Nice Bell Found at Shipwreck Site...with pictures.

[ScubaFinder]

Lookey what we found.......not completely sure of anything yet. Seems a little big for a ships bell, but I've only seen a few actual examples. Could have been a church bell carried as cargo too. Lubos is working on it, so we should have some good info soon.

Inscription reads "IHS MARIA ANNODE 1639" and bell is 14.5" tall with a base diameter of 11.5" and a top diameter of 6". Found on a wrecksite west of Puerto Plata on the north coast of the Dominican Republic. Anyone have any info or guesses...we have ours, but we always love sharing with you guys and hearing your opinions too.

Enjoy!

 

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[mamabear]

I think I'd have a heart attack right then & there! What a find! keep us posted w/ the info.

 

[Shiverme]

Nice find! Check out this link with a similar bell:
http://www.qaronline.org/rcorner/bellreport.htm

Good Luck!

Lookey what we found.......not completely sure of anything yet. Seems a little big for a ships bell, but I've only seen a few actual examples. Could have been a church bell carried as cargo too. Lubos is working on it, so we should have some good info soon.

Inscription reads "IHS MARIA ANNODE 1639" and bell is 14.5" tall with a base diameter of 11.5" and a top diameter of 6". Found on a wrecksite west of Puerto Plata on the north coast of the Dominican Republic. Anyone have any info or guesses...we have ours, but we always love sharing with you guys and hearing your opinions too.

Enjoy!

 

[aquanut]

Great find Jason.!
And Shiverme. that is a particularly appropriate link. Good going!
Aquanut

 

[Mackaydon]

Did you find any foundry stamps on the bell? The foundry stamps might lead you to foundry records which, in turn, may lead you to the buyer.

 

[Panfilo]

Scubafinder:
First off the IHS symbol is Latin for “Iesus Hominum Salvator” meaning Jesus Savior of Men which was the monogram adopted by the Jesuits after san Ignatius Loyola in 1541. The other interesting fact is that “anno” is in Italian as in Latin it is “annus” and in Portuguese it’s “ano” and in Spanish “año”. My Latin is a bit rusty, perhaps they also used “anno” in Latin aside from “annus”. I would conclude that in all likelihood your fine bell was going to some church the Jesuits were founding. If you know the appropriate region it was found in you will certainly find the church it might have been destined to.
Panfilo

 

[Trond]

Wow, what a beautiful find.

 

[ScubaFinder]

Thanks Shiverme..I saw that link 20 times last night in my searches, but kept thinking it wasn't what I was looking for...it's the QAR. LOL Now I know why it held such a prominent place in my search results.

Don, there are no foundry or makers marks visible on the bell, believe me I gave myself a head-ache trying to squint and make something out of any little scratch or pit on the thing...it's just not there anywhere.

Panfilo...the other thing that got me thinking about the Jesuits was the little sun mark above IHS. It is simply half of one of the stamps used to make the cross, but it certainly follows Jesuit tradition of the time. Based on where she was found I have to think she was outbound too. Most Spanish ships in between Puerto Plata and Monte Cristi were on their way to Havana. :-)

 

[wwwtimmcp]

I did a latin translation at free online latin to english translations and came up with ihs "husband yearly produce" . maybe it was a tax ship. or merchant nao. our early coast guard ships were known as the revenue cutters. very cool find no matter what, thanks for sharing.

 

[elle]

Panfilo...hats off to you...we think alike!

Jas...your bell is A JESUIT BELL.

IHS is indeed the seal of the Society of Jesus...the monogram for the "Most Holy Name of Jesus"..."Jesus, Savior of Men" in Latin.

Your answer is clearly marked in your picture of the bell.
The IHS is over the LARGE cross...the "H" being very close to being right over the cross. The makers of this bell did their best to try to center the "H."
The Jesuit monogram usually has the cross over the "H" or through the "H," but in this case, the "H" was to be above the cross.
This is your indication that the bell holds the Jesuit symbol...thus...most likely being a religious bell going somewhere.

I know this because the Jesuits were very particular in how they marked their symbols. A cross over AN "O" means a "MISSION" which stands also for the CROSS ON A HILL where Jesus died.

Your IHS ...the "H" over the CROSS ...........is your Jesuit symbol.

Laura

 

[elle]

And I forgot one other important detail...as you already mentioned Jas...THE SUN.

The Jesuits use the SUN mark as the symbol for Jesus Christ. They believe that Christ is the Light and the Life.
The SUN drawings around the cross....and the half sun over the "H" is a clear indication that this is a Jesuit bell.

