USA Today Article-Gold rush: The battle over sunken treasure

[Red_desert]

Here is one more article about us "looters" who are intentionally trying to destroy Archaeology.

"In this May 2007 photo, Odyssey's Remotely Operated Vehicle is recovered from the seabed after recovering coins from the Colonial period shipwreck "Black Swan."
Enlarge image Enlarge Odyssey Marine Exploration/AP


"Shipwrecks! Treasure! Gold, gold, gold! The hallmarks of treasure-hunting are the stuff of adventure stories, more than fun enough to make archaeologists, who are mounting increasing complaints against the pillaging of sunken ships, seem like wet blankets."

An editorial in Archaeology magazine, published by the Archaeological Institute of America, charges that "the Discovery Channel is cashing in on the business of systematically looting shipwrecks "in teaming up with Odyssey."

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/columnist/vergano/2009-01-25-sunken-treasure_N.htm

 

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[ivan salis]

oh yah deep water wrecks in hundreds of feet of water -- like an archie would ever get enough funding to even find a wreck like that much less explore it . -- odyssesy at about $40,000 a day in cost is out there "running lines " mapping out likely locations, if archies CAN DO IT then why in the hell aren't they ? .

easy because they can't use tax payor money to compete in a wild goose chase against better equipted , more experanced "private" bussiness persons nor should they--- and since archies can not MORALLY sell anything they find -- it a one way money funnel --all $$$ out with no $$$ money in (thus it can never even pay its own way ,much less turn a profiet) --- this three legged dog is a sure loser from the start (thus no one in their right f'n mind would want to put money into a "money pit" like that) I for one do not want them to use my tax money in such a reckless manner (because if I want to invest in a shipwreck project, I want at the very least the possiblity of some return on my "investment" if they find and recover it )--- deep water wreck asset recovery is a "bussiness" not a pastime for archies to poke about for six years on one site burning up tax dollars.

now so long as they do not get in the way --let the archies tag along and see what they can see and learn what they can during the recovery process. --- because its the only way they will ever see the wrecks .

 

[Red_desert]

Ivan, you sound about like some of the comments people left on that article. I didn't see any sympathy in those comments for the Archies.

Have to agree with the public opinion in general in their responses. I thought the article was poorly written, good thing for us. Sounded more like a politicion running a negative campaign ad. Sometimes people who are angry when they write, don't make much sense to anyone.

 

[jeff k]

I liked this comment.

"We should contract the Odyssey crew to discover where the hell all the TARP and bailout money has been sunk. At least two trillion dollars has been handed out by the Federal Reserve to players unknown and who knows where all the rest is going to end up. If they find it they should get a high percentage of it. Go deep!"

 

[sabre15]

Ivan is dead on, I totally agree with you!

 

[Galleon Hunter]

"oh yah deep water wrecks in hundreds of feet of water -- like an archie would ever get enough funding to even find a wreck like that much less explore it . -- odyssesy at about $40,000 a day in cost is out there "running lines " mapping out likely locations, if archies CAN DO IT then why in the hell aren't they ? ."

We are!

Ivan, I'm an archie and I am out there finding wrecks and exploring them. Please don't lump us all together. We put the funding together to do a Deep Wrecks project last year and went to sites we had found using an $8 million AUV, we leased a 210-foot vessel from the Government and used a state-of-the art ROV to explore the wrecks. We are talking deep water, (upwards of 6,000 feet) and projects costing nearly $100,000 a day.

To say that archaeologists are NOT conducting deepwater archaeology is not an accurate statement. (I do agree with you however that the equipment, technology etc...is out of the budget of the vast majority)

Darren in NC has a copy of the report from the wrecks that were found, identified and mapped during an earlier survey.

