Good Time to Buy PM's?

[fistfulladirt]

I hope everyone bought on the dip.

 

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[jim4silver]

Silver chart looks either really good (now) or really bad (later on)? The "good" is easy to see in the uptrend. But the possible "bad" later on is if we are forming a head and shoulders (bearish pattern), but way too early to know right now. If it is a H and S forming, silver would probably drop below $14 before it stops dropping.

On the other hand maybe silver is finally going to start moving up again? I would like to see it get into the $17s again in near to mid term to believe the bull market is possibly back.

http://schrts.co/mHyJ2m


Here is the weekly chart for perspective.

PS Look at the wedge pattern (triangle pointing to the right) that broke down around June 2018. When patterns form on longer term charts like a weekly chart like this and break up or down it's a good bet that is where the trend will go. Wish I had seen that back in July or August and bought some put options.


http://schrts.co/Pya5Ni


Here is a weekly dollar chart for comparison. Looks like a possible H and S forming, getting ready finish the right side of the "head" and then build the right shoulder? If it is a dollar H and S, that would be mean a good chance for a decent drop of the dollar since this is a longer term chart. If that happens to the dollar, it would be good for gold and silver.

http://schrts.co/d8oZG8

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Gerald Celente always says, "If you want to see where the markets are going, watch copper."
I know its not a PM but just for conversation sake. I was thinking about that today and looking at some charts.
I've been keeping all my coppers and also nickels for a few years for melt value, not really sure why. A huge tub hardly adds up to very much money and its money that may better be served buying silver anyway.
I've never thought about it but maybe I should just cash it in get a few silver rounds instead of all that copper? What's anyones thoughts?

Copper prices greatly rely on the strength of the housing market and it may never be higher than it's been already anyway during the height of the bubble.
I dont know how many copper cents it would take to make a melt worth the $$ but I'm guessing that I'd need much much more than what I've tossed aside.
If a melt was authorized and the refiners were overrun with copper pennies would it be worth it to even do that in reality?

On one hand I could keep the copper, the economy and the housing market flourishes and copper goes up with demand and building maybe doubling or tripling (a copper hoarders dream?), then a melt is authorized (it's still just copper), and I could double or triple my money.... Then buy silver when it's cheap cuz it's usually cheaper when times are "good" and "flourishing".

Or

Trade the copper back for face value now for a few rounds of silver.

I'm not sure what's next for PMS and all the YouTube dudes have varying opinions but Id dang near bet that silver will double before copper will.

In a perfect world I might keep both but it's a storage issue at this point, plus if silver goes up and copper tanks I'll regret it! Gotta take advantage even if it's just a few ounces haha. It all adds up and I want to make it all count for something ya know?
I'm thinking the copper needs to go. I keep my wheats seperate and I'd keep those for fun. I also would need to search the nickels for silver. Could be a war nickel in there!

The more I stare at this copper the more stupid it seems to be keeping it. Seems like a mistake no matter how I look at it.

 

[fistfulladirt]

I have dozens of copper Zombucks, including all the proofs.

 

[jim4silver]

Gerald Celente always says, "If you want to see where the markets are going, watch copper."
I've never thought about it but maybe I should just cash it in get a few silver rounds instead of all that copper? What's anyones thoughts?

It's good that you put away the coins, it's like savings. If you want silver then it would not be a bad idea to cash in your non PM coins to buy some.

It is still illegal in the US to melt or export (over a nominal $ amount) pennies and nickels, so down the road if the price of those metals goes up it would take a new law to undue the old one before you could legally melt or export them.

Jim

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Yeah it's not worth the space it's taking up and it needs to go I think. Realistically unless there was a copper shortage there probably wont be a melt and theres plenty of copper out there. Im not planning on that to happen.
Copper scrap pays enough at the local salvage yards and most is probably recycled. Its plentiful but worth some money in quantity for sure.
Unlike beer cans I see that no one cares to pick up, copper doesn't sit for long.

I remember aluminum cans to be worth enough money that we'd save and collect bags and bags full and the money would actually buy a kid some stuff.
Not sure how that is for kids these days but I remember the day they figured out we were stuffing the cans with gravel before we crushed them. We got screamed at and they only paid us a small amount for doing that. Said it would mess up their machines too. We didn't try that again. I thought they would beat us to be honest and we deserved it.

 

[fistfulladirt]

Yeah it's not worth the space it's taking up and it needs to go I think. Realistically unless there was a copper shortage there probably wont be a melt and theres plenty of copper out there. Im not planning on that to happen.
Copper scrap pays enough at the local salvage yards and most is probably recycled. Its plentiful but worth some money in quantity for sure.
Unlike beer cans I see that no one cares to pick up, copper doesn't sit for long.

I remember aluminum cans to be worth enough money that we'd save and collect bags and bags full and the money would actually buy a kid some stuff.
Not sure how that is for kids these days but I remember the day they figured out we were stuffing the cans with gravel before we crushed them. We got screamed at and they only paid us a small amount for doing that. Said it would mess up their machines too. We didn't try that again. I thought they would beat us to be honest and we deserved it.