Laura

 

[RELICDUDE07]

What a great deed you guys did finding and recovering that bell for everyone to see...She has nice curve's Mission bell ?

 

[Salvor6]

Jason this could be one of Gen. Juan de Campos wrecks from the 1641 fleet. They left Havana on Sept. 28 and took the Old Bahama Channel route back to Spain. Thirty-one vessels left and were hit by a hurricane scattering them all over the place. The Almiranta drifted for 2 weeks and finally wrecked on Silver Banks. Thats the one that Burt Webber found, the N.S. de la Concepcion. Your wreck could be one of the smaller naos from the fleet.

 

[elle]

Your bell was not likely cast on Hispaniola...as the Jesuits arrived later there than Lima and some of the other provinces in New Spain. The Dominicans and Franciscans were already established in Santo Domingo but the Jesuits began their preaching closer to 1700 as their first monastery was built on the island in 1714.

I'll be doing a full analysis of the Jesuit churches being built in the 1630's and 1640's for you. It doesn't mean the church or monastery it was going to was in Cuba either.
Havana could have been just a stopover point to the other provinces of New Spain.

What you now have to be eager about...is that the ship carrying this bell...perished near where you found this and most likely it was a Spanish ship.

Laura

 

[Monty]

I'm surprised someone or some country hasn't tried to claim it and take it. That seems to be the norm now days. Monty

 

[SebastianSam]

ScubaFinder, did your group find the bell on a shipwreck? When did you find the bell? It is in amazingly good shape. Has it already undergone conservation? How long was it in conservation for?

Congradulations!

Sam

 

[ScubaFinder]

Thanks for the info everyone.

Laura, I couldn't agree more about the Jesuit influence, thanks for the work you put into adding more clues for us, keep them coming!

Pete, interesting theory on the 1641 fleet...it's certainly a possibility too, and one I like a lot for obvious reasons.

All of the clues could add up to anything....sometimes when a mission was closed, the bell was sent back to the king as proof that the mission was no longer active. This could have been a mission bell cast in 1641 and returning on a ship 100 years later for all I know. A few of you seem certain this is a mission bell as opposed to a ships bell, while others seem certain it is the ships bell and not just a bell in the cargo hold when the ship went down. I keep waffling back and forth on which it is, so I'm curious to know why some of you seem so certain. I'm far from a bell expert. LOL

 

[elle]

Salvor6...it is perfect timing for the fleet of Juan de Campos that left Havana on September 13th, 1641, isn't it?
And the bell being 1639?
There were 19 merchant vessels going back also.

But what needs to be asked...is if this truly is a religious bell being transported....why would it be going back to Spain?
It wouldn't be...for Spain had their many trade makers already in Europe.
Most likely it made in Spain......money given by a donor to the Jesuit Order...their name to be part of this newly established church or settlement of the Jesuits in the New World.
My theory is that it was on its way to Havana to be transported again to its final destination.

Jas...this is not a mission bell. There is no cross over an "O".

 

[ScubaFinder]

Sam, I have to hold onto a few of the details about the bell recovery...but lets just say the bell was found on a shipwreck we are exploring, but it was not yesterday...I got permission to share the info yesterday. LOL

The only reason I speculate that the vessel was heading to Havana is because of the routes they used during this time....the incoming ships usually shot across much further south, hit the treasure and trade ports, and then many of them went to Santo Domingo, and normally stopped at either Puerto Plata or Monte Cristi to take on stores, turtles, manatees, etc. before leaving for Havana. Monte Cristi was popular for illegal trading and was in essence a small, quiet, tax free port for many years.

The chances of an inbound ship being on the north coast of Hispaniola are slim, but alot of outbound boats stopped in one or both of the ports here. I suppose it could just as easily be a coastal trader circum-navigating Hispaniola wiith plantanos and sugar, but there sure are a lot of big guns.

Again, this is all purely purely speculation, and of course I WANT the ship to be Spanish and outbound. 1639 is the age of the Atocha and Concepcion type ships at the height of the gold and silver exports from the new world. Even a small one would be nice.

 

[elle]

What is interesting is that the Society of Jesus all around the world celebrated its first centenary on the 25th of September, 1639.
This being 100 years after the founding of the Jesuit Order in 1539.

I do take back my notion about this not being a mission bell. Not all mission bells had the mission symbol I realize.
Lets just say there is a great chance it was going to a Jesuit ESTABLISHMENT at this time.

Could this have been a commerative bell signifying the first centenary of the Order?
Yes...maybe...more investigation is needed. In that case it would have been going to someone important such as a Jesuit Provincial.
So we have a few theories now to speculate on Jason.

Laura