Its just not worth it!

[cyberdan]

It's just not worth it!

Every few months i tear down all the hard drives I have accumulated. (I recycle computers) right now I probably have 50-75. As I was tearing down my first one I started thinking about the last trip to my recycler. I had over 60 lbs and was quite dissapointed in what they paid so I just called them again and got prices. they looked up my last drop off: painted, contaminated and clean cast. Now every single hard drive was completley stripped of everything and it took me countless hours to do.

This is what they pay per pound now.
painted .29¢
contaminated .15¢
clean cast .30¢

the lady said if I bring in a complete hard drive they will pay .15¢ lb.
it is really not worth it to tear down a hard drive for .14¢ lb.

especially since a stripped drive weighs 8.8 oz = .16¢
and a complete drive weighs 19.1 oz = .18¢

I just did the math I get an extra two cents if I do not do any work. Now that is a no brainer.

I save the hard drives for the green circuit boards. Those have more precious metals (ounce per ounce) than any other green boards on a computer. I also save RAM & CPUs. Those three items bring good prices especially of feeBay.

 

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[bill from lachine]

Dan,

Your logic makes sense to me....kind of like people who strip copper wires of the rubber housing....time versus difference in price doesn't add up.

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[Peyton Manning]

sounds like you are one of those millennials who avoid work!

 

[joncutt87]

I strip my copper wire while I'm watching tv. Got 40 lbs or so hoarded. Always looking for more

 

[ScrapperChad]

I strip my copper wire while I'm watching tv. Got 40 lbs or so hoarded. Always looking for more

Same here. I bring my copper wire inside and strip the wire down in front of the tv or even when I'm browsing the internet.

It's definitely worth it to me. Especially when I find myself getting bored and can't get outside during a snow storm or other bad weather.

I'm hoarding copper as well.

Haven't weighed it. But I have approximately 30 lbs of clean copper.

Gonna continue to stockpile in hopes of a price increase in the future. Don't need the money right now so I can sit on my copper stockpile for as long as needed.

 

[Davers]

Same here. I bring my copper wire inside and strip the wire down in front of the tv or even when I'm browsing the internet.

It's definitely worth it to me. Especially when I find myself getting bored and can't get outside during a snow storm or other bad weather.

I'm hoarding copper as well.

Haven't weighed it. But I have approximately 30 lbs of clean copper.

Gonna continue to stockpile in hopes of a price increase in the future. Don't need the money right now so I can sit on my copper stockpile for as long as needed.

Doing the same thing with my Larger Copper(Stripping) & Saving all the Copper & brass I dig.
I turn in Steel , Aluminium, (cast ,sheet, can's) all pay about the same, every few months......Steel/Iron is 5 cents a lb at this time.

 

[against the wind]

I probably have an accumulated total of 50 pounds of brass and copper mixed in together. I usually just throw whatever copper tubing or brass keys I dig, into the same tub. Eventually, I have to get it to the junkman.

 

[hvacker]

I worked for a company that customized business jets. The plane would fly in from France with a ferry permit (one time flight) and just enough electronics to fly. Actually that is quite a bit. Wire bundles about large fist size and some the length of the plane would be tossed.
One guy that took care of the building would take the wire home and burn the insulation off. I thought that was fairly crude and probably oxidized the wire badly but just shows another way.
This was the late 60's and not much thought was given to the environment at the time by most.

 

[SorenCoins]

Are you saying 0.16 cents or 0.16 dollars?

 

[darksky1x]

Every few months i tear down all the hard drives I have accumulated. (I recycle computers) right now I probably have 50-75. As I was tearing down my first one I started thinking about the last trip to my recycler. I had over 60 lbs and was quite dissapointed in what they paid so I just called them again and got prices. they looked up my last drop off: painted, contaminated and clean cast. Now every single hard drive was completley stripped of everything and it took me countless hours to do.

This is what they pay per pound now.
painted .29¢
contaminated .15¢
clean cast .30¢

the lady said if I bring in a complete hard drive they will pay .15¢ lb.
it is really not worth it to tear down a hard drive for .14¢ lb.

especially since a stripped drive weighs 8.8 oz = .16¢
and a complete drive weighs 19.1 oz = .18¢

I just did the math I get an extra two cents if I do not do any work. Now that is a no brainer.

I save the hard drives for the green circuit boards. Those have more precious metals (ounce per ounce) than any other green boards on a computer. I also save RAM & CPUs. Those three items bring good prices especially of feeBay.

Hard Disc Drives, The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth!

Dan, I hear what you are saying but I must respectfully disagree with your logic. Let me say this before I go any further, I am not trying to piss you off or start a fight, I just happen to view HDD's differently than you. Another consideration is how you value your time. HDDs are so easy to tear down and once you get the hang of it you can dismantle one in less than five minutes.

The information you will find online about HDD's and how they fit into the e-scrap industry is all over the place, the majority of which is just plain wrong. The problem seems to be that most of these articles are written by scrap yard owners or their employees. Most scrap yard owners have it together when it comes to recycling scrap metal but when it comes to e-scrap, very few have a clue. Another problem is most who engage in e-scrap don't know what HDDs are made of and/or the different materials used in there construction. If they did they would invest 3 to 5 minutes to dismantle and properly sort them.

Even though e-scrap has been assigned to the scrap metal industry, it is nothing like scrap metal and most yard owners continue to try and apply what they know about scrap metal to e-scrap. They just naturally assume that their tried and tested rules , methods, and standard business practices they use for scrap metal will work fore-scrap. Nothing could be further from the truth!

IMHO it was a mistake to try and fit e-scrap into the scrap metal industry in the first place. They are nothing alike and even though to some degree some materials overlap, the vast majority of the materials that are generated in e-scrap just don’t fit into a “scrap metal”classification. They are just as alien to the scrap metal industry as water is to the surface of the moon. The first time I asked a yard owner if they bought tantalum caps he gave me this puzzled look and asked me what are they and where would you find them. Without saying yes or no he definitely answered my question!

Most scrap yard owners know scrap metal but, for whatever reason, they have not taken any steps to educate their self about e-scrap. Either they think that because they know the scrap metal industry there is really nothing they need to learn about e-scrap … they already know it all .. OR they figure that as time goes by they will figure it out eventually so no need to invest their time to research and become educated in this new industry .. OR they really have no interest in e-scrap and fail to see the big picture and the very bright and profitable future that is the destiny of thee-scrap industry.

E-scrap is NOT scrap metal! They are nothing alike! The materials are different, the places you find e-scrap is different than where you normally find scrap metal and the knowledge that one needs to make money with scrap metal is nothing like the knowledge needed to make money with e-scrap. Scrap metal(when compared to e-scrap) is kindergarten and e-scrap is a 4 year college degree. I know that statement will probably piss a lot of people off but all I can tell you is… GET OVER IT!

One of the articles I recently read regarding HDD’s was written by a very large scrap metal recycling company with multiple branches scattered across the USA. In that article they made the following statement;

“The best way to make sure the information on your old hard drive is secure is to have the drive shredded, in fact the ONLY way to make sure no one can access that information is to have the Hard Drive shredded”.

Excuse me, what was that they just wrote? Did they really say “the only way”?

For the life of me I could not understand why anyone would make such an erroneous statement. As I continued to look their site over I suddenly came across the answer to my question. This company had a fleet of mobile shredders (I’m talking between 10 to 20 trucks) and their only function was to go from site to site, office to office and shred HDD’s. With that much money invested in mobile shredders they had to make everyone believe that all old, discarded HDD’s must be shredded to protect your personal information. Did not matter that they were not being truthful with everyone, truth was irrelevant,they had to keep the fleet up and running!

Fact is there are a lost of different ways to secure the data on your old HDD’s other than shredding! IMHO telling someone to have their HDD shredded is not only irresponsible (from an e-scrap prospective) but it’s just plain bad advice. Makes a lot more sense to tell them howto properly scrap an HDD by disassembling it and turn a profit, then it does to tell them to shred the HDD and make nothing!. Not only do you have to pay for the drive to be shredded but once shredded, it has no e-scrap value what-so-ever!

