To All Treasure Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

[ivan salis]

yes we thank you for buying these coins and if you want to still want to be able to buy them in the future * we do not need nor want laws similar to aussielands ones -- you must buy them from us since your messed up laws sadly do not allow you to get one of yer very own -- I very sorry that your govt "robbed" you of your rights to find and keep things --now its "all for the state" over there --hoo ray for the state * but your shot at the brass ring just went by the wayside in the process -- lets see in aussieland --- if you just found a massive treasure wreck today --- now you MUST report it within 30 days or face going to jail if you are found out to have known and not reported it by then and you get to keep nothing for your efforts -- and the up side for you in this is?---please explain to me why in gods name would I want such a horrible law placed upon me? please try to explain how its of benefit to me? --because that law makes no sense because frankly I see no good coming of it--- if laws of this type are put into place "the public" suffers and only the "state" # benefits --( # read the power brokers) , --- this sounds rather "police state / dictatorish" to me-- sorry but thats how I see it and thus I say "no thanks" --- I don't want those types of rules in "MY" country.-- and the politicans of MY COUNTRY who elected by me to serve the will of the people ( not enslave or steal from them AS YOUR TYPE LAW DOES) best not try to plam such "garbage" off as good laws on me, because I know BS when I hear it.---Ivan

 

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[CanadianTrout]

I sent your comments into the agency RGecy. Hope it helps or they even read it considering I'm Canadian and do not live in FLA.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Ivan, you missed my point : In Aussie land, the law on Salvage is wrong !!!! I thought you may be interested? so you didn't feel
so hard done by.
I do support the small salvages not the big players like Odyssey !! All government's suck mate !
So vote them out of office.
I will hopfully be in Florida in august 2009, maybe you can take me for a dive, hopfully not a drowning ?
Best of luck,you have a lot of support.
Ossy

 

[billinstuart]

The state nazis are simply overstepping their bounds. Floridas submerged lands are owned by the state "for the use and enjoyment" of the public. They are now infringing on these rights. While it's admirable to try to protect our archeological heritage, mother nature isn't complying. Left alone, these shipwrecks will disappear forever. The state has neither the manpower or resources to properly care for them. The same for items over 50 years old lying around.

I wrote to the state website. I'm also gonna visit our local state congressman personally. Don't hesitate to seek out your local state representative..input to the board directly from an elected official in high office wields alot of weight.

Bill

 

[Trez]

I sent .....
I have a 10 Gal. hat.
I have hope....
"They" are trying to pass this s**t rule.....

Let' see what ends up in my hat.

Trez

 

[signumops]

What I sent...

Sirs:

Regarding your proposed changes to rule 1A-31:

I am against any rules or regulations that would hinder Florida’s responsible historical shipwreck salvors from their continued recovery of treasures and artifacts, such as the current proposed rules. “Commerce” here, is the key word, and commerce is guaranteed under every doctrine of free trade in these United States, and particularly in Florida where each person is guaranteed a right to work, without interference from unions and/or government. We are each entitled, under Federal and State law to create wealth through our labor where no transgression of criminal law or civil infringement occurs. Heretofore, no such crime is inferred by commercial salvage and the nature of marine salvage is such that, in and of itself, it is a profession long recognized as a common trade in Florida. You do not have the authority to declare commercial salvage as anything other than what it is, to wit: the right of free men to profit from the spoils of shipping.

I know that Florida’s private sector salvors have done an excellent job of recovering and preserving our maritime heritage, to the direct benefit of the public and at little cost to the taxpayers and should be allowed to continue with as little interference as possible. Rule 1A 31 does not do this, and, in fact, is plainly nothing more than a bureaucratic ruse to make law where none exists, a function reserved for our legislators, not the charge of our various enforcement agencies, such as the BAR/DHR.

I do not want my tax dollars used by state archaeologists to dive on shipwrecks. The private sector salvors have done a great job, using their own money, with Florida getting the benefits by receiving 20% of the conserved artifacts and treasures recovered. Your new rule changes would seek to replace free enterprise with opportunities for artisans who would practice their craft at my expense, when it is impractical and unnecessary. While Amendment One may have left your agency high and dry financially, now is not the time to redirect contracts and wealth to your friends and colleagues. In view of recent examples on the national stage as I write this, I think it is abundantly clear to all that government can not run private enterprise without subornation to one degree or another. I would have you recall your difficulties in the past with NAGPRA as one instance where government overstepped itself with an eye toward self-interests. You, the BAR/DHR, would be “government” in this case. Frankly, if you insist on pursuit of this effete, snobbish, and thinly disguised plot to fill your own pockets under the cover of your office, you may well destroy the very agency that provides your welfare. You are here to serve us, not the other way round.

