1715 fleet dec 13 at cocoa - at florida historical society annual meeting

[ivan salis]

note according to terry the meeting is free and open to the public * -- Mr Terry Armstong (of the book "rainbow chasers" ) and I will be there, I am discussing the 1715 fleet and the possible general whereabouts of the 4 missing vessels of the fleet * -- my focus during the event will be speaking about my research and thoughts on the matter and why I think what I think and what facts and factors back it up --- its fairly well known that I think that there were 4 vessels that broke away from the main fleet and headed northward before the main storm hit the fleet wrecking 7 vesssels in the "known" locations -- I think rex has possibly found one of the missing 4 (off melborne) leaving 3 unaccounted for still. -- Ivan

* the vessels nao san migual and the french prize galera class vessel "el ciervo" (the stag) and 2 "patache" class vessels according to written accounts --- the san miguel was hauling tobacco and the french prize 96 tons of brasil wood -- the 2 pataches ? cargo ---research on going as to which ones and cargo carried.

 

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[billinstuart]

Re: 1715 fleet dec 13 at cocoa beach - at florida historical society annual meet

Open to the public? How much? Gotta wear shoes to the event?

 

[ivan salis]

Re: 1715 fleet dec 13 at cocoa beach - at florida historical society annual meeting

irs a dog and pony show but this one willl be better than most of the old tired ones you see ---its being done for florida historical society members but after checking with terry hes says it open to the public --so ya'll come on down folks--fairly sure shoes are required -- so I'll have to get a pair.

 

[SebastianSam]

Re: 1715 fleet dec 13 at cocoa beach - at florida historical society annual meeting

Sir: where are these 7 "known" locations? Do you know the actual names of the ships that rest at these locations (as opposed to identifying names)?

If that leaves 4 shipwrecks unknown, then you seem fairly certain there were just 11 ships in the fleet (other than the Grifon)?

The Spanish had a constant fleet of "guard" ships patrolling the area, in order to protect and escort the fleets from pirates (Armada de Barlovento) as they sailed along the Bahama Channel. Any chance some of them were wrecked in the same hurricane of 1715 and have been mistaken for a Tierra Firme or New Spain shipwrecks?

Respectfully, Sam

 

[Salvor6]

Re: 1715 fleet dec 13 at cocoa beach - at florida historical society annual meeting

Sam, we have been through this before. Look here for the names of all 7 "known" wrecks, their location and manifest: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,144954.0.html

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Re: 1715 fleet dec 13 at cocoa beach - at florida historical society annual meeting

I still say that there are 5 still missing, unless the one near Melbourne Beach can be confirmed, then there would be four still missing.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,36779.0.html
and/or
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,97401.0.html

 

[ivan salis]

Re: 1715 fleet dec 13 at cocoa beach - at florida historical society annual meeting

as "guard ships" those vessel would not have been carrying treasure (they only patrolled the local area and thus did not go the treasure loading ports) --the 7 treasure baring vessels that are massed together in a rather small overall area are regarded by most as the bulk of the 1715 fleet vessels and by most are refered to as the "known" wrecks-- there were 11 vessels in the fleet (besides the griffon) according to several valid historical sources.

I base my thoughts and ideals on historical accounts of eyewitness and other historically valid information .

now I will grant you that of course other vessels have wrecked in that area as well -- some from differant time frames--- one was treasure baring vessel from much earlier and has been IDed as such

 

[SebastianSam]

Re: 1715 fleet dec 13 at cocoa beach - at florida historical society annual meeting

Ivan wrote: as "guard ships" those vessel would not have been carrying treasure (they only patrolled the local area and thus did not go the treasure loading ports

Exactly my point. So how would these ships be distinguished from the couple of 1715 ships that were only carrying tobacco or logwood, and no treasure?

There were many more than 11 or 12 ships sailing up the Bahama Channel on July 31st, 1715.

Do some research on the Armada de Barlovento (In relation to the Golden Age of Piracy)...you will be amazed.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: 1715 fleet dec 13 at cocoa beach - at florida historical society annual meeting

easy the achive records* of the enquest held on the lost fleet --the pilot major of the fleet that was aboard Ubilla's ship stated that the day before the storm hit that these 4 vessels departed the fleet and were on a more northerly track . ******thus they were not in the same general area as the remaining 7 vessels when the storm stuck --he answered this to the question ---where are the other missing vessels? ( my thoughts * they were later hit by the storm or the one following shortly afterward and sank more northerly than the others.)

oh I sure there were other vessels besides the fleet vessels out there --but all of the treasure fleet had some amounts of gold on them (smuggling was heavy and no major fleet of ships had been to spain in 4 years --a lot of "backlog" to get cleared away) --the local patrol boats were not headed to spain so why put anything on them? --even the 1715 fleet vessels listed a plain jane cargo types --- most likely had large amounts of smuggled gold and personnal wealth items aboard them. (items that "guard ships" would not have had)

 

[signumops]

Re: 1715 fleet dec 13 at cocoa beach - at florida historical society annual meeting

Yo ho ho and whoa whoa whoa!!!
First, the dog and pony show is at the Florida Historical Society at 435 Brevard Ave. in Cocoa, not Cocoa Beach. It begins at 2 pm. This is THE Florida Historical Society for the whole state of Florida. Their archives and library are located in the old Federal Building in Cocoa.

