less than T-30 or so. It is actually not uncommon to have valuables taken from such a set up by druggie/delinquent children, angry/soon to leave spouses, a crackhead burglar with a sledge hammer or blowtorch, etc.

I believe the anti safe deposit box folks just regurgitate what they read on PM blogs for the most part. I used to spout the same things till I realized that there is no hard evidence the feds made people open their SDB's in front of agents (back in 1933) before items could be removed, or some claim like that which is often stated on PM blogs to scare people from SDB's. I think a SDB should be a last choice, but that is only if a person has enough sense to properly stash their stuff at home so it doesn't get taken. A small crap office supply store type safe really is just like a flashing neon sign to a crook (family or stranger), that shouts "here I am, take me".

Just my opinion.

Jim
 

Marchas45

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This is generally true, but remember just because you have your PM's in a safe in your house doesn't mean they are 100% safe, especially if your safe is rated less than T-30 or so. It is actually not uncommon to have valuables taken from such a set up by druggie/delinquent children, angry/soon to leave spouses, a crackhead burglar with a sledge hammer or blowtorch, etc.

I believe the anti safe deposit box folks just regurgitate what they read on PM blogs for the most part. I used to spout the same things till I realized that there is no hard evidence the feds made people open their SDB's in front of agents (back in 1933) before items could be removed, or some claim like that which is often stated on PM blogs to scare people from SDB's. I think a SDB should be a last choice, but that is only if a person has enough sense to properly stash their stuff at home so it doesn't get taken. A small crap office supply store type safe really is just like a flashing neon sign to a crook (family or stranger), that shouts "here I am, take me".

Just my opinion.

Jim

LMAO When I say I'm under water with my PM's I literally mean it. I don't need a safe. Lol

 

TreasurePirate69

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This is generally true, but remember just because you have your PM's in a safe in your house doesn't mean they are 100% safe, especially if your safe is rated less than T-30 or so. It is actually not uncommon to have valuables taken from such a set up by druggie/delinquent children, angry/soon to leave spouses, a crackhead burglar with a sledge hammer or blowtorch, etc.

I believe the anti safe deposit box folks just regurgitate what they read on PM blogs for the most part. I used to spout the same things till I realized that there is no hard evidence the feds made people open their SDB's in front of agents (back in 1933) before items could be removed, or some claim like that which is often stated on PM blogs to scare people from SDB's. I think a SDB should be a last choice, but that is only if a person has enough sense to properly stash their stuff at home so it doesn't get taken. A small crap office supply store type safe really is just like a flashing neon sign to a crook (family or stranger), that shouts "here I am, take me".

Just my opinion.

Jim

I agree. The only thing we probably differ on is that I don't see a SDB as a "last choice". I see it as just another means of diversifying. I keep about 1/5 of my PM's in a SDB. If my home blows away I still want to have something. And if I lose everything in my SDB it won't kill me. Even at home I diversify. I have about 4 different hiding places. Some in safes, some hidden in places you'd never think to look (or maybe you would). I think the worst thing anyone could do is put their entire stash in one place. Especially in a cheap office safe right out in the open. As Jim says, if you are going to do that then you are basically putting up a neon sign that says: "here are all of my valuables, come take them". :)

There is also the common notion that if you don't hold it you don't own it. Although this is true to an extent, there can be times when it makes sense to store some PM's offsite at a secured facility. This is not an issue for me because my PM holdings are not that sizable. But if someone owned a few million in PM's (like Marchas probably does) then they would be foolish to store it all on their own property. As part of a proper diversification strategy it probably would make sense to store a portion in a secured vault offsite. How big that portion is depends on what they are willing to lose. You should always assume that you could lose anything that you own whether you are the one holding it or not. With that said, there are major differences between how these storage companies work. Whether or not they are holding "paper shares" vs your exact coins make a big difference. I would never own "paper shares" that represent physical gold unless I was doing short term investing in something like GLD. I personally would only use a storage facility that was contractually required to hand me back the exact coins I handed them in the first place. Basically, this is just a larger or more glorified SDB option.

All just my opinion.
 

TreasurePirate69

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As a follow up, I'm sure that we probably have some coin dealers here. I've often wondered what they do with their inventories. I've talked to guys at coin shows who hint about keeping them at a storage facility. But I never feel comfortable about asking for details because they might get suspicious that I was looking to rob them. If anyone has any info on this I'd be interested in hearing it.
 

jim4silver

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As a follow up, I'm sure that we probably have some coin dealers here. I've often wondered what they do with their inventories. I've talked to guys at coin shows who hint about keeping them at a storage facility. But I never feel comfortable about asking for details because they might get suspicious that I was looking to rob them. If anyone has any info on this I'd be interested in hearing it.


