Wreck with Gold Coins washing up on the beach.

[old man]

bobinsd, I offered this wreck to the forum as an adventure and that's how I believe it should be look at. Not as a get rich scheme, if you're interested in an adventure and leaning how to do salvage work, welcome aboard, if you're looking to get rich, I would advise against the working the project. This wreck is for everyone that ever dreamed of an underwater adventure and wants to work hard and have fun.

 

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[diverj]

Old Man, I would like to thank you for sharing this imformation with all . I think this is an excelent opportunity that you are providing to learn to do salvage work, this is a major intrest to me, and likley many others. Good Luck !

Jeff

 

[old man]

Jeff, Welcome to the forum, I hope that you will join us in our quest. I am not the one that you should be thanking though, each and everyone one of you that participate will be the ones that will make or break this project and making this an adventure not only for the people that work the project, but also for the many that won't be able to actively work the project because of other commitments, but will none the less live the adventure vicariously though the people on site. It will equally be up to us to provide a frequent update to the forum, so that the others can live the adventure through our progress.

 

[bobinsd]

Easy, Old Man...I was just responding to a previous post by Darren mentioning ROI and I asked a legit question that any investor should ask. I've already mentioned investing in the project and will consider it further once the modes of participation are better defined.
I've received a "distribution" from another venture in 2005 and was hoping to get some free tax advice.

 

[old man]

bobinsd, Sorry if I misconstrued your post. I don't want to offend anyone, but I also wanted to get the point across that this should be looked at as an adventure for all, not as a get rich quick expedition.( If you want one of those, contact me off line and I will point you in that direction with a company or two that I know what wrecks they are going after this year.) If someone is interested in investing in this project, I'm not the one you want to speak to, contact Darren or RGecy. I am only interested in helping the forum live an adventure, whether it's by participating or vicariously though the people on site. Happy hunting to all.

 

[Darren in NC]

Hey Bob,

I don't offer any free tax advice - you need to consult legal counsel for that. And the great ones are not free

Here's an excerpt from the VA GOLD thread elsewhere on the forum. It's regarding the confusion of non-profits. I hope it helps...

It may help to clarify what we mean by "nonprofit." First of all, the first thing people assume is that there's "no money in the deal" for those involved. That's the single most misunderstood idea about nonprofits. It doesn't mean that at all. It doesn't mean we can't get anything out of it - compensation or artifacts. We can. The only thing that separates a nonprofit from a for-profit company is that payroll distribution can't exceed roughly 33% of overall budget. That's it. Honest to God. You don't have to support any charity to be a nonprofit - ever. We don't have to give anything to a museum or university if we choose not to. BUT (a big but) it is not our decision what happens to the finds whether we were nonprofit or not. That is up the the Virginia Institute of Marine Science and the Virginia Marine Resources Commission. THEY will decide whether we keep anything or compensate us for fair value.

Two people ultimately make the rules in a for-profit company. The law and the investors. That translates to the state of VA and those who invest the most. Like it or not, this won't be a democracy of forum members. Projects don't work that way. The golden rule (he who has the gold...) has and always will prevail or there will be no money for the project. Unless everyone is prepared to share the expenses equally, that's just the way it is.

The benefit to a nonprofit is that it can use its 501c3 status to receive grants and the nonprofit members decide how it is best used. That translates as us using someone else's money with us making the decisions. (end of excerpt from VA GOLD)

But in the event that someone donates a large sum, then that too translates into some of the above protocol. That's why we have to be careful about accepting any donations (since donors sometimes expect to have some say in the matters - and should). But if you get a jerk calling the shots, then everyone bails and the project is jeopardized. But I don't see any of that happening

As old man said, this will be a fun project for all, not a get-rich-quick scheme. We have no desire for tarnishing the reputation of our great hobby. All will be handled professionally and legally. Permits, archaeologists, grid layouts, documenting artifacts...the works. If you were hoping to be part of a looting gang who tore apart an old wreck to grab gold, then please don't volunteer. We don't need greedy grabbers. If you want to see how it's done like professional treasure hunters do it, them please come join us

 

[old man]

As fleamistress quoted me ( I love that name fleamistress). I am leaning towards this being a Pirate wreck because coins from 3 different countries have been found on the beach,( Actually 4, I also found an 1801 Large cent). The coins came from England, Portugal and Spain. ( Or there territories). We won't know anything else about the wreck until we start working underwater and in the archives.

 

[old man]

Sounds like everyone on site is going to eat well with 2 great cooks. Can't wait.

 

[Voldbjerg]

Old Man: I might be missing a point, but would coins from different nations not point toward a trader, taking probability into account? Maybe a contraband merchant?

Since this is my first post I should introduce myself. I'm a diving history buff from Denmark, and my pet project is a series of warships sunk 1801 just outside Copenhagen. I hope that I can contribute to the forum, but my knowledge of waters and events outside Scandinavia is very limited.

Best regards and goog luck with your project

Voldbjerg

 

[old man]

Voldbjerg,
You make a very good point. Whatever type of ship it is, buckets of coins were picked up off the each in the late 1800's by the lifesaving station members that lived on the island. We really won't know what type of ship we are dealing with until we start diving on the wreck.

 

[bobinsd]

Man, you really are OLD.

