Gold Cross with Emeralds

[old man]

Would any of you experts have any idea if it is possible to date a Spanish Wreck from a 4 inch gold cross with emeralds in it?
I realize that it isn't possible for an exact date. What I am wondering is the earliest possible date that the clergy started wearing them, if anyone knows.

 

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[Atticus Finch]

Would any of you experts have any idea if it is possible to date a Spanish Wreck from a 4 inch gold cross with emeralds in it?
I realize that it isn't possible for an exact date. What I am wondering is the earliest possible date that the clergy started wearing them, if anyone knows.

UPS it to me and I'll give you an expert opinion. I won't charge you for shipping.

Cap Z.

 

[ivan salis]

there are several ways to date old spanish jewelry --the way the stones were cut and set can help tell if its quite old --the general overall type of designs used and the method of construction varied over the years.

with lots of gold and emeralds coming out of south america , the item could have been made quite early after the spanish gained control of the area -- thus the item could have been made locally or overseas -- ( a lot depends on the type and quality of workmanship as to where it was made )--note the very finest types of jewelry were often made by oriental craftsman ---- raw goods (gold and raw stones) were sent overseas (from mexico to manila in the phillipines and beyond) and finely worked asian made gold and jewel products came back in exchange -- many finely wrought "royal items" were actually made in asia, as was the fine asian pottery products.

 

[itmaiden]

Aye, my dream find, a gold cross with Emeralds. I am still mesmerized by the one found on the Atocha.

itmaiden

Would any of you experts have any idea if it is possible to date a Spanish Wreck from a 4 inch gold cross with emeralds in it?
I realize that it isn't possible for an exact date. What I am wondering is the earliest possible date that the clergy started wearing them, if anyone knows.

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

Around 1580. Depending on the style, it could be dated more precisely and its manufacture point determined. Why a gold and emerald cross? Porcelin by comparison is extremely easy to date.

 

[Skimmer]

Hmmm.....Anyone smell bait?

 

[Darren in NC]

Not from old man, I don't. Relax, Skimmer, he's legit.

 

[old man]

Skimmer, If you must know why I'm asking. I'll tell you. I am looking for information to date a wreck. A friend of mine that Darren knows saw a gold cross with emeralds at a friends wives house. It was sent home from the Caribbean a few years ago. Her husband was arrested for not having a salvage permit for the wreck.
My friend got GPS numbers for the wreck from the wife. I am trying to research what Spanish treasure wrecks were reported lost in that area. Nothing more nothing less. I am not looking for an investor.

 

[ivan salis]

for starters ---try looking marx's shipwrecks in the americas -- nice listing of missing treasure wrecks and the general area of loss -- hear bobs putting out another more "updated" one one very soon --his healths been a bit rough lately

 

[old man]

ivan salis,
Thanks for the advice about Marx's book. I did find this on the internet after I made the first post. Looks like there are some treasure wrecks around the island. Now all I have to do is try and find the name of the one I'm looking for. I already know where 3 of these ships are located. I dove on the Pirate Ship last year just to identify it.


Investors take a plunge, to the bottom of the sea
Ever had that sinking feeling? To treasure hunter Henry Newrick, it can mean a fortune lying in wait. David Bowen reports

DAVID BOWEN

Sunday, 20 August 1995
HENRY NEWRICK is an unlikely treasure hunter. He wears a sober suit, does not own a parrot and has the air of the solid New Zealand business publisher he is. But if Caribbean Marine Recovery, the company of which he is chairman, successfully dredges enough goodies from the seabed, he will become one of the big players in a fast-growing and exotic industry.

CMR hopes to raise up to pounds 6.5m when it floats on London's Alternative Investment Market next month. Its first task, as the world's first quoted treasure- hunting company, will be to raise wrecks around the islands of Antigua and Barbuda. The islands' government has given it a five-year concession, following three years' work during which the company identified 20 wreck sites. Early prospects include a pirate vessel, two Spanish naos (early galleons), an English slave ship and HMS Griffin - all sunk in the 17th or 18th centuries.

Although an archaeologist will be aboard the recovery vessel, investors will be interested in one thing only - the value of the wrecks and their cargo. One of the naos is believed to have been carrying gold and silver, while the slaver probably has gold that would have been used to pay chiefs in Africa. But, Mr Newrick points out, almost any artefact has some value - cannon balls would make excellent doorstops, he suggests.,

 

[ivan salis]

ah I can hear the archies shuddering from here -- "historical" cannonballs for doorstops indeed. -- however as a for profiet outfit --he's gotta sell off all or at the very least most of his cut of the stuff from the wrecks to make it "profietible"for the investors

 

[Mr.Jody]

I suppose a pic is out of the question?

 

[OldGold74]

Old Man, try Claudio, he may have data on file, his name here is Vox Veritas, great news your time has paid off a legit contract in the Caribbean is rare nowadays. All the best.

 

[Panfilo]

Old Man: Appart from my interest in nautical history and shipwrecks, I'm a mining engineer and have been for the past eight years president of the Emerald Miners Association here in Colombia. We just finished setting up the worlds finest colored stone gemological laboratory which has been operational for a few months now and we can determine many aspects of an emerald, unfortunately not the age but we can determine from which country it came from and from which mine it was excavated and from what section of the mine it came from (in some of the more extensive mines) and we can historically reference when that mine was operational and thus get a basic approximation. The Chivor mine, where I worked for twelve years, for instance, was the earliest mined by the Spaniards. The renowned Muzo mine, after being hidden by the indians, was operated later for quite sometime. The Atocha emeralds for instance we determined came from the Muzo mine which was in operation in 1622 and specifically we determined those emeralds came from the Tequendama mine in the Muzo district. Maybe this can be of some help, maybe not.
Panfilo

 

[mariner]

Panfilo,

That is very interesting. How does one go about accessing your analysis service ?

Mariner

 

[Panfilo]

Mariner:
You can access the Lab at http://www.corporacioncdtec.com and the person to speak with is Dr. Juan Jose Cicua if you speak Spanish, he is a very nice and knowledgeable person. If you don't speak Spanish there is an English speaking technician who can help you. This is a government sponsored project that the Colombian emerald trade association, FEDESMERALDAS has put together to give it maximum credibility. The certificate of origin that would be the one required runs in the order of US$150.00 and would take 24 hours to run. If you need anything else let me know and I'll be glad to assist.
Panfilo

 

[divewrecks]

Panfilo,

I am just curious, does the laboratory analysis consist only of visual methods (magnified of course) or is there some kind of light diffraction or other elemental surface analysis? Thanks for making mention of your service.

Stan

 

[mariner]

Panfilo,

Thanks for the information, which I will pursue shortly.

Mariner

 

[Panfilo]

The initial method we used in 1999 was minimally destructive using oxygen isotopes, not so with the new methods we have, we use Raman spectrography, near infrared and other methods that if you want to know I can send you the technical details. Here is the short version of the Science Magazine article:
http://www.cnrs.fr/cw/en/pres/compress/emeralds.html
Panfilo

 

[deepsix47]

Talk to Emeralds International in Key West. They will be able to tell you where the Emeralds came from as well as well as an approximate date, They will also be able to give you an appraisal.

Deepsix