Ha ha! Oh yeah, some of my earliest memories making money include the day my old man told my brother and I there was money in scrap! We were about 10 and 12, we scoured the country road leading to the store and bagged pounds of aluminum cans. Good kid money, this would’ve been in the early 70’s.

We really cleaned later, up when our state made cans cans and bottle returnable at 10 cents each.

Our best copper haul was when our high school put new gutters on the building. The old ones were heavy copper!
We had permission to scrap it, couple hundred pounds!

 

[Diver_Down]

RE: Copper Cents
If you are ever inclined to look through them, there are quite a few collector varieties. However, if it isn't a Top 5 or 10 variety, it likely won't be worth your time. Most copper hoarders aren't interested in the collector aspect. They just rationalize that the copper cent saved is worth more than the face value. Selling on craigslist/offer up/ etc. would yield the highest return as there are no fees, but the quickest sale would be eBay. I've been sitting on bricks of copper cents and was tempted to sell last year (Dec 2018 it was $2.8/lb). It has since dipped to $2.6/lb, and I feel like I missed the window. But at this point, I'm tired of looking at them and just want them gone.

RE: Aluminum Cans
The local scrap yards pay different rates depending on if it is crushed or not. I guess there are enough that might pack dirt in and crush them that they buy at a much lower rate to compensate for the shysters. I used to save the cans and sell them. I would go around on recycling days and bag up the cans that people put on the curb. But the one trip to the yard, I got a shard of metal in my tire negating any sale of cans for months as I had to pay to replace the tire. That was the end of that. Not worth the time to accumulate enough to offset the risk of damage to my tires.

 

[Walleyeman]

Since "Janet" gave her speech yesterday, the market seemed to bounce down and back up....

Is this a good time to buy gold at $35 over current market value? Found some Rolex ladies watch movements and might want to Ebay them for a profit toward gold and silver.

Thanks for your opinion,
Bill

SELL SELL SELL your stocks...This was the last 2 years Obama's economy that we could enjoy, now the Trump policies is what we will get from here until whenever.....BUY BUY BUY gold!

 

[jim4silver]

SELL SELL SELL your stocks...This was the last 2 years Obama's economy that we could enjoy, now the Trump policies is what we will get from here until whenever.....BUY BUY BUY gold!

I would say it was not anyone's economy, but instead due to the QE by the Fed and them artificially keeping interest rates at near zero for many years. This incentivized large institutions, companies, etc, to borrow really cheap money and play it in the stock market or to buy back their own shares.

If you watch the daily news and stock movements, any time there is talk or action on bringing interest rates to even low normal levels, the market drops like a rock. Kind of like back half a decade ago or so when the market price would go up every time more QE was announced, or that removing QE was going to be delayed.

I feel there will be many sad stock holders in the next couple of years (they should be sad now if they didn't sell any at 26900 dow) when the index is back under 20,000, then lower, etc. UNLESS of course the Fed stops raising interest rates and again keeps them at ridiculously low levels, or if the Fed has to do QE again. Then the money Kool Aid will keep the stock casino going up again.

People who say our economy is strong never mention our national debt is at 22 Trillion and growing. Kind of like a person with unlimited credit cards to use each holding massive amounts of debt, and who keeps spending on them and thinks he has money or is in good financial shape. If interest rates ever did normalize the US could not pay off the interest on the debt, not without creating more debt to pay the old debt. Kind of like using credit cards to pay off other credit cards.

It's not just the US, but China and other nations too are going to see big financial issues coming down the road.

Jim

 

[Swaveab]

Very interesting thread you guys got going on here. I never had big money to invest in much of this stuff, but I do have a bit of silver of numis value as well as some junk silver. Carry on and I'll keep reading and maybe learn a thing or 2.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Yeah it would be easy to blame our politicians but fact is they dont decide monetary policy any more than the kid working at McDonalds decides the prices on the menu. They are only the salesmen for the policy.
The faces change every few years but the monetary policies never change and that's the fiat money disease we have now.
Money has had the same rules for 5000 years and thousands of failed fiat currencies have come and gone with one thing in common....they always fail and ours wont be any different. The question is when and its anyone's guess....and how to best prepare for it so we aren't feeding our kids our pets or zoo animals like in Venezuela.

I'm not trying to place blame because in reality we are all to blame for our fiat money disease but no one wants a bite of that $h1t sandwich Haha. It's a nasty aftertaste but not as bad as zoo animals maybe.
If we can agree on the basics about money then theres no politics involved. We know that they dont make money policy and we can still vote for our favorite salesmen and all remain friends!
I like that about this topic because it doesn't involve FEELINGS or politics.
If I want to debate abortion or the wall or gun rights I'll go to the political chat but i feel like all that stuff is just drama to keep our little brains occupied while the real deals are going down in the backroom by PEOPLE WE NEVER ELECTED. Who was that that said "I care not who makes a nation's laws as long as I control the money."
Like I said I enjoy these more intellectual talks rather than picking sides and making teams. Fighting amongst the ranks is never a good thing and bad for morale and we'd be better off using that energy to go buy some silver....or save it for football season haha.

