Met a fellow who hunted Russia

[Tom_in_CA]

I live and hunt here in Calfornia. Back in the mid 1990s, I was hunting a site on the out-skirts of Hunter Liggett Military base, where an old stage stop had been. A truck pulled up along the country road & stopped. Eventually a guy stepped out, and walked over to talk to us. Turned out he was in the army, currently stationed at the military base up the road from where we were. He had seen us down in this field, so he stopped to talk to us.

He told us of how he had been stationed in Berlin, at the US bases near "check-point Charlie", about 1989 to 1991-ish. That was right about the time the iron curtain was coming down. So for the first time, the american military GI's could cross over into the "old-country" with no restrictions. So this guy, as most of the GI's did, would go sight-seeing to see what had been off-limits for so long.

Since this fellow's hobby was metal detecting, it didn't take long for him to wise up, and take his detector across the border to start exploring. Modern electronic gadgets, like metal detectors for instance, were simply un-heard of. ALL the parks were virgin he says. So he began to "make sport" of driving an hour or two into the interior of Russia (to get away from WWII destruction/junk zones), to little hamlets, little towns, etc... in search of these virgin parks. Every single one he came to was simply RIDDLED with coins, as fast as a person cared to dig. And since the Russian culture had not been as exposed to the throw-away culture (cans, tabs, foil, etc...) he said the junk ratio wasn't really that bad.

Naturally, he wasn't getting anything too terribly old (since he was just hunting town common's type turf, round-about-lawn, etc...). But he did get coins back to the late 1700s to mid 1800s at times. What amazed him, was all the silver from the 1920s to '40s stuff, which still wasn't too deep, and was in plentiful supply. He even got a gold coin once (mid 1800s-ish). Eventually his assignment to the US base there in Berlin ended, and he was stationed back in the USA.

I asked him if he ever had any legal hassles, or issues involving detector use. He said that ..... on the contrary, most people he ran into were quite intrigued, and wanted to know all about it. Ie.: "what's that?" "how does it work?" "where can I get one?" etc... And the Russian people were eager to meet Americans, as they were just as happy the iron curtain was down too. He met nothing but nice people, eager to invite you in to the nearest bar for a drink and talk The only hassle he had, was one time some town alderman told him that if he found any coins of antiquity, he'd have to turn them in to the local town hall office, or whatever it was. He said that he told the guy "sure". But then he tells me that his math got real bad right after that I guess an occasional busy-body encounter like that can happen anywhere. Even here in the USA 8)

[kamgort]

I live and hunt here in Calfornia. Back in the mid 1990s, I was hunting a site on the out-skirts of Hunter Liggett Military base, where an old stage stop had been. A truck pulled up along the country road & stopped. Eventually a guy stepped out, and walked over to talk to us. Turned out he was in the army, currently stationed at the military base up the road from where we were. He had seen us down in this field, so he stopped to talk to us.

He told us of how he had been stationed in Berlin, at the US bases near "check-point Charlie", about 1989 to 1991-ish. That was right about the time the iron curtain was coming down. So for the first time, the american military GI's could cross over into the "old-country" with no restrictions. So this guy, as most of the GI's did, would go sight-seeing to see what had been off-limits for so long.

Since this fellow's hobby was metal detecting, it didn't take long for him to wise up, and take his detector across the border to start exploring. Modern electronic gadgets, like metal detectors for instance, were simply un-heard of. ALL the parks were virgin he says. So he began to "make sport" of driving an hour or two into the interior of Russia (to get away from WWII destruction/junk zones), to little hamlets, little towns, etc... in search of these virgin parks. Every single one he came to was simply RIDDLED with coins, as fast as a person cared to dig. And since the Russian culture had not been as exposed to the throw-away culture (cans, tabs, foil, etc...) he said the junk ratio wasn't really that bad.

Naturally, he wasn't getting anything too terribly old (since he was just hunting town common's type turf, round-about-lawn, etc...). But he did get coins back to the late 1700s to mid 1800s at times. What amazed him, was all the silver from the 1920s to '40s stuff, which still wasn't too deep, and was in plentiful supply. He even got a gold coin once (mid 1800s-ish). Eventually his assignment to the US base there in Berlin ended, and he was stationed back in the USA.

I asked him if he ever had any legal hassles, or issues involving detector use. He said that ..... on the contrary, most people he ran into were quite intrigued, and wanted to know all about it. Ie.: "what's that?" "how does it work?" "where can I get one?" etc... And the Russian people were eager to meet Americans, as they were just as happy the iron curtain was down too. He met nothing but nice people, eager to invite you in to the nearest bar for a drink and talk The only hassle he had, was one time some town alderman told him that if he found any coins of antiquity, he'd have to turn them in to the local town hall office, or whatever it was. He said that he told the guy "sure". But then he tells me that his math got real bad right after that I guess an occasional busy-body encounter like that can happen anywhere. Even here in the USA 8)

To hunt for coins in Russia can be a foreigner. The only problem with the export of coins. Anything above 50 years are prohibited to be exported. THIS IS SMUGGLING,

[Goose-0]

Oh come on, get off of it!! Smuggling? A few coins? Yeah, let em rot....not me!

