goldog's fluid head blog.

SRP_KBell

Full Member
Apr 4, 2017
105
139
Galt, CA
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Goldog — You are exactly correct in several points. Both trap depth and weight of material creates limits on the effectiveness of fluidization. Yes the force of the stream is quite limited and the differential in height (mere inches) does not add any measurable change.

I have to correct you on one point — Adding a diverter strip actually hurts the system. What you have done by adding a diverter is reduce the orifice size which increases the water velocity. Adding a large diverter just increases the problem.

The answer to your question “where does the fine gold go?” has two sides.

First, there is an ever increasing velocity in a sluice with your shape because you are continually decreasing the sluice width dimension (narrower). Stream velocity of 1 ft/sec (which are fairly normal conditions) can easily suspend and move a 30 mesh piece of gold not even taking into account water viscosity (i.e. muddy or highly mineralized water) or material in flow. If you are not doing anything to slow the water/particle velocity it just goes out the other end of the sluice. Yes particle shape also has an effect.

Second, having a trap that operates at full capacity doesn’t leave anywhere for the incoming material to drop. A full trap creates a “flow-through” characteristic — It is easier for the material to just continue on its straight course. Gold in the incoming material that hits the trap bed early has a high probability of being captured and retained. Gold pushed further into the trap bed and closer to the trap exit is much less likely to be captured. This is not gold particle size specific. Again unaltered water/material velocity doesn’t help.

For reference, here is how I came up with 30 mesh:

particle_water.jpg

.25 cm rock particle = 2.5mm
1 foot / second = 30.48 centimeters / second

Set rock particle density at 2. Non-Pure gold set at 9 times more dense
2.5 mm / 9 = ~ .277 mm or about 25-30 mesh if velocity is not reduced.
 

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goldog

goldog

Hero Member
Sep 25, 2012
923
987
Tujunga, CA
Detector(s) used
Bazooka Gold Trap, A-51, Gold Pan
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Thanks for the input! You could have a point in some respect about the diverter. Results from my Bazooka were pretty good so I'll use that as a base. In any sluice velocity is a balance. Enough to clear lighter material but not so much to wash out the heavies.

It's not "ever increasing" velocity. Just down to the end width. It's needed to take away what I don't want. The latest version has very little effect on the size of the opening. Even the original (or 1/2" mod) has only a small effect in regards to size. The underside of the top deck is not necessarily full of water to begin with. Also, The strips are a soft barrier so there is "give". We're always dealing with trade offs. The sum total of these effects is what's important.

Same with the displacement wave. The trap remains at a level which is dependent on the water in the box. Both through the tubes as well as the grizzly. As long as there is fluidization some material will exit. Whatever downdraft induced by the diverter will aid this as well as coax the heavies to the bottom.

I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at with the chart. As an overall percentage I'm hoping to loose as little as possible. Maybe10-15%. I catch quite a bit of thirty mesh and below. So I'm happy.
 

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goldog

goldog

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Sep 25, 2012
923
987
Tujunga, CA
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Bazooka Gold Trap, A-51, Gold Pan
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The wedge shape. Do we need it?

I believe it's a positive. Fabrication would be simpler if the lines were all straight. So if it's better you can bet I'd jump right in.

The wedge does cause an increase in velocity. But I think it's needed. I'd like some other points of view.
 

SRP_KBell

Full Member
Apr 4, 2017
105
139
Galt, CA
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Goldog -

Just to clarify - I am not saying a Bazooka, A52 or any other sluice doesn't catch some 30 mesh. I was merely stating that at 1ft/sec water can suspend and move 30 mesh and unless something happens to slow down the velocity it will continue in flow.

There are three basic parts to sluices, plenums and orifices (i.e. the entrance to your trap) water volume , capacity or size of opening (of the sluice, plenum or orifice) and water speed. If you reduce the size and the water volume coming in stays the same velocity increases. It doesn't matter if you're talking about sluice profile, orifice dimension or capacity.