The PMS still making a slow creep and a wide silver to gold ratio. 82:1 or close to that? I wonder if it will close to 30:1 or less like some say eventually?
I read the mining numbers for silver to gold recovery are 7:1 now. Seven ounces of silver per ounce of gold. Another report stated how gold is almost ALL recycled and very little silver is, and the above ground holdings actually put silver to gold at 1:6, as in 6 times MORE above ground reserves of GOLD than silver which puts everything on its head.
More silver used in industry is used up and not recovered than is being pulled out of the ground and one report stated that future silver mining might take place in old dumps, to recover what has been thrown away over the years. I dont know how much truth there could be to that or if it was just some envirowhacko stuff.
I wonder what silver would have to be at to make that cost effective? Haha Quite a few thousand I would bet!

 

[jim4silver]

Yeah it would be easy to blame our politicians but fact is they dont decide monetary policy any more than the kid working at McDonalds decides the prices on the menu. They are only the salesmen for the policy.
The faces change every few years but the monetary policies never change and that's the fiat money disease we have now.
Money has had the same rules for 5000 years and thousands of failed fiat currencies have come and gone with one thing in common....they always fail and ours wont be any different. The question is when and its anyone's guess....and how to best prepare for it so we aren't feeding our kids our pets or zoo animals like in Venezuela.

I'm not trying to place blame because in reality we are all to blame for our fiat money disease but no one wants a bite of that $h1t sandwich Haha. It's a nasty aftertaste but not as bad as zoo animals maybe.
If we can agree on the basics about money then theres no politics involved. We know that they dont make money policy and we can still vote for our favorite salesmen and all remain friends!
I like that about this topic because it doesn't involve FEELINGS or politics.
If I want to debate abortion or the wall or gun rights I'll go to the political chat but i feel like all that stuff is just drama to keep our little brains occupied while the real deals are going down in the backroom by PEOPLE WE NEVER ELECTED. Who was that that said "I care not who makes a nation's laws as long as I control the money."
Like I said I enjoy these more intellectual talks rather than picking sides and making teams. Fighting amongst the ranks is never a good thing and bad for morale and we'd be better off using that energy to go buy some silver....or save it for football season haha.

The PMS still making a slow creep and a wide silver to gold ratio. 82:1 or close to that? I wonder if it will close to 30:1 or less like some say eventually?
I read the mining numbers for silver to gold recovery are 7:1 now. Seven ounces of silver per ounce of gold. Another report stated how gold is almost ALL recycled and very little silver is, and the above ground holdings actually put silver to gold at 1:6, as in 6 times MORE above ground reserves of GOLD than silver which puts everything on its head.
More silver used in industry is used up and not recovered than is being pulled out of the ground and one report stated that future silver mining might take place in old dumps, to recover what has been thrown away over the years. I dont know how much truth there could be to that or if it was just some envirowhacko stuff.
I wonder what silver would have to be at to make that cost effective? Haha Quite a few thousand I would bet!

At some point in the future there will have to be some type of giant default or debt jubilee with govs like the US and others. There is no way the US debt can ever be repaid (right now close to $22T). As interest rates normalize the US gov will have trouble paying just the interest on the debt. The debt grows at over $1T per year, so by the next prez election we will be near $25T I would guess.

With all the debt, credit and fiat floating around, it seems like everything is built on a house of cards. I will leave you with a quatrain from Nostradamus in the 1500s that I find interesting. It could be said to apply to the modern financial markets (the copies of gold and silver... I love that!).


From Century 8, quatrain 28:


Les simulacres d'or & argent enflez,
Qu'apres le rapt au lac furent gettez
Au desouvert estaincts tous & troublez.
Au marbre script prescript intergetez.

The copies of gold and silver inflated,
which after the theft were thrown into the lake,
at the discovery that all is exhausted and dissipated
by the debt.
All scrips and bonds will be wiped out.

 

[RTR]

Gold prices for the last 200 years Gold prices for 200 years

 

[A2coins]

Great post very informative I buy silver bars hope some day my kids can benifit

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Yep that chart tells it all. Notice 1933 after the gold confiscation and 1970 when we went full on fiat and debt based money. Now a clad quarter melts at almost no value and gold is $1200 plus.
That seems healthy!

 

[fistfulladirt]

Yep that chart tells it all. Notice 1933 after the gold confiscation and 1970 when we went full on fiat and debt based money. Now a clad quarter melts at almost no value and gold is $1200 plus.
That seems healthy!

Tell me about the gold confiscation. Was it door to door?

 

[Johnnybravo300]

No, wasnt forced except by law and they were paid for the gold, just was called a confiscation in its purpose. Not door to door or anything like that.
They ASKED for the gold back by issuing threats you could say, then deflated the currency by 40 percent once they had the gold.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

I consider it a confiscation just because it was forced by law and made illegal to own besides a small amount, and purchasing power was stolen.
It was maybe more of a forced "transfer of wealth" than anything else. Confiscation seems fitting tho.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

I'm not saying anything you dont already know haha.