[kamgort]

Oh come on, get off of it!! Smuggling? A few coins? Yeah, let em rot....not me!

Russian legislation is not perfect.

[Tom_in_CA]

Kamgort, the same prohibition about not removing an excavated object over a certain # of years old, can probably be said of most any country in the world, IF you asked enough bureaucrats "can I?" I highly doubt that when people cross the border (as is common-place now ever since the iron curtain fell), that border patrol at auto cross points, and at the airport, are looking for individual coins. Believe me: they have their hands full looking for drugs, explosives, quaranteened fruits and veggies, and other sorts of trafficking. If they were looking for some sort of "smuggling", it would not be on the scale of a few dozen dirty coins in someone's pocket change. They'd be looking for things like someone who's just raided pyramaids, shipwreck salvor stuff, etc.....

And how about this: in this modern wonderful age of buy/sell on internet commerce, what's to stop a coin collector in Russia, from selling an old Russian coin, from his collection, to an american collector? I mean, wouldn't he just package up the coin in a manilla envelope, and send it to his collector friend in the USA? If so, then how does that "picture" change if the coin was one the Russian collector got via metal detecting? Does his mailing the coin constitute "smuggling"? Sounds like a legitimate transaction to me.

[kamgort]

Kamgort, the same prohibition about not removing an excavated object over a certain # of years old, can probably be said of most any country in the world, IF you asked enough bureaucrats "can I?" I highly doubt that when people cross the border (as is common-place now ever since the iron curtain fell), that border patrol at auto cross points, and at the airport, are looking for individual coins. Believe me: they have their hands full looking for drugs, explosives, quaranteened fruits and veggies, and other sorts of trafficking. If they were looking for some sort of "smuggling", it would not be on the scale of a few dozen dirty coins in someone's pocket change. They'd be looking for things like someone who's just raided pyramaids, shipwreck salvor stuff, etc.....

And how about this: in this modern wonderful age of buy/sell on internet commerce, what's to stop a coin collector in Russia, from selling an old Russian coin, from his collection, to an american collector? I mean, wouldn't he just package up the coin in a manilla envelope, and send it to his collector friend in the USA? If so, then how does that "picture" change if the coin was one the Russian collector got via metal detecting? Does his mailing the coin constitute "smuggling"? Sounds like a legitimate transaction to me.

Do you are Russian laws. I have a lot of old Russian coins, but I can not give a foreigner (you). I have already answered why. You can come to Russia with a metal detector and look for old coins. Take their findings you can not.

[Tom_in_CA]

Kamgort, before the iron curtain fell, a friend of mine got hooked up with a Russian university professor, who was taking a group of american metal detecting hobbyists to some of the satellite states (Transylvania, etc....) on a metal detecting excursion, under the umbrella/authority of the university. Ie.: sort of like one of those paid British tours, where you pay a local person to show you the ropes, take you around, arrange your travel, etc....

And I heard all the same "song and dance" from the promoter of that trip, as you're saying now. That nothing found, could be taken back home. All the finds had to be turned in to the archaeologists. Not only because it was under the color of the authority of the university that this hunt trip was done (that part makes sense), but also because of the laws you are alluding to.

So I asked my friend about how the boarding the plane went, when they got ready to fly back to the United states. He said that ..... yes ..... they're scanning and checking luggage JUST LIKE ANY FLIGHT does (you know the drill, weapons, knives, explosives, drugs, etc....). But when I asked my friend if they got down to the actual riffling through his underwear, shaving kit, tearing open his peronal effects, etc... He said no. Of course not. In other words, there would be absolutely nothing to stop someone from having a few coins in his luggage, or pocket. Or if he'd found a ring in Russia, to simply be wearing the ring, on his own finger, etc.....

So seriously now, as long as we're not talking exporting gold bars, raiding historical sites, & shipwreck salvor stuff, does anyone really care if someone is carrying about a few dozen coins? What if a coin collector is vacationing there, and stopped in at a local coin collectibles shop, and bought some coins to add to his collection in the USA? And ...... heck, don't Russians have access to the internet to buy and sell collectibles through the mail ....... even to and with those outside the country? For example: I once posted a detector for sale on T'net classified, and ended up selling it, through mail-shipment, to a fellow in Russia. I presume that I too could have bought coins from him, and he could have sent them in a padded manilla envelope to me.

I know you mean well in your trying to go by the technical things you're citing, but I still think they aren't meant to be applied to the small scale of hobbyist finds. Oh sure, you might find someone to say they DO apply (if you asked enough questions of enough bored bureaucrats), but do you think anyone really cares?

[kamgort]

Kamgort, before the iron curtain fell, a friend of mine got hooked up with a Russian university professor, who was taking a group of american metal detecting hobbyists to some of the satellite states (Transylvania, etc....) on a metal detecting excursion, under the umbrella/authority of the university. Ie.: sort of like one of those paid British tours, where you pay a local person to show you the ropes, take you around, arrange your travel, etc....

