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  1. #196
    us
    Jan 2019
    Maine
    466
    527 times
    Prospecting
    This is a gold forum, and not about logging, but I wanted to clarify what Long-Hauling is.

    Loggers call it long-hauling though mills call it "zone-jumping", and the courts lump it into "Cargo Theft", just to confuse things more.

    It is pretty simple; trucking is expensive, so papermills pay more money for wood hauled from longer distances away. That mileage is based upon "zones", and so whereas wood coming from nearby would be in zone one, sixty miles away it might come from zone two, or further zone three...etc. If a trucker is trucking wood from woodlots in a farther zone, when asked where the wood on a particular load came from, they just lie and say it came from the farther woodlot. That is long-hauling, or zone-jumping.

    Most of the time it is done by the trucker and logger, with most landowners knowing nothing about it. But it might. Either way, the extra money is split between the trucker/logger or possibly landowner if they are involved.

    Years ago, if a trucker got caught long-hauling, the papermill kicked them out of the mill for six months and that was it. But a few years ago the paper mills started closing, going from dozens of paper mills, to just 6 today. The papermills realized they were spending money on long hauling and went to the state for help, who were eager to help keep the remaining paper mills thriving. So the paper mills now, if they suspect long-hauling, contact the Forest Service who investigates, and then takes it to the local District Attorneys' office.

    They have learned they can lump what is a minor infraction, into "cargo theft" which is a big buzz word now. That is why you hear of "cargo thefts" being on the rise...if it involves a truck, it is cargo theft when that is not really the case. In terms of long-hauling, nothing was stolen, paper mills are just paying more for the wood then they should have. It is theft by deception, not cargo theft; a big difference.

    I have done it, but no longer do. First, I go to church and long-hauling is lying, and just plain wrong. But I am also a certified forest, so any wood coming off my land is carefully tracked, not for long-hauling reasons, but for sustainable reasons. But that leads to a third reason, and that is I am limited how much I can harvest from my land. I can only harvest 1600 cords per year, and while I might get $25 a cord extra for long hauling, it is no longer worth risking my reputation, Christian ethics, or forest certification for a mere $40,000 extra a year, and most years I do not come close to logging that many cords.

    So I knew that Forest Ranger was getting poor information, and had nothing on me because I did nothing wrong, but I do not appreciate a guy being all puffed up and thinking I am going to cower to him because he is a Forest Ranger. I REALLY did not like him trying to get me to talk after telling him 3 times I was not saying anything without an attorney present.

  2. #197
    us
    Aug 2010
    Maine USA
    358
    333 times
    Quote Originally Posted by OreCart View Post
    This is a gold forum, and not about logging, but I wanted to clarify what Long-Hauling is.

    Loggers call it long-hauling though mills call it "zone-jumping", and the courts lump it into "Cargo Theft", just to confuse things more.

    It is pretty simple; trucking is expensive, so papermills pay more money for wood hauled from longer distances away. That mileage is based upon "zones", and so whereas wood coming from nearby would be in zone one, sixty miles away it might come from zone two, or further zone three...etc. If a trucker is trucking wood from woodlots in a farther zone, when asked where the wood on a particular load came from, they just lie and say it came from the farther woodlot. That is long-hauling, or zone-jumping.

    Most of the time it is done by the trucker and logger, with most landowners knowing nothing about it. But it might. Either way, the extra money is split between the trucker/logger or possibly landowner if they are involved.

    Years ago, if a trucker got caught long-hauling, the papermill kicked them out of the mill for six months and that was it. But a few years ago the paper mills started closing, going from dozens of paper mills, to just 6 today. The papermills realized they were spending money on long hauling and went to the state for help, who were eager to help keep the remaining paper mills thriving. So the paper mills now, if they suspect long-hauling, contact the Forest Service who investigates, and then takes it to the local District Attorneys' office.

    They have learned they can lump what is a minor infraction, into "cargo theft" which is a big buzz word now. That is why you hear of "cargo thefts" being on the rise...if it involves a truck, it is cargo theft when that is not really the case. In terms of long-hauling, nothing was stolen, paper mills are just paying more for the wood then they should have. It is theft by deception, not cargo theft; a big difference.