The new rule is, on its face, a snub to working men and women because it treats commercial salvors as unworthy to receive the same due course of attention as would be afforded to universities and nonprofit organizations. For example, the turnover or response time to get permits for 1A 32 is two weeks for those entities, while commercial groups have waited months and in some cases, years. Also 1A 32 uses students, who are by definition simple neophytes as excavators while commercial enterprises must use experts (read “your recognized affiliates”).

This remark is easily proven before any arbeiter you would care to name as an independent referee in the matter. Furthermore, without any sustainable logic, you would permit university applicants to obtain search, recovery and salvage rights in their first singular application while the disparity you exercise regarding tradesmen is apparent when the process is doubled for the commercial enterprise. And, let’s not forget the obvious…NO recovery & salvage permits (unless already grand fathered in by Federal Admiralty Claims) have been issued to commercial groups in Florida for over 15 years.

Your insistence that an archaeologist be on board each salvage vessel during each and every survey and excavation is a testament to your obstinate desire for control where no control is called for. I ask you now, why I have not seen a State Agent of any sort for the last six years while engaged in salvage? Is it because the people of Florida have yet to appreciate what this expense in oversight has brought to them as taxpayers in past years? Salvors create wealth for themselves and others while, in your view, archaeologists are satisfying their own curiosity and therefore creating an interest in the public at large. You are overestimating the worth of your dogma. It generates nothing but intellectual property for your selves in the marketplace.

You now also propose that we, as private business, furnish you with more information that you can use at your leisure, without any consultation, or concern. Once again, our data is acquired at our own expense, and is not something that you can use to benefit others who are not entitled to that benefit as a favor from yourselves. Information is valuable, as you well know, seeing that your entire profession hinges upon it. The salvor’s information is a private resource, developed by the salvor, and not the property of the State, nor any person acting under color of his authority to infringe upon it. Perhaps you would consider approaching the legislature to see if they would consider buying our information outright rather than having you involved in some form of quasi-extortion.


Tyrrell L Armstrong
of
New Channel Historical Survey Group
Real 8 Co.
Doubloon Salvage
A.L. Jolly Salvage
Oceaneering Intl.
Karrwinall Diving & Salvage
Packer Diving & Salvage
Deep Sea Divers of Belle Chasse
Southern Cross
Signum Ops
Tradewinds Salvage

 

[Salvor6]

Ivan where to you get your informantion ? that the Aussie,s are not supporting you guys
You should be pointing the finger at Odyssey, they have stirred the bee hive by stealing what
does not belong to them, and I sure behind the scenes they have stirred the English as well by
sniffing around in the English channel.
Ossy

So, Ossy you have purchased stolen coins? The ones you buy from the Fishers come from the same source.

 

[Red_desert]

Ok, if anyone wants to go mass media. I once had a mass media unlimited distribution set up in my Emailwire account. If you have read my introduction in Mugs...you would know I've been through model agency training, but many years ago. Link to Mugs intro.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,142297.0.html

To make a long story short, a few years back got myself a newswire, thinking I could help models who need publicity, get it. I did do a "Benefit For The Stony Brook Pediatric AIDS Center" and links below are for the two press releases.

York Fashion Models Prepare For Fall Fashion Show
http://www.emailwire.com/release/New-York-Fashion-Models-Prepare-For-Fall-Fashion-Show.html

New York Fashion Models Are Ready To Model
http://www.emailwire.com/release/New-York-Fashion-Models-Are-Ready-To-Model.html

I also have a tear sheet from Supermodels Unlimited I'm attaching. On the right you see Stephanie Rodriguez and Raymond Anthony who were very helpful in getting these press releases together (especially Steph). This is a magazine tear sheet that was out earlier in the year.

If any of you out there are interested in mass media, let me know, I had one of these fashion show releases show up on the United Nations website. I contacted the editor at Emailwire and he remembered me, I'm good to go if I want to start up again. It is much more expensive now, but I can send out unlimited number of PRs/year. I might need a few donations though, later. We must do it now, if at all. I would need a couple salvage photos and would be nice if someone could write a rough draft, I would edit that to be media acceptable.

Here is the email from the editor.