As far as the "contractually liable" part, you have to be careful with that because we all know that bankruptcy can relieve the institution of its duties possibly. The reason I call the SDB the last "good" option is that you are still at the mercy of the bank should there ever be a shut down of some kind. I think at least right now that risk is not great, but next month or next year who knows? I keep much of my PMs in a SDB because I rent my place and cannot properly set up a secure enough "safe". If I owned a home I would find a way to secure my stuff there.

I know two large local coin dealers here well and have seen both of their "store rooms", which basically have a few large, professional styled safes (T-45 to T60) plus high quality burglar alarms in the place. Basically nobody is going to get away with their stuff unless it is the gov itself someday. But from what I have been told, sometimes they don't want too much inventory on hand because they can get caught in a quick price drop scenario and lose $$$$. I was talking to one of my local coin dealers the other day and he said a customer ordered over 500 GAEs. He basically made a call to the national distributor and completed the sale. He didn't need to have said inventory on hand but instead will have it shipped in after the buyer pays up. By the way, don't know if he was telling the truth but he says on that large gold order he "only" makes $10-$12 per coin (not bad on 500 coins purchased at once).

Just my opinion.

Jim
 

Jason in Enid

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My problem with SDB isn't just limited to accessing my stuff when the bank is closed, it's what happens to my stuff when I die. Bank IMMEDIATELY seize SDB as soon as they learn of the holders death. No one can touch it until a court order declares who the new owner is. If your family hasn't cleared it out by before then, it could be a very long time before they ever get it. And pray there isn't a thief working in the bank who can pilfer the contents during that waiting game.
 

jim4silver

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My problem with SDB isn't just limited to accessing my stuff when the bank is closed, it's what happens to my stuff when I die. Bank IMMEDIATELY seize SDB as soon as they learn of the holders death. No one can touch it until a court order declares who the new owner is. If your family hasn't cleared it out by before then, it could be a very long time before they ever get it. And pray there isn't a thief working in the bank who can pilfer the contents during that waiting game.

You are right, but unfortunately every form of storage has its own drawbacks. The key is to find the best for you under the circumstances. At least up to this point though, the odds of getting ripped off in some manner has been far greater having your stuff at home vs. in a safe deposit box wherein you paid the fees on time, etc. I know there are some limited horror stories of banks for some reason selling off the contents of someone's box even though they were paid up to date and such, but in those cases it is clear the bank acted negligently and you would have a better time of collecting back from them than from some burglar who gets caught and has already pawned your stuff and spent the money somehow.

Having said that, as each day goes on I feel less comfortable keeping my PMs in my SDB due to the whole world financial situation, etc. But for now it is my best option.

One irony is that most of the people who say SDB's are bad keep virtually all of their "money" wealth in a bank/financial institution in some manner or another, and feel OK because of the few billion $$$$$ worth of FDIC insurance that is covering trillions of $$$$$$ in deposits, yet these folks won't put their PM stash in a locked bank vault that technically only they can open (assuming they are still alive and there aren't any court orders seizing the box). That makes no sense to me. Sort of like vegetarians (for moral reasons) who wear leather.

I have known individuals who have had their property stolen by an angry significant other or thieving relative and taken from the home "safe" when said owner was not there (usually cash and jewelry and not PM's but the same principle applies) . The other person could even get a locksmith to come to the house to open it if the combination was not known to them and they had access to the home if you were going to be gone a day or two.

Just my opinion.

Jim
 

Marchas45

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Having said that, as each day goes on I feel less comfortable keeping my PMs in my SDB due to the whole world financial situation, etc. But for now it is my best option.

Well hell Jim you can send it to me and I will take care off it for you, Free of Charge. Lol As for the SDB I had one and it was one of the bigger ones and it was getting to heavy to carry. Lol So I gave it up. Lol

But if someone owned a few million in PM's (like Marchas probably does) then they would be foolish to store it all on their own property.

Not if you see the size of my property. LMAO
 

Jason in Enid

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It's very hard for someone to steal my PMs. Nobody but me knows where it's buried, and the map is encrypted.
 

Jason in Enid

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aye matie, but now everyone knows it's buried and there's a map which leads to treasure

Good, I'm glad they know. At least they won't be demolishing my house trying to find something not hidden there. I know you pirates are planning on trying to steal my booty!
 

Jason in Enid

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So when you die.......????

Hopefully he has cashed it in & spent it by then.

Pm's sitting Dormant are like rocks along the highway.
in the way :laughing7:

Nope, if I haven't spent them, my heirs get them. THEY know the encryption method and how to find them. I'm only keeping them safe from thieves and governments. wait, that was redundant.
 

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