    I have done it, but no longer do. First, I go to church and long-hauling is lying, and just plain wrong. But I am also a certified forest, so any wood coming off my land is carefully tracked, not for long-hauling reasons, but for sustainable reasons. But that leads to a third reason, and that is I am limited how much I can harvest from my land. I can only harvest 1600 cords per year, and while I might get $25 a cord extra for long hauling, it is no longer worth risking my reputation, Christian ethics, or forest certification for a mere $40,000 extra a year, and most years I do not come close to logging that many cords.

    So I knew that Forest Ranger was getting poor information, and had nothing on me because I did nothing wrong, but I do not appreciate a guy being all puffed up and thinking I am going to cower to him because he is a Forest Ranger. I REALLY did not like him trying to get me to talk after telling him 3 times I was not saying anything without an attorney present.
    Wetting the loads just before getting to the mill was another racket. You get weighed on the way in and on the way out of the mill and the difference is supposed to be the weight of the load. Especially with smaller diameter pulp, wetting the load can add a good amount of weight to the load. Everyone wets the load when leaving their yard with a load but some used to stop off again somewhere just before arrival at the mill and wet it again. Chips go by the ton so some would wet a trailer load of chips, too, which would absorb a tremendous weight of water. Of course, the mills know this so offset their prices accordingly.
    Jimoutside likes this.

  3. #198
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
    SDC2300, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil, ACME handbook for TRUE prospectors (unread)
    5,513
    12010 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (1)
    I forgot this was a gold forum
    KevinInColorado likes this.

  4. #199
    us
    Jan 2019
    Maine
    466
    527 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by placertogo View Post
    Wetting the loads just before getting to the mill was another racket. You get weighed on the way in and on the way out of the mill and the difference is supposed to be the weight of the load. Especially with smaller diameter pulp, wetting the load can add a good amount of weight to the load. Everyone wets the load when leaving their yard with a load but some used to stop off again somewhere just before arrival at the mill and wet it again. Chips go by the ton so some would wet a trailer load of chips, too, which would absorb a tremendous weight of water. Of course, the mills know this so offset their prices accordingly.
    I did good one mud season when I was cutting wood, and the wood was so muddy that I was getting 1-1/2 cords more for the same size load of wood just because of the mud. But they wanted wood, and they got it...

    I always though the mills shafted us loggers on price when they went from stick scale to weight, but I was pleasantly proven wrong. I cut 13.3 cords of 8 foot hemlock pulp and hauled it in, and was paid for 13.2 cords. Considering the amount of air holes and whatnot, I thought that was VERY accurate scale, and so I never complained again.

    It can get sticky when you ship a load of mostly light wood like White Ash or Popil, and come up short on the scale by getting 8 cords of pay for a 9 cord load, but you kind of make up for it when you haul in almost all Beech and get 11-1/2 cords for a 9 cord load; so it all kind of washes out.

    Overall, I have a pretty good reputation with the area paper mills (what few there are left), and have a good relationship with them.

    Yeah: there was plenty of mud!

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    Last edited by OreCart; May 20, 2019 at 11:04 AM.
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  5. #200
    us
    Jan 2019
    Maine
    466
    527 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwasher View Post
    I forgot this was a gold forum
    I hear ya! (LOL)

    But this is Maine; Mineral Rights, Timber Rights, Rights of Way, Farm Rights, etc...it all comes bundled as one here. It is like a big bundle of Asparagus; you can sell of individual rights if you want to, but when you start out, all of it is yours when you get that Warrantee Deed.

    I do not mess with Quit Claim Deeds, and always do researches going back 100 years on the land that I buy, that takes care of a lot of problems right up front.

    But I do not buy and sell land like some loggers do. You can make good money buying land with good wood, logging it, and then reselling it after its logged off, but if it does not sell, then you are left paying property taxes on it. That is too much of a gamble for me; I pay enough in property taxes now.
    Jimoutside likes this.

  6. #201
    us
    Jan 2019
    Maine
    466
    527 times
    Prospecting
    I had mineral "trespass" once however.

    Years ago I was down to my gravel pit and noticed that about a hundred yards of sand had been taken. I had an idea who it was that took it, but did not know for sure. My ex-wife at the time, she was all belligerent about it, but I said they would pay up in time, and waited.