If the ship cannot be determined (it may have been salvaged shortly after sinking), is there any precedence for how the remains are treated. Anyone have any pirate salt?

 

[old man]

Can't argue with someone that knows it all. Yep common sense tells me and research shows that buckets of coins were picked up off the beach after storms for many years by the lifesaving crew on the island, in the 1800's. Yep the ship was salvaged and they recovered everything.

 

[Darren in NC]

how do you determine the "ROI" for tax purposes unless the distribution is sold. Seems very subjective.

I forgot to mention, Bob, that it is subjective...in a sense. If you bring clothes to a thrift store, they will give you a receipt. The store is not allowed to put a monetary figure on the receipt, only the items donated. Come tax time, you place the value on the clothes at whatever you feel the fair market value would be (thus, the subjective part). But when you donate cash to a church or charity, then the cash itself is not subjective and that figure is what you place on your line itemized deduction. If someone were to receive a "ROI" in this project, then they would be compensated as a contractor who is hired to do specific work, not as a donor. It would otherwise be illegal investing.

Does this make sense?

All the best,
Darren

 

[bobinsd]

I guess I should have mentioned that the "distribution" was in the form of "booty", the value of which is unknown unless I can find sales of a comparable item(s). So how do I value my "capital gain"...I think if there were no distribution I could write off 100% of the investment.

So in the event 'Virginia Gold" results in items that are distributed to investors/contributors, how are the items valued by the IRS for tax purposes? Are the rules different for non-profits?

I really don't want to extend this any further as I am getting bored re-reading my own post.

 

[RonS]

If I remember right Mel Fisher's group took a % based on the investment and or the amount of diving hours a man put in. Someone who was diving and working the wreck got a higher return. - RonS

 

[swordfish]

This sounds a lot like the wreck site known locally as the "Faithful Steward". The wreck is located about a 100 yards off shore, 1.5 miles North of Indian River Inlet. This is in Delaware not Virginia.
There is an old New York Times article that describes Life Guard Station personal picking up buckets of coins here after storms in the 1800's. Locals still find copper coins here after storms. There are also documented reports of Spanish Pillar Dollars and the occasional gold coin. Is this the site "Old Man is referring to?
Lots of current here when the tides change.

 

[Cablava]

Faithful Steward

Recently, John Kleeberg has shown the ship known as The Faithful Steward, which left Londonderry in Northern Ireland on July 9, 1785, was carrying a large quantity of illegal counterfeit British halfpence to America along with some 249 passengers when it sank off the coast of Maryland. This is one of many examples of a legitimate operation carrying illegal coppers in order to make extra profits. Kleeberg has also suggested, based on this example and other hoards of counterfeits found in Ireland (as the 206 counterfeit halfpence found near Jonesborough, County Armagh, now in the Ulster Museum), that some British and Irish counterfeit halfpence imported to America may have been made in Ireland rather than England.

 

[Cablava]

Faithful Steward

The Faithful Steward, bound from Londonderry, Ireland to Philadelphia with 249passengers, ran aground near Indian River Inlet, Delaware on the night of September 1,1785. When a sounding was taken, it was found the ship was only in 4 fathoms ofwater, though there was not the slightest appearance of land. Every exertion was usedto run the vessel off shore but all failed.On the morning of September 2, the ship was near Indian River, about four leagues tothe southward of Cape Henlopen. Every effort was made to save the unhappy sufferers,who had remained on the deck during the night.The ship was only 100 yards from the shore. On the evening of Sept. 2, the ship broketo pieces. The long boats that had been put into the water drifted ashore before theycould be manned. All relief was cut off except by swimming ashore or getting on piecesof the wreck.Of the 249 passengers, only 68 were saved. The inhabitants from Lewistown came tothe beach to plunder the bodies of their goods. Of the 100 women and children aboard,only 7 were saved. Among the cargo aboard the ship were 400barrels of half pennies and gold rose guineas.

 

[old man]

Someone did their homework. I have been to this location to metal detect on the beach when I wasn't so OLD. However, the site of the Faithful Steward is not located on a barrier island and is in Delaware. The wreck we are going to dive on is in Virginia.

 

[Cablava]

Delaware is a relic hunter's paradise! Whether you're hunting dry land or underwater, Delaware offers a rich colonial, revolutionary war, and civil war history - waiting for you to rediscover.

If you've ever thought about diving, here are a few leads for some of the many shipwreck and beach hunting sites on Delaware's coast:

September 1 1785, the Faithful Steward, bound from Ireland to Philadelphia with 249 passengers, ran aground near Indian River Inlet, Delaware. Cargo was described as 400 barrels of half pennies and gold guineas. In the 1930s, workers from the Lewes CCC camp reportedly discovered "bucket loads" of silver dollars and gold coins on the beach. Find the beach or the CCC camp!
October 28 1802, The Juno went down with nearly 1,000 total passengers and 23 tons of silver on board. The last confirmed location was moving north at 33 degrees latitude along the east coast. Two days from that position, the ship was never seen again. (Still not found)
July 10 1864, 30 miles off the Capes of the Delaware River, the Union mail steamer Electric Spark, from New York bound for New Orleans, is scuttled by CSS Florida.
1864, off the Capes of the Delaware River, the Olustee sinks the bark Empress Theresa, and schooners A.J. Bird, and E.F. Lewis.