Your question was about fine gold - When you are trying to capture smaller particles velocity must decrease or some opposite or other stronger force must act on the particle. When I was saying a gold particle touches down in the front of the trap it is bouncing along with the other particles and is slowing down. In most cases it will find a place to "dive in". If it touches down further into the trap it may not have enough time to slow down and be caught.

Realize that with the Bazooka's 4 to 5 inch trap width at 1ft/sec water input the material passes through in 33/100s to 42/100s of a second.

Contrast this with an A52's 33 inch length where the same material has 2.75 seconds to be captured.

Velocity isn't your friend when it comes to fine gold.
 

KevinInColorado

Gold Member
Jan 9, 2012
7,037
11,370
Summit County, Colorado
Detector(s) used
Grizzly Goldtrap Explorer & Motherlode, Gold Cube with trommel or Banker on top, Angus Mackirk Expedition, Gold-n-Sand Xtream Hand pump
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
The wedge shape. Do we need it?

I believe it's a positive. Fabrication would be simpler if the lines were all straight. So if it's better you can bet I'd jump right in.

The wedge does cause an increase in velocity. But I think it's needed. I'd like some other points of view.

Testing shows the wedge shaped trap is a bad idea. It's only wedge shaped on the Bazooka for ease of manufacture. The new Grizzly Goldtrap is manufactured differently and has a wedge shaped slick plate but a rectangular trap. Same story for the AMP sluice as I recall, rectangular again.

Progress!
 

SRP_KBell

Full Member
Apr 4, 2017
105
139
Galt, CA
Primary Interest:
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Kevin is right about the wedge profile, especially in the trap area. It requires an ever increasing opposing force to "grab" the gold out of the material flow and get it into the trap. This is the reason I said the gold has less chance to drop the farther it gets into the trap. Another problem with the wedge style is that the surface area dimension for the gold to settle out decreases as the gold and material travels through the trap. Parallel sides still require the opposing force but at least it is equal throughout the trap and the trap surface area dimension remains the same.

Captain Nemo brought up an interesting point about displacement - "...part of the problem with gold traps and -150 gold. They're too shallow to handle the displacement waves caused by shoveling into them. Keeping a steady flow of material would also minimize the effects of displacement waves". My theory is it is less about displacement and more about disruption of laminar flow

Laminar water flow with a steady full width introduction of material is critical for fine gold recovery. Without diving back into the classify v. direct shovel discussion smooth flow and material input will result in increased recovery of fine gold. If the water flow is choppy and uneven because of larger rocks on the material deck the gold won't be entering the trap smoothly. Now you have water speed and irregular flow that has to be overcome by stronger forces in the trap.

As stated many times before the original Bazooka series was designed for direct shoveling and are beasts at moving material! Unfortunately their design is not optimized for fine gold recovery. This is why I tell people that the "one sluice for all occasions" is impossible.
 

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KevinInColorado

Gold Member
Jan 9, 2012
7,037
11,370
Summit County, Colorado
Detector(s) used
Grizzly Goldtrap Explorer & Motherlode, Gold Cube with trommel or Banker on top, Angus Mackirk Expedition, Gold-n-Sand Xtream Hand pump
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Well said sir!

Any prospector who goes to multiple places to dig will end up with multiple sluices. Use the right tool for the job!
 

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goldog

goldog

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Sep 25, 2012
923
987
Tujunga, CA
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Bazooka Gold Trap, A-51, Gold Pan
Primary Interest:
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Thanks for the input.
Early in my fabrication efforts I had an idea for an hourglass shape. Maybe it would be worth it to revisit. This would more than overcome the increasing velocity issue.
 

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SRP_KBell

Full Member
Apr 4, 2017
105
139
Galt, CA
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
The alluvial type systems have been used in sluices, dredges and highbankers for a long time. The angle of the rear wedge would have to be really wide - not sure about how that would look. Take it from the inventor of the SRP Recon and Expedition - Many people are confused by shapes they are not used to seeing.

Sellable is nearly as important as workable!
 

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goldog

goldog

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Sep 25, 2012
923
987
Tujunga, CA
Detector(s) used
Bazooka Gold Trap, A-51, Gold Pan
Primary Interest:
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Got out for a little excursion with MrGG.

IMG_0275.JPG .

Mostly small stuff but it's adding up. IMG_0279.JPG

IMG_0276.JPG

Tried out a new stretch of stream. Got in, ran the 'zook, and got out before the bear ate us. I'd call that a pretty darn good day. A little gold is just icing on the cake.


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goldog

goldog

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Sep 25, 2012
923
987
Tujunga, CA
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Bazooka Gold Trap, A-51, Gold Pan
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Oops [emoji87] mercury ate our gold. IMG_0001.JPG


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goldog

goldog

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Sep 25, 2012
923
987
Tujunga, CA
Detector(s) used
Bazooka Gold Trap, A-51, Gold Pan
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
It's okay. Breathe... I guess we'll need to watch out for it. There's usually not much free merc here but we found some. I've seen dirty gold but this was a first for me here at the EF. Tiny little bubble.


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goldog

goldog

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Sep 25, 2012
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987
Tujunga, CA
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Bazooka Gold Trap, A-51, Gold Pan
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The more I think about it the more I'm happy about this POI. Prospecting is hard. We could easily have gotten skunked. Even though it's not even a dollar there were 75-100 colors. Before the dingo.

We're just below a bench deposit and there are a lot of possibilities. A camp area just in case and easy access. It was relatively quiet for the area aside from a handful of wannabe greenhorns. (bisoño or Cuerno verde) I felt bad for the band of youngsters when I said pyrite and not oro when asked about their shiny rock.




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goldog

goldog

Hero Member
Sep 25, 2012
923
987
Tujunga, CA
Detector(s) used
Bazooka Gold Trap, A-51, Gold Pan
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Clean. It seems the aliens scrubbed it overnight. IMG_0300.JPG

Oh and the split. Some of the finest stuff didn't quite make it And is in the black sand.

IMG_0304.JPG





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MrGneissGuy

Jr. Member
May 30, 2017
93
59
Los Angeles
Primary Interest:
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Clean. It seems the aliens scrubbed it overnight. View attachment 1478478

Oh and the split. Some of the finest stuff didn't quite make it And is in the black sand.

View attachment 1478486





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Do you remember what happened to those cons I brought? I can't remember for the life of me, I wonder if any of that gold came out of the cons...
 

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goldog

goldog

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Sep 25, 2012
923
987
Tujunga, CA
Detector(s) used
Bazooka Gold Trap, A-51, Gold Pan
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
IMG_0160.JPG I gotta update my blog. [emoji848]

A forum member inquired so I thought I’d post a pick of the family. There’s a few more around but you know how hard it is to get them all together for a picture.

I have stalled on productivity in the shop and field for the last few months.
IMG_0159.JPG

There’s a bit from yesterday. Gotta split it tho. It’s a chunky lil fleck. A fluck. I calculate its worth two cents. So at least one can buyout the other. Jus sayin.

Fun times tho in my current POI. I posted elsewhere about water banking. It’s looking like a lean year for water so ya has to be creative. I determined it’s more of a credit union. The builders/ owners mutually benefit from the labor. If outsiders come we’ll have to charge them.

Just starting a trench operation. I figure if I can follow the bedrock to the old channel(s) it could be good gold. That little two cent piece is, believe it or not, a good indicator. I hope. Ultimately I want to go both south and north along the BR.
 

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goldog

goldog

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Sep 25, 2012
923
987
Tujunga, CA
Detector(s) used
Bazooka Gold Trap, A-51, Gold Pan
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Just a bit more.

IMG_0164.JPG

We haven’t really started digging. At least not in what I’d consider “pay”. Just a couple holes around where the big rocks on top were. I think the good dirt is under 2-3 feet of overburden. It’s turning out there are big boulders throughout. So a lot of rock moving.

The hydro storage project should pay off tomorrow. I added some pipes and raised it a bit more. I’m guessing 15-20,000 gallons is in the reservoir. At least 1 hr if I draw four G/s. We’ll see. Properly managed it should last. I can close the valves between buckets.

As the natural flow slows it will get hard to keep going. But we will see. Praying for rain or better yet some snowpack.
 

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