1744 HMS Victory wreck found

[Moe (fl)]

http://kdka.com/watercooler/HMS.Vict....2.923711.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,486387,00.html

[Salvor6]

Old news Moe. Its all over Treasurenet.

[VOC]

Well done Odyessy

(Scubasalvor, this is another wreck announced yesterday Saturday 31st Jan 2009)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...m-Channel.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesi...-victory-wreck

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5635745.ece

[ivan salis]

ah the legend wreck of "treasure quest" fame -- 1744 the hms victory ---- dates ending in 4 seems to be lucky for them ---they also got a "french" vessel as well -- (the ships bell had fluer de lis on it and a french name on it and the date of 1774 as well).

[Moe (fl)]

Scubasalvor,

This was published today by the news networks. Perhaps you are referring to a more recent wreck.

HH!
Moe

[Salvor6]

Topic #489 posted by Jeff K. Same ship. There is also another post in the "Treasure in the News" section. Same ship, HMS Victory, 1744.

[rgecy]

Hey, I announced this late Thursday night under the "Treasure Quest" post! Sabre and I knew right after the episode was over! What took you guys so long?

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...tml#msg1545394

[sabre15]

Yeah, everybody else was sleeping while relying on their DVR's, while Robert and I were doing our duties as true pirates and studying our fellow pirates at work!

[sabre15]

Robert, don't take offense to the Pirate thing, as we are all pirates on this forum according to the UN

[rgecy]

ARRG!

[mariner]

I am not clear how and why the Victory sank. It is clearly a sovereign vessel, and therefore exempt from salvage, but should it also be a war grave site?

Incidentally, I am very impressed by Odyssey's approach, so far, but how can they think about recovering its gold cargo without disturbing the remains of the 1,100 British seamen who died on her?

Mariner

[ivan salis]

she was lost in a storm * in 1744 --it was the king of the seas at the the time --a 100 gun battleship with massive 42 lbers ( only 3 vessels of the age carried such huge cannons) and a crew of 1100 men -- she went down in a storm carrying a large amount of gold money as cargo -- as an "english warship vessel" only england can give the ok to salvage her (if they so chose to)-- since she did not go down "in battle" the "war grave" part is not in play.---- with 1 billion at stake , and it not being lost in battle but rather as an "accident" england will most likely allow salvage --- they will of course will still require that they treat the dead with respect and work around them not bothering them any more than they have to , to get the job done..

the area that the HMS VICTORY wreck site is in is a heavily used bottom fishing trawler area -- which over time will totally wipe the site out. --better to harvest what you can for the sake of history now.

[Saturna]

From shipwreck.net

“Rather than staying frozen in time beneath the waves, this unique shipwreck is fading fast,” warns marine archaeologist Dr. Sean Kingsley, Director of Wreck Watch International., “The Victory lies in an area of intensive trawling, and her hull and contents are being ploughed away by these bulldozers of the deep day in, day out. Leaving the Victory’s rich archaeology so vulnerable to the ravages of man is like allowing a motorway to smash straight through a historic site on land without excavating it. The archaeological recovery of the artifacts from the site should begin as soon as possible or the story of England’s most important lost man-of-war may not survive to be told.”

I kinda think anything that is going to be disturbed has already been, long ago, by these draggers. How many human remains are even extant?
Why would it be disrespectful to put these cannons and artifacts in museums. These types of operations aren't cheap, so pay Odyssey to do it and save that history.


Jay

[Salvor6]

Looks like England will give Odyssey the go-ahead to excavate. They already did for the HMS Sussex, another warship. Odyssey should exhume the human remains and give them a proper burial back in England. Thats what John Broadwater did for the Confederate soldiers found inside the Hunley.

[Voldbjerg]

Also the Edingburg was salvaged and that was a "recent" WW2 war grave.

/V

[Darren in NC]

The Hunley sub was a bit different in that it silted in like a time capsule. The human remains were preserved. I've been very impressed by how they're handling Lt. Dixon and his crewmen's remains.

The Edinburgh project was approved since Jessop's bid was for cutting and torching through a steel vessel, not smashing through with a clam sheel grab as the other bidders were proposing.

Remains on a wooden vessel are rarely found - especially in this case where the site is repeatedly disturbed already. Even so, I believe there is something honoring about being mindful of those who lost their lives - accident or battle and not simply acting like a "greedy grabber." Gov'ts typical pattern has been to return, if able, and retreive valuable cargo to put back in circulation. This has happened since the beginning of salvage - private or gov't. Times are different today and it's a fine line to respect seamen and commencing honorable salvage. In this case, to impose respect on a worthy pursuit while allowing all others to rip apart the wrecksite seems hypocritical. My hope is that it can be salvaged respectably.

[ivan salis]

since theres really no way to stop the deep water fishing trawlers in "open international waters" the site will get destroyed over time --- best to harvest the site while you can -- place any bodies / bones found in a shore side grave with proper honors due to them .

[mariner]

--better to harvest what you can for the sake of history now.

Sorry, Ivan,

I forgot for a moment that Odyssey are primarily in it for the history and the archaeology!

Mariner

[Saturna]

You may also have forgotten about the insane costs occurred in this type of deep water exploration and recovery.

Note that, as always, the government had made zero attempt to find this ship themselves. It's not like Odyssey is going to trash the site and sell all the artifacts behind everyone's back. At least they are dealing with a more rational government this time.

If not for Odyssey, or someone like them, this ship would never have been found.


Would that be better?

[sabre15]

Excellent points, Scuba, Ivan, Saturna! I also agree, before trawlers ruin the entire site, properly excavate it, bodies and all and give them a proper buriel. I think during times like these England would be happy with a half of Billion dollars put back into their economy right now! Other than the obvious, the ship being in the English channel, is their a reason so many Brits work for Odyssey and not Americans? just wondering, I thought that strange but great from a business standpoint of having English citizens excavate an English shipwreck. I wonder if Greg Stemm will give me a Job with them when they get back to the states to excavate american ships. I understand that the English are all furious we have disrupted "sacred grounds" do you think this may make it harder for the Royal Military to allow odyssey to continue?