It is certainly open to the public and it is free. No charge. I was asked to appear, based strictly upon my authorship with Tommy Gore of "The Rainbow Chasers In The Great Florida Treasure Hunt", which many members of the forum already have read, but, was on sale at the FHS "unofficially" because it is not an FHS publication. Not completely their style of archaeological moper dopery.

So far as I know, Tommy will not be there, but George Biggles might, and I am hoping that some of dive hands and contractors across the decades will be there. I am going to do a rundown of the 1715 events and I invited Ivan to speak because he has stuck to his research and has info about some of the remaining wrecks.

I am particularly going to point out where I KNOW at least one of the missing boats lays, and plan to have Randy Andrews there with his silver cup and OMJ cob. I am also bringing red stone ballast, which, incidentally, was supposed to be the title of this shindig ... "The Redstone Wrecks". I will have a wideband live connection to the internet so we can make use of the wreck mashup on www.signumops.com and will bring some digital maps along with a 60 slide powerpoint show.

Now, I am the speaker, but, I would really like it if some of you hands came on deck, and we could identify you to the crowd, many of whom are simply laypersons who live in the area and are curious since they have heard so much over the years. I am not there to B.S. anybody, but, if you have two bits, we would love to hear it, if you have the guts to stand behind what you say. I am bringing this whole story to the public where they can interrogate me and Ivan at will. So I might be an MC of sorts, but will facilitate the whole presentation with the directive that we do NOT politicize issues between salvors, coin-shooters and the academics and archaeologists. The public is not really interested in those arguments at the moment. They want to hear about 'treasure', believe me... that's all there is to it.

Flip flops OK. Please do not show up with grog and check your pistols at the door.

Some topics:

early recoveries
News Cut
Higgs Site
Rouse proclamations
fleet count per Duro, Petersen, Gore, Wagner and others
Fisher contractors
Admiralty years
State abandonment
Cannons, anchor locations and site designations
rumored locations like Durham site, and Ruth bilander wrecks
Money Walk, Chuck's
Volusia and MILA possibilities


Terry Armstrong sends

 

[ivan salis]

thanks terry for filling in the details of the meeting for the folks -- I'm very happy to do this show with you--thanks for the invite to co host -- I'm honored that you think so much of my research to ask me to show my stuff off. Ivan

 

[PyrateJim]

Does anyone plan on recording the meeting or does the society record it anyway? Whether it is the whole thing or Ivan and Terry's presentation. Being stuck up here in Detoilet (Detroit), I would like to get a copy of whatever recording is made for my personal viewing pleasure. Sure would like to hear what these two great researchers/men have to say. (I'm covering costs of course... tape copying/shipping)

Thanks

 

[scubatreasure]

sorry i can't make it but i know it will be great. Also ,Ivan being the great tactition that you are,not to take anything away from you Mr. Armstrong, but i've come to know Ivan thru several long conversations late at nite in chat over a couple a drinks and well just wanted to say to you both , don't forget to tactfully interject the current state of affairs that we are in with regards to trying to find this stuff without getting in trouble or without becomeing pirates ourselves. At the last meeting you attended Ivan i heard that you were amazing the way you were able to interject ...at the right time...the part about the potential for tourism to be hurt by restricting certain activity....good luck men and god speed...............................Limo Bob

 

[ivan salis]

ah yes using the T word -- (tourism) ---I tactfully stated that if folks can not come and try their luck at finding a bit of spanish shipwreck booty on florida coast --due to the 500 yard no salvage clause around public beaches and parks that they wanted to enact as part of the bill that these tourist just might go else where where the folks are more "freindly" about allowing them to detect --- and that that could cost the state of florida a lot of money. (you gotta make things in "their" interest -- ie they are going to "lose" something $$$$ tourist income (once stated that way the asst sec of the state hustled ove to wheeler whispered a few select words in his ear and BINGO --HE SAYS WELL THAT IS A PROBLEM WE'LL HAVE TO PULL THAT OUT OF THE RULES--they could care less if you lose rights or its a pain to you -- but if it hurts their cash cow now thats differant)

 

[diverlynn]

I hope to come down for this. Who else plans on showing?

Diverlynn

 

[wreckdiver1715]

I would come if I could, but I am currently out of the country.

 

[billinstuart]

looks like I'm gonna wander up there from Stuart.

 

[Dirt Fishin Dale]

That's almost 15 minutes from here. I think I can drive that far.
See ya there

 

[bikerlawyer]

I'm gonna try to make it, if I can get my kid to do her homework first!

 

[Dirt Fishin Dale]

I'm gonna try to make it, if I can get my kid to do her homework first!

Homework on a Saturday?
Bummer