Hi Randy,

Thank you for writing. It is nice to read from you again. Yes our
distribution is still global, but we have increased our media outlets 2 fold
since then - including TV and radio stations news sites. We have also
increased the optimization of our press releases for search engines, blogs,
and social news networks. You can now upload video clips as well.

 

[SEAHUNTER]

Red_Desert
Can you send the following press release out through your contacts. It would be very helpful to our campaign.
Seahunter


PRESS RELEASE

St. Augustine, FL – Florida’s sunken treasure hunters will square off in full force against the Florida Division of Historical Resources, the Shipwreck Exploration and Salvage Policy Council (SEASPC) announced today. The treasure hunters oppose new regulations, known as Rule 1A-31, on commercial exploration of sunken ships and recovery of artifacts, as proposed by the Division. Members will appear at a hearing scheduled for October 21, 2008 at noon in the Guana Auditorium, 505 Guana River Road, Ponte Vedra Beach, FL.
“The rule is oppressive to commercial salvors and will do nothing to prevent destruction of artifacts the public deserves a chance to see,” said John Brandon, famed Captain of the 1715 Fleet.
Taffi Fisher Abt, daughter of the late Mel Fisher, added “Only bureaucrats could produce such an expensive, complicated permit program. I’m afraid my kids won’t get to hunt for treasure. I’m fighting for future generations.”
Underwater archeologist James Sinclair, M.A., thinks the rule will impede technological innovation and make it less likely that Floridians will ever have a full picture of the state’s long maritime history. “Florida’s seabeds are assailed by storms and tides. Florida ought to take measures to encourage archeological investigation of wreck sites and careful recovery of artifacts, but this rule will discourage investment by commercial salvors which supplements the State’s meager budget. We’ll lose a huge amount of sunken history if this rule is adopted.” For years, Sinclair has urged a public-private partnership to identify and rescue this endangered resource.
SEASPC has hired Port Orange administrative attorney Mary D. Hansen to challenge the Division’s rule at the hearing. “The rule is poorly drafted, and my clients deserve better. Their livelihoods are at stake,” Hansen said.
For further information, view www.melfisher.com or contact Doug Pope at (904) 838-6619 or email him at [email protected].

 

[PyrateJim]

I've sent in my comments, cut and past above, as I do agree with them. I have also made a posting on a boating forum I am affliated with up here in Michigan. Over 5000 members strong and have asked them to send the email as well.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

So, Ossy you have purchased stolen coins? The ones you buy from the Fishers come from the same source.

Scuba stolen coins you say ! Interesting ? Stolen from whom
Ossy

 

[rgecy]

Just to make things clear, since ARRG is a sub-contractor for the 1715 fleet, the comments above were sent to me in an email from the Fishers asking everyone to send them in the state to show support. They were not written by me, but I am sure the Fishers would have no problem with me posting them in a show of support.

We really do have a very strong following of supporters. Think about it. Look at the power of the internet! We have over 28,000 members here on TNet! If we could just get 1/4 of that number to send in their comments, that would be a huge statement!

KEEP EM COMING GUYS!

Robert

 

[PhipsFolly]

Not to play moderator here guys, but please lets keep this thread civil and focused and quit the nonsensical comments (i.e. posts b/n Ossy and others)... lets pull together. Alot of great ideas and comments are coming out here... and whether this all turns out in our favor or not, I personally just want to say thanks to all who have taken the steps to fight the good fight. See you all at the meeting on Oct. 21st!!!

 

[Amona]

PhipsFolly wrote

Not to play moderator here guys, but please lets keep this thread civil and focused and quit the nonsensical comments (i.e. posts b/n Ossy and others)...

May be your meanings of this statement would be " if your post here doesn't match or agree with my statement, wishes or idea, then it should be categorize it as "nonsensical"

is it correct?

Amona

 

[hollowpointred]

message sent.

 

[rayredditch]

I´ve sent a message too ! The govenments are just out for profit, and getting 100%, the archeologists are just out to get an Indiana Jones marker on their name.

 

[Salvor6]

Ivan where to you get your informantion ? that the Aussie,s are not supporting you guys
You should be pointing the finger at Odyssey, they have stirred the bee hive by stealing what
does not belong to them, and I sure behind the scenes they have stirred the English as well by
sniffing around in the English channel.
Ossy

Ossy, from whom did Odyssey steal?

 

[Scratch]

I fired a round. Hope they hear it.

 

[indepmo]

I let my presence be known.

 

[Phantasman]

Sent. I grew up in Fla. when it was nice (50s, thru 70s). Too many silly rules and reg's made me leave, like this one. Glad to help.