 

[ivan salis]

I was unaware of any govt archies doing deep water research on wrecks-- since deep water wreck research is very very costly ( tax payor money for funding?) and with any recovery the archie code of ethics would prohibit the sell of anything recovered to recoup the cost of exploration ( in plain english --the cost would be staggering and thus it could NEVER turn a profiet fiscally) plus most deep water wrecks are in international waters where no single nation has any "claim" to the seabed and whats on it. ( sort of first to "arrest" the wreck gets it )

I do stand corrected if you are doing deep water research * and say I'm sorry -- now with that said -- clearly the fact your doing it is not that well known yet --

I know the govt plans to do more in the area of deep sea reseach * current bills in congress tip me off to that fact -- but I was unaware that it was occuring now -- so govt funded people (archies) are competing against the "private sector" in open international waters for discovery and control of deep water wreck sites "outside" of their territorial waters .

in effect a "war" on the private deep water recovery bussiness has been declared (but instead of cannons send them to the bottom as in days of old -- it'll be fiscal cannon balls that do the job --as the govt has basically unlimited funds and once the sites are claimed by the govt ---the govt doesn't have to do any recovery and so they just run to the next spot return when and IF they wish)

hummm thats very interesting and who's funding this project ?

 

[Galleon Hunter]

I'm not a government achie...I work for a private company specializing in maritime survey work. Most of our work is for the oil and gas exploration industry. Before any drilling rigs, wells or pipeline can be put in, Shell, Exxon, BP etc. must do an archaeological survey of the area to make sure they are not trying to place a pipeline, etc. over a shipwreck. If there is a historic shipwreck, it would do nobody any good to destroy it by putting a pipeline on top of it, and by the same token the oil and gas companies don't want damage their own equipment. They are required by law to conduct these surveys. If there is a shipwreck, an avoidance area is placed around it, and the proposed piplline, rig, etc. must be re routed to go around it. If it is something that we deem historically significant we could recommend that a further investigation take place. The latest in technology is employed to do these surveys as accurately and cost effective as possible. In deep water (5,000 feet for example) using conventional sidescan, magnetometer towed system, to sink the fish to that depth would require so much cable that the turn around at the end of the search line would take 5 hours, an AUV can make the same turn in 5-10 minutes. So a much larger area can be explored in a shorter amount of time. Thus saving money, still these cost are enormous.

In the case of the discovery and documentation of the German U-Boat U-166, found during such a survey, the follow-up project was a joint project sponsored by Shell, BP, NOAA, the MMS etc.

It is good publicity for those companies.

 

[ivan salis]

ok your a "private sector" person then in effect -- since your rearch is privately funded , and sometimes you run across things in your work --fair enough * no problems there.

what I have "issues" with --is tax payor money based archies --who go out of their counties "territorial" waters looking for ship wrecks in international waters to "arrest" -- of course once found and "claimed" they move on to the next one ---and of course they do not "work" em -- they just find and "claim" them one after another "legally" keeping anyone else away until such a time as when and if they feel like or can afford to "play" with "their" wrecks --

and of course they can crush the "private sector" by claiming up the very wrecks the "private sector" deep water asset recovery vessels need to make a living -- since the govt types do not have to ever turn a profiet * nor can they as their "code of ethic's" prohibits selling of anything recovered off a wreck site, and are tax payor funded they in effect have "unlimited fiscal cannon balls" to blow a hole in the "private sectors" bottom line.

 

[sticksboards]

a archie is nothing more than a th'er with government funding

 

[ScubaDude]

a archie is nothing more than a th'er with government funding

I'm glad somebody said it. They have the same interests. As soon as people figure out that treasure hunting doesn't usually involve getting wealthy we'll all be better off.

So Odyssey spends $40k a day(Is that just for the Explorer or their fleet, likely just the one boat), plus legal fees, conservation, admin, more legal fees, rented jets for moving coins and crews, more legal fees, marketing, research, employee benefits, insurance, Ambien CR, Republic coin storage, Starbucks, Royal Merchant coin storage, etc. How far will $500m pretax (at top dollar for the coins), actually get you after the current debt is paid, and the legal issues settled?

I wonder how many coins from the Republic are still in boxes in a warehouse?

It's starting to look like most treasure hunts, expenses exceeding funds, generate more funds, more expenses, more debt.

The other reality here is that without them and others not much gets done without big bucks.

 

[sabre15]

I wish more of them were like Galleon Hunter, at least he sees where most of us are coming from and is willing to acknowledge our profession. Most State Archies would rather we all just pack up and walk away, they probably would like to see us all dead actually. If you have the financial backing as an Archie, the more power to ya, just as long as it isn't taxpayer money!

hey galleon Hunter are you guys hiring?