    Three months goes by, and then we get a check in the mail, and it happened to be the guy who I thought had taken it. No harm, no foul. Its been sitting there for thousands of years since the glaciers pushed it around, so why should I be in a hurry to get paid once its moved a bit more? (LOL)

    Here, it sometimes takes people some time to square up, but they eventually do.
    Jimoutside likes this.

  7. #202
    us
    Jan 2019
    Maine
    466
    527 times
    Prospecting
    I have not had much time to prospect lately as I have been working on the front yard of my house, hauling gravel, building bridges, and moving loam. But it has also been raining, and its is VERY wet out there, too wet to work today, so I went out prospecting.

    I keep track of all the sites I sample, rank the site for various factors, but also get pictures of each spot; or shall I say most spots. Number Two site did not have any pictures so I went there to get some, but while I was there I heard a running stream. That should not surprise anyone in Maine. It is May 20th, and out of 20 days in May, 17 have been rain!

    I visited this stream when I was a kid, BUT back then we went up the stream and got hopelessly lost. It made me gunshy enough so I have not been back until today.

    I test panned it and found a few specks in three pans, so I was pretty happy with that and headed down stream, but you can tell by the ribbons in the photo, I own this spot, but barely! Too bad, it really is a pretty spot.

    (Post 1 of 3 in this series)

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  8. #203
    us
    Jan 2019
    Maine
    466
    527 times
    Prospecting
    So I headed down stream, skirted a fairly big swamp and thought I would check a stream that ran between one swamp and another. Its not vey long, maybe 300 feet in length, but when I got there the beavers had beaten me too it. In all my years, I have never seen a time when the beavers were not in one of these two swamps, and this year they took pride in their work. It is hard to see, but in three hundred feet, they had (3) beaver dams.

    It was mostly muck, but I found some gravel and found a few specks of gold in that in two test pans.

    The first picture shows the triple beaver dams, while the second shows the gravel I found in the muck where I test panned.

    (Post 2 of 3 in this series)

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  9. #204
    us
    Jan 2019
    Maine
    466
    527 times
    Prospecting
    By this point I was in the heart of Kittyville (Bobcat country), but put on my Big Boy Pants because I forgot my gun again, and headed deep into the woods. Down here I am about two miles from anywhere.

    I have been here before, but it was deep with snow then so very limited locations I could test pan. This was the real surprise. I found an incredible sippy hole; a nice keyhole in bedrock, fished out the gravel and found NOTHING. There was a speck or two, but I figured I would find quite a bit jammed in this crack.

    The only thing I can think of is that the gold is down deep. I never found the bottom of the hole. It was compacted gravel, and the more I wiggled my hand trowel, it just sank and sank until the whole hand trowel was under water.

    The whole time Lucifer was beating his wife, (also known as, raining; despite the sun being out) so I was soaked to the bone, and did not want to fuss with finding out if this was false bedrock, or a deep hole in real bedrock.

    I followed the stream down to the next swamp, but did not see any really great spots. A lot of it was blackwater, so I lit for home...wary of Kitties.

    The first picture shows the bedrock/submerged boulder in the middle of the stream.
    The second picture shows the Key-holed shaped sippy hole with my almost submerged hand trowel in it to show depth. That should have been a natural gold trap.
    The third picture shows me (sorry it is not Katie posing) grabbing some gravel off the bedrock/submerged boulder.

    (Post 3 of 3 in this series)

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  10. #205
    us
    Aug 2010
    Maine USA
    358
    333 times
    Check the dirt under the moss on those cobbles in the stream. If gold currently runs in that stream the moss will catch it.
    DizzyDigger and Jimoutside like this.

  11. #206
    us
    Dec 2012
    Concrete, WA
    Nokta FoRs Gold, a Gold Cube, 2 Keene Sluices and Lord only knows how many pans....not to mention a load of other gear my wife still doesn't know about!
    3,522
    6090 times
    Prospecting
    I agree 100% about checking that moss. You can grab a
    bucketful pretty easily, and all ya gotta do is wash all the
    dirt out of it, then pan the dirt.

    Don't be worrying about those bobcats...they aren't going
    to bother you so long as you don't corner one. They're also
    mostly nighttime hunters. Bears? I'd worry about, but
    bobcat, no.
    Jimoutside likes this.
    Mike (aka Dizz)

    "If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest
    of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick
    the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you
    were our countrymen." ~~ Samuel Adams, 1776

    Dizzy's Super-Simple, Universal Rule of Forum Conduct: Don't be an ass.