And I heard all the same "song and dance" from the promoter of that trip, as you're saying now. That nothing found, could be taken back home. All the finds had to be turned in to the archaeologists. Not only because it was under the color of the authority of the university that this hunt trip was done (that part makes sense), but also because of the laws you are alluding to.

So I asked my friend about how the boarding the plane went, when they got ready to fly back to the United states. He said that ..... yes ..... they're scanning and checking luggage JUST LIKE ANY FLIGHT does (you know the drill, weapons, knives, explosives, drugs, etc....). But when I asked my friend if they got down to the actual riffling through his underwear, shaving kit, tearing open his peronal effects, etc... He said no. Of course not. In other words, there would be absolutely nothing to stop someone from having a few coins in his luggage, or pocket. Or if he'd found a ring in Russia, to simply be wearing the ring, on his own finger, etc.....

So seriously now, as long as we're not talking exporting gold bars, raiding historical sites, & shipwreck salvor stuff, does anyone really care if someone is carrying about a few dozen coins? What if a coin collector is vacationing there, and stopped in at a local coin collectibles shop, and bought some coins to add to his collection in the USA? And ...... heck, don't Russians have access to the internet to buy and sell collectibles through the mail ....... even to and with those outside the country? For example: I once posted a detector for sale on T'net classified, and ended up selling it, through mail-shipment, to a fellow in Russia. I presume that I too could have bought coins from him, and he could have sent them in a padded manilla envelope to me.

I know you mean well in your trying to go by the technical things you're citing, but I still think they aren't meant to be applied to the small scale of hobbyist finds. Oh sure, you might find someone to say they DO apply (if you asked enough questions of enough bored bureaucrats), but do you think anyone really cares?

The officials, like politicians will always coexist. This rule of nature or the state. Russia now is not the Soviet Union with its own laws. You can go to our metalloiiskatelem with what was previously prohibited. In America, too, there are laws on the possibility of cultural values. Why do not you say that?

[Tom_in_CA]

kamgort, I am having trouble understanding your first part, of your post. Not sure what you are trying to say.

But as to the last part: yes, the united states also has rules, that can *technically* affect everything we find with "cultural heritage" strings attached to them, if you try hard enough. That is to say: If we here (where metal detecting is generally accepted as totally legal) were ask enough questions, of enough bureaucrats, far enough up the chain of command, then yes: of course, you can find yourself a "no" . But yet, md'ing goes on here, and no one cares.

So that is why I'm posting, what I do, in regards to the issue of detecting in Russia. Am wondering if it's the same psychology of "no one cares, UNTIL you ask?"

[kamgort]

kamgort, I am having trouble understanding your first part, of your post. Not sure what you are trying to say.

But as to the last part: yes, the united states also has rules, that can *technically* affect everything we find with "cultural heritage" strings attached to them, if you try hard enough. That is to say: If we here (where metal detecting is generally accepted as totally legal) were ask enough questions, of enough bureaucrats, far enough up the chain of command, then yes: of course, you can find yourself a "no" . But yet, md'ing goes on here, and no one cares.

So that is why I'm posting, what I do, in regards to the issue of detecting in Russia. Am wondering if it's the same psychology of "no one cares, UNTIL you ask?"

To me the Swedes turned to the forum. An immigrant from Russia, suggested that they search on the ground fighting WW2. I said that
DO NOT take out the findings, it is cultural values​​. They asked the emigrant documents for the export of artifacts. Document no. The Swedes refused to go on searching.

[Tom_in_CA]

You say some swedes went to Russia, and wanted to detect in Russia? But upon your telling them they couldn't do it, they went and asked a immigration political/lawyer person? And they were told "no"? I'm having trouble understanding if this is what you said happened (because I know that English is not your first language). Is this what you were trying to say?

And is this only an issue of taking stuff back to Sweden? Or simply the act of metal detecting itself? Ie.: would those Swedes have been allowed to simply metal detect in Russia, but would just (when being technical with immigation minutia) have to leave the coins there in Russia? Ok, then, how about this: What if they detect there, then sell the coins to a local coin-dealer, and then just return to Sweden with the money they made, from detecting, that way?

[kamgort]

You say some swedes went to Russia, and wanted to detect in Russia? But upon your telling them they couldn't do it, they went and asked a immigration political/lawyer person? And they were told "no"? I'm having trouble understanding if this is what you said happened (because I know that English is not your first language). Is this what you were trying to say?

And is this only an issue of taking stuff back to Sweden? Or simply the act of metal detecting itself? Ie.: would those Swedes have been allowed to simply metal detect in Russia, but would just (when being technical with immigation minutia) have to leave the coins there in Russia? Ok, then, how about this: What if they detect there, then sell the coins to a local coin-dealer, and then just return to Sweden with the money they made, from detecting, that way?

Old coins and finds a lot in Russia. The price for them is small, since it is the domestic market. The problem is that the export is prohibited.