ANTT Portuguese archives online

[Alexandre]

Speaking of the Flor de la Mar on one of the topics below, I was wondering if you were all aware that the Portuguese National Archives has almost all of it's documentation, from the 1100's till the 20th century, scanned and posted online (you just need to transcribe it... .

The internal search engine is here:

http://ttonline.dgarq.gov.pt/DServe....Cmd=Search.tcl


Here's an example of a the first page of 1512 letter from Afonso de Albuquerque to the King, stating how the Malacca affair had gone..

[goldeagle]

wow that is great research,thanks maybe we can find a wreck or 3

[Alexandre]

You can find a lot more than 3 wrecks. Trouble is, the documents are not really indexed - if you do a search by "shipwreck" you will only get 4 or 5.

So, you do have to read all those documents, and use other terms, never forgetting that they were indexed by the terms used to summarize them in the 19th century. Anyhow, surprises do appear, everyday. That is, if you do as I do: I run all the documents, one by one. But then, you really do need to transcribe them all...

Anyhow, the majority of those wrecks occured in the Indian ocean or in the China seas.

[Salvor6]

WOW! Thats fascinating Alexandre. Can you post a document with the signature of Alfonso de Albuquerque? I want to see his penmanship.

[Alexandre]

http://ttonline.dgarq.gov.pt/dserve....sqCmd=Show.tcl

click and then look at the far right.

[jeff k]

Alexandre... I suggest you get a copy of the movie "The Mission." You'll see how your Portuguese ancestors
treated the native people in Brazil. The cinema photography is excellent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mission_(film)

[Alexandre]

Jeff, by my ancestors, you mean the Portuguese Jesuits that built those missions and tried to protect the Indians from slavery, or do you mean the Brazilian and the Spanish colonists that were trying to enslave them?

Slavery is a mean thing: everybody did it.

The Arab Muslims that captured africans inland and brought them into the Magrebe.

The african rulers that went to war with other african people and them sold the captives to the Europeans stationed in the African coastline, at Mina, Ajuda and many other tiny possessions.

The Portuguese, Spanish, English, French, Danish, North-American shipowners that engajed in the most colossal people displacement that the world has ever known, bringing african slaves from Africa to the New World.

The moorish pirates that enslaved any European that they managed to lay their hands on, either by capturing them at high seas or invading Europe (the Azores, Madeira, Porto Santo, Canary, Mallorca, Ibiza, Menorca, Malta islands, and even the mainland, all the south of Portugal and Spain, and even Iceland, Ireland and Britain).

The European, by enslaving the moors that were captured at sea or while invading Europe - we even have a saying in Portugal, when you tire yourself to death with work: "I am working as much as a Moor".

Anyhow, past History is just History, you cannot judge it with your modern eyes, beliefs and moral settings. It was (still is, in some parts of the world, today) a violent life, sometimes a very brief life for the people that were our ancestors. Several centuries before the Americans bombed Tripoli, a Portuguese fleet did the same. The accounts are extraordinary: while the Barbary pirates were tying Portuguese prisoners and slaves to the muzzle of cannons, firing them afterwards from the city ramparts, in full face of the besieging fleet, the Portuguese were responding by nailing Ottoman prisioner to the masts and inserting pork bacon into their mouths...

And yes, I did see The Mission, although I rather prefer Aguirre or the Wrath of God, by Werner Herