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  1. Oroblanco, Sure, I know 'Don' isn't Joseph's...

    Oroblanco,

    Sure, I know 'Don' isn't Joseph's name; I'm pretty sure ' Oroblanco' isn't yours...:tongue3:

    I used 'Donny' as a playful gesture that Joe knows was Don in jest, in fact, apart from...
  2. Don, Millennia is thousands of years.. ...

    Don,

    Millennia is thousands of years..


    IPUK
  3. Donny, I get your point, however, the Injuns...

    Donny,

    I get your point, however, the Injuns beat whitey to North America by millenia. It is the whiteys amongst themselves who are still determining who out of them, got there first.

    IPUK
  4. Some really interesting information being shared...

    Some really interesting information being shared by all. :occasion14:

    I recall watching a British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) documentary some years ago regarding the remains of a "red-haired"...
  5. CJ, Agree that the evidence does indeed point...

    CJ,

    Agree that the evidence does indeed point to the Apache being "chased" into the Southwest - probably by the more numerous and in some cases, even fiercer and crueler Comanche. But as the...
  6. That is quite alright Oroblanco - I am simply...

    That is quite alright Oroblanco - I am simply calling it like I see it.

    Thank you for the link, I have come across that story and it is a most interesting one.

    It follows-on from some other...
  7. That is what keeps us all going: wanting,...

    That is what keeps us all going: wanting, yearning to learn what lies around the next hill/mountain/dune/forest. The "dreamers" are the ones responsible for crossing oceans, continents, reaching the...
  8. Why, cheers to you dear Don; we might just crack...

    Why, cheers to you dear Don; we might just crack that nut yet...:occasion14:


    IPUK
  9. Senor Donny, There isn't too much information...

    Senor Donny,

    There isn't too much information around about him. His real name isn't known, he started his quest with his mule in Chihuahua state in the early 1990s, he is still living in Mexico -...
  10. Oroblanco, I hope you do keep posting on...

    Oroblanco,


    I hope you do keep posting on this sub-thread; it is good to exchange thoughts, ideas and information with one of the more erudite members who takes a calm, measured and mature...
  11. PS. Forgot to add about the Comanche. They...

    PS. Forgot to add about the Comanche.

    They were without any doubt, extremely cruel and vicious in their ways. They tortured, raped, maimed and killed without discrimination . They were living a...
  12. Thought-provoking ideas there, Oroblanco. ...

    Thought-provoking ideas there, Oroblanco.

    However, let us first consider the point of "ancestry". Even though many Americans claim some "native" heritage, I would hazard a guess it is minimal and...
  13. Old, I do not know too much about your...

    Old,

    I do not know too much about your outgoing president.

    But, perhaps, there was missed opportunities; it would seem that many ignoramuses were still holding onto their bigotry, ignorance and...
  14. CJ, I concur with your view of "survival of...

    CJ,

    I concur with your view of "survival of the fittest" being the indicator of the advancement with way of life prevails.

    Most definitely, the vast majority of people would live in the present...
  15. Oroblanco, As you correctly pointed out,...

    Oroblanco,

    As you correctly pointed out, slavery did exist in the Americas and it was brutal - there is no denying that.

    What I would question is this: was anybody better at creating a system...
  16. Thank you CJ, for the recommended reading; I have...

    Thank you CJ, for the recommended reading; I have never really read or looked into the Apache lifestyle from a woman's point of view or experience(s).

    Abusing their womenfolk and drinking tiswin...
  17. Some excellent and extremely valid points there,...

    Some excellent and extremely valid points there, Oroblanco.

    I would also like to add that the 'civilised' Spanish were taking slaves the moment they set foot on present-day Mexico and, indeed,...
  18. CJ, Interesting question. My definition...

    CJ,


    Interesting question.

    My definition of "the bitter end", would, perhaps, be what the Chiricahuas fighting defined it to be; fighting until the 'enemy' was gone or one was eliminated....
  19. The Chiricahua Apache gave the US Army a decent...

    The Chiricahua Apache gave the US Army a decent enough fight for over a decade whilst under the leadership of Cochise.

    It simply wasn't about "avoiding capture" which defined their fighting...
  20. The Mescalero are an interesting branch of the...

    The Mescalero are an interesting branch of the Apache family tree. They had very close links with the eastern Chiricahua, and raided and went on the warpath with them frequently. They also provided...
  21. Thank you, Cubfan64. If I'm not mistaken,...

    Thank you, Cubfan64.

    If I'm not mistaken, Ingstad always felt his guides that had once been on the warpath with Geronimo, had made surreptitious contacts with the Apache that were still living in...
  22. I came across a reference that one Apache girl...

    I came across a reference that one Apache girl was 'captured' by ranchers/cowboys, and was then adopted by an American teacher who was either teaching or travelling through the Madre mountains. This...
  23. That is really interesting, Injunbro. Thank...

    That is really interesting, Injunbro.

    Thank you.

    Even though Massai knew the hardships and travails he and anyone with him would face, he still made the conscious decision to live off the Res....
  24. Injunbro, Is there anything you can add to...

    Injunbro,

    Is there anything you can add to the incredible story of Massai's escape from the PoW train that the Chiricahua had been tricked onto.


    IPUK
  25. [QUOTE=azdave35;5184416] Yaaaay! Here we...

    Yaaaay!

    Here we go again - "bashing Americans", bashing "Christian republicans"...blab,blab,blab....

    I'd be very surprised if you actually knew who your 'pappy' was you extremist,...
  26. [QUOTE=FEMF;5184401] Oh,oh Another hopeless...

    Oh,oh

    Another hopeless bible-thumping lunatic.

    You do not know me but yet call me "godless" and a clown...?

    I think you need to get back on the medication or start praying harder to your...
  27. "Wah-wah"...? You big baby!! So now...

    "Wah-wah"...?

    You big baby!!

    So now democrats are "savages"...?

    Well done.

    Your mom n pop (maybe also your older siblings?) must be very proud of you...
  28. Ooooooooh..... You and your fantasy of a...

    Ooooooooh.....

    You and your fantasy of a 'god'!

    Typical religious fundamentalist...:hello2:

    Keep your sympathy for your deluded self you sorry excuse for an idiot.


    IPUK
  29. Well, well... Our resident ignoramus can't...

    Well, well...

    Our resident ignoramus can't seem to help herself!

    Now you speak for Don as well...?

    :dontknow:

    Sorry, I really can't take your ramblings seriously - for someone who doesn't...
  30. [QUOTE=Real of Tayopa;5183693]IPUK, you asked...

    [QUOTE=Real of Tayopa;5183693]IPUK, you asked if[[[

    Ah, but there is. Course you would have to split with the Goov"t, the lumber Ejiod. As for oro and me. we would be contaent with say 10...
  31. Don, I was jesting with you on that point; we've...

    Don, I was jesting with you on that point; we've got bigger fish to fry.

    If there really is a repository there with considerable wealth, then let's go to work!

    I know that Amy and the Trio had...
  32. With all due respect to Oro, Don, you need to...

    With all due respect to Oro, Don, you need to make this call on your lonesome.

    Let's get the ball rolling if you're up for a challenge...

    IPUK
  33. Anyway, Don, me and the team are fairly sure that...

    Anyway, Don, me and the team are fairly sure that the Apache are no longer in the Sierra Madres, therefore, we are willing to come over to 'ol Mexico and help you dig-up specie and bars of whatever...
  34. Don, I believe things were a tad more...

    Don,

    I believe things were a tad more complicated.

    Believe it or not, scouts became hostiles a la Ulzana, hostiles became scouts - Chatto - family, relationships, enimity, jealousy and much...
  35. The Chiricahua scouts in particular were singled...

    The Chiricahua scouts in particular were singled out for praise amongst the officers that led them. Most, if not all, gave special mention to their ability, stamina, focus, loyalty and skills in...
  36. True, it meant having a wary life of raiding,...

    True, it meant having a wary life of raiding, killing and keeping constant vigilance for the opposition in all its forms.

    But killing and stealing/raiding the Mexicans was considered 'acceptable'...
  37. The US troops might have been relentless (it was...

    The US troops might have been relentless (it was the Apache scouts that were the determining factor in my opinion) in pursuing the Chiricahua, but that still didn't stop them wanting to live 'free'...
  38. Oroblanco, Geronimo might have been causing...

    Oroblanco,

    Geronimo might have been causing some mischief around the time of the LDM legend was being born, he was in Arizona alright. But. In truth, he had about as much to do with the...
  39. I did not start mentioning WW2 - it was in...

    I did not start mentioning WW2 - it was in response to a silly comment made by an ignorant fool...


    IPUK

    PS. Hope your still visiting this thread...
  40. Wayheeeey...! You're right; I do not believe...

    Wayheeeey...!


    You're right; I do not believe in a lady who had a baby from 'god'. Don't believe we're all sinners and that burning bushes talk etc.,

    You "fought the evil Apache and abolished...
  41. CJ, The history "we get over here" is exactly...

    CJ,

    The history "we get over here" is exactly the same you get over there, unless of course all the documentation, evidence and contemporary information exists in a parallel universe.

    I do not...
  42. Those Paddies are lazy, sulking little girls'...

    Those Paddies are lazy, sulking little girls' blouses that do not deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as the Great British who conquered and then civilised the world...


    IPUK
  43. Injunbro, Don I think that many have missed...

    Injunbro, Don

    I think that many have missed the gist of what we have been discussing here..., of course we know and accept that the time and environment in which the Apache had their run-ins with...
  44. Hey Donny, Think we may have discussed this...

    Hey Donny,

    Think we may have discussed this one with our old 'drinking' matey EL Crow, we really do miss that old rascal of a pirate; I truly wanted to run my current project past him as I'm due...
  45. Injunbro, Depending on where you found the...

    Injunbro,

    Depending on where you found the Spanish conquistadores items, that could prove to by extremely interesting from a historical point of view. There is a story that when Coronado made his...
  46. [QUOTE=azdave35;5172284] Trust me, better to...

    Trust me, better to be accused of "knowing everything" as oppose to "not knowing anything..."


    IPUK
  47. [QUOTE=Old;5172270] Old, Again you are...

    Old,

    Again you are assuming that any "quest" for the "truth" hasn't started from as early as possible. Believe it or not, but most can know without saying that you have to begin from 'A' in order...
  48. Old, I am not sure it is very accurate nor...

    Old,

    I am not sure it is very accurate nor fair to say "most of what is written as history is wrong."

    That is a pretty strong statement to make.

    It is also wise to remember for every book...
  49. Thank you for the details, CJ. IPUK

    Thank you for the details, CJ.

    IPUK
  50. [/I] Don, Some say the Apache didn't...

    [/I]


    Don,

    Some say the Apache didn't 'arrive' in the Southwest/northern Mexico area until the 1500s, the Spanish didn't get to that area until nearly the middle of the same time period, how...
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