  12. #207
    us
    Jan 2019
    Maine
    466
    527 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by DizzyDigger View Post
    I agree 100% about checking that moss. You can grab a
    bucketful pretty easily, and all ya gotta do is wash all the
    dirt out of it, then pan the dirt.

    Don't be worrying about those bobcats...they aren't going
    to bother you so long as you don't corner one. They're also
    mostly nighttime hunters. Bears? I'd worry about, but
    bobcat, no.
    I read where many people were utilizing the moss, but was not sure on the exact procedure. That makes a lot of sense.

    Just about everywhere I go there is moss because the streams tend to be very shady from all the trees Maine has.

    I was never too worried about Bobcat's, until a few weeks ago I ended up being stalked by one...a HUGE one, and then a few days later I read a report about a woman getting attacked by one in CT. That started worrying me.

    But you make a valid point on Bobcat's versus Bears. I have seen bears while out in the wood, but in 45 years of life, in the same place, I have only seen two, but I have never seen Bobcat's, just tracks. Fresh tracks, but tracks.

    With bears I mostly see evidence of their presence. Like for some strange reason, thy like to roll in our fields of corn. Silly things will knock down half an acre in a night! Or you will walk among the corn and they will have gone down a row and bit the ears off the corn one stalk after another.

    Not to get on a gold-logging-wildlife tangent, but it has been reassuring to see a LOT of rabbits lately. This has been right in Kittyville too (the base of some ledges where the Bobcat's hole up, then drop down into the deer yard where the rabbits hang out as well). The coyotes have put a dent on them the last decade or so, but the hunters have been pounding the coyotes hard, and two years ago took out 70 coyotes on me they said. My dog has killed two, and taken out two fox as well.

    She almost took out an Eagle a few weeks ago. I watched an Eagle swoop out of the sky, talons out, ready to grab a newborn lamb, and the dog starts tearing across the field towards the Eagle, and it flew off without the lamb. They track the eagles here, so I am not sure what would be said about a domestic dog killing an eagle, but she is a Livestock Guard Dog so I cannot tell her no; protect sheep is what she does, 365 days a year. And she does it well I might add. Two coyotes and two fox notches on her collar attest to that. In fact we told our daughters, if you ever get scared of anyone, jump in the pasture, the dog would protect you! She looks like a big old white fluff ball, but I do not recommend putting your hand inside the fence. We had a hunter walk halfway across our field...but only halfway. (LOL)

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  13. #208
    us
    May 2014
    AZ
    Beach High Banker, Sweep Jig, Whippet Dry Washer, Lobo ST, 1/2 width 2 tray Gold Cube, numerous pans, rocker box, and home made fluid bed and stream sluices.
    2,079
    2988 times
    Prospecting
    Most/all(?) reported bobcat attacks are by rabid animals. Good to be on the lookout not only for them but other animals that approach you. Here is a link for you concerning mossing for gold. https://www.google.com/search?q=moss...hrome&ie=UTF-8.
    Last edited by arizau; May 21, 2019 at 11:19 AM.
    Jimoutside likes this.
    If it can't be grown, it must be mined!

  14. #209
    us
    Aug 2010
    Maine USA
    358
    333 times
    If you happen to be in an area where removal of moss is not allowed, wait until after the water has receded and the moss has dried out, use a portable cordless vacuum to remove the dry dirt from the moss, leaving the moss in place. You will recover most of the retained gold that way.
    triple d and Jimoutside like this.

  15. #210
    us
    Jan 2019
    Maine
    466
    527 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by arizau View Post
    Most/all(?) reported bobcat attacks are by rabid animals. Good to be on the lookout not only for them but other animals that approach you. Here is a link for you concerning mossing for gold. https://www.google.com/search?q=moss...hrome&ie=UTF-8.
    The Game Wardens say that there is no Mountain Lions in Maine, but there have been several sightings on Game Camera's and personal sightings. My Sister said she saw one, and a father of one of the kids we watch at our Day Care Center, says he has seen one as well.

    I would live in prime habitat for a Mountain Lion if they were here, but in talking to the area hunters, they said they have been trying to take out a large Bobcat in my area, but have yet to be able to get it.

    If it was a Bobcat, it sure was a big kitty!

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