Shredding a HDD makes no sense at all. If an HDD is scrapped properly and all of the various components and metals properly sorted and saved there is the potential for increased profit and no risk of anyone ever accessing your personal information from that drive. I'll give you a rundown on all the different components that go into making an HDD and the value those components have as far as e-scrap is concerned.

You need to understand that any and all data on an HDD is magnetically written and/or stored on the drive platters. Best way to explain a platter is to tell you they look just like a CD or a DVD disc, only difference is the material they are made of and how they are made. Any data that is still on the HDD, personal or otherwise, has been magnetically written to the platters. If data security is a concern then there are a couple of different things you can do to insure that no one can access that data other than shredding or punching the drive. You can either break the platter in half, or take a utility knife and cut deep groves on both sides of the platters, then save them as scrap platinum, OR you can just keep the platters and make Christmas tree ornaments out of them.

If an HDD is scrapped properly and all of the various components and metals properly sorted and saved there is the potential for profit,when you shred an HDD you make nothing, it even costs you money.HDD’s are loaded with valuable metals and other components. Once you have disassembled a few you’ll find in only takes a few minutes(less than 5 once you get the hang of it) to break the HDD down into its basic parts. These parts are worth far more than you can get for selling an intact HDD as a complete unit to any scrap yard. If you actually have the HDD shredded you end up with nothing (no profit)for your troubles AND you have to pay someone to shred the drive.

There are no industry standards as far as HDD’s go. For instance even though the majority of HDD manufacturers use Stainless Steel for the top cover of the drive and Stainless Steel screws to secure this cover to the drive, there are a few of the “cheaper” drive manufacturers that use regular steel for the cover and screws, so make sure you use your magnet to check this item. I have even found drive covers that a magnet stuck too. When I looked a little closer it wasn't the drive cover the magnet was sticking too. It was a thin steel metal plate that had been glued to the top of the stainless steel drive cover. Once I peeled that steel plate off I discovered the standard stainless steel drive cover underneath.

Another thing to watch out for are the drive platters. Originally all HDD platters were made of aluminum with thin layers of other materials deposited on the aluminum. On top of the aluminum two layers of a cobalt/nickel/iron alloy (Co-Ni-Ff) separated by a 4 atom thick layer of ruthenium (Ru), are deposited.The magnetic storage layer consists of a cobalt/chromium/platinum alloy (Co-Cr-Pt)composing several sub layers. Ruthenium (Ru) is also used here to help orientate the magnetic grains .

As technology advanced manufacturers started using glass and/or ceramics in place of aluminum but mostly in the smaller 2.5” laptop drive platters. The rest of the layers remained the same. It’s pretty easy to tell if the base metal used for the platters is glass or ceramics as opposed to aluminum, just make sure you check.

Materials used in 3.5” & 2.5” HDD's

1. Stainless Steel (top cover plate and cover screws. Some manufactures will glue a thin layer of steel on top of the stainless steel. Check with magnet)
2. Aluminum Frame (base/body of HDD)
3. Data Platters — 1 to 8 platinum plated platters depending on drive size (platter base will be made from either aluminum, glass or ceramics)
4. Circuit Board (HDD Circuit boards are loaded with precious metals and considered to be premium grade PCB’s. They can either be broken down into their various components for e-scrap processing or sold as is to a refiner for PM recovery. Following are some of the components found on these boards)
   • ​​ICC’s (gold wiring)
     ​
   • MLCC’s (palladium)​
   • Gold (pins in the data cable connectors)​
   • Tantalum Caps (tantalum)​
   • Silver (assorted places)​
   • Drive Pin Jumpers (gold)​
5. Drive Actuators (minimum of two per drive. Actuator consists of magnet and mounting bracket)

​1. 2- Neodymium Magnets (these are the strongest magnets made)
2. 2- Permalloy Magnet Brackets (Permalloy is a super-alloy with an 80% nickle content)
​

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Shredding a HDD is old school, scrap metal thinking; disassembling a HDD is new school, e-scrap thinking.​

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I recognize that there are many who do not share my views when it comes to shredding a HDD, but that's OK. It's diversity that makes our society strong. However there is one thing that advocates of HDD shredding will never tell you and that's the negative side of shredding. Neodymium magnets (aka rare earth magnets) are the strongest permanent magnets made by man. They are a combination of Neodymium/Iron/Boron (NdFeB). Neodymium is a rare earth element (REE) and REEs are critical to modern society.​

​

Approximately 95% of the worlds Neodymium is controlled and comes from one country, China.How important Neodymium is as a REE became apparent in 2010 when China began to restrict its export. This caused instability in the stock market as prices for Neodymium began to rise. In 2011 the concern for market supply combined with surge in demand for Neodymium prompted the Department of Energy (DoE) to label Neodymium as a critical material for both the short and medium term.In 2015 China again tightened its grip of Neodymium with new export restrictions. These new restrictions reduced the amount of Neodymium available to the world markets by an additional 40%. Again, the market responded with instability as prices for Neodymium soared. ​

​

China's move reduce to reduce the availability of Neodymium to world markets with new export restrictions prompted the DoE to explore and encourage the research and study the feasibly of Neodymium Recycling. In one such study the researchers investigated two recycling methods centered around Neodymium magnets used in HDDs. In the first study the HDDs were manually disassembled, and the magnets were deposited into a container with hydrogen gas. The neodymium absorbed the hydrogen gas, causing the magnets to disintegrate into a powder. The powder was sieved and then milled to break up the remaining larger particles. What remained was a powder equivalent to where mined material is when it's midway through making the magnet. The simplicity of this process and a high recovery rate of 99% made this a very a promising prospect for additional research.​

​

In the second study the intact HDDs were shredded resulting in a jumbled mix of metals from which the neodymium must be leached using sulfuric acid.The leaching process recovered 99% of the Neodymium available after the HDDs were shredded. On the surface the shredding/leaching process appeared to be a better alternative than the dismantling/hydrogen gas absorption process only because of the manual labor requirement to retrieve the magnets from the HDD . But there was one serious flaw to the shredding process that no one likes to talk about. During the process of shredding the HDDs there was a 90% loss of the Neodymium contained in the magnets leaving only 10% of the Neodymium available for recovery by leaching. This clearly eliminated the recovery of Neodymium from shredded HDDs as a viable alternative.​

​

Recycles actively engaged in the business of HDD shredding will not tell you this, they won't even talk about it. If questioned about the effects shredding has on the recovery of REEs from the drive magnets they will proudly boast that shredding then leaching the remaining materials with sulfuric acid has a proven recovery rate of 99% for REEs, with no mention of the fact that 90% of the Neodymium they started with is lost during the process of shredding.​

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This is a very deceptive way of operating a business all in the name of profit. If asked a question and you respond by only telling part of the truth and not the whole truth, are you guilty of lying? Probably not, nut you are clearly guilty of being deceptive. Deception calls to doubt the morality of the business and should make one seriously ask their self if they are comfortable doing business with a business that has no problem practicing deception.​

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Even though e-scrap has been assigned to the scrap metal industry, it is nothing like scrap metal. Most yard owners try to apply what they know about scrap metal to e-scrap . They naturally assume that their tried and tested methods and standard business practices they use for their scrap metal business will work for e-scrap. Nothing could be further from the truth!​

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Scrap Metal and E-scrap are two different industries and the materials encountered in each industry are different. Not only are the materials different, but the places these materials are sourced is also different. Different industries, different materials and different material sources. Why would anyone believe that the logic used for scrap metal is the same logic you use for e-scrap? With so many differences, why would the only similarity between the two industries be the logic?

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That’s like the difference between fishing and hunting ducks or geese. A rod, reel and some hooks works great for fishing but if you tell someone to use a rod, reel and some hooks to go hunt some ducks they might just ask you what in the heck have you been smoking!

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There it is, you have all the information, you decide for yourself what makes more sense, paying someone to shred a HDD or dismantling them for e-scrap and turning a negative cash flow (cost of shredding) into a positive cash flow. Instead of taking money out of your pocket and handing it to someone else, you’re putting more money in your pocket! Personally I think it’s a “no brainer”!

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Nowt hat you have all of the facts, let's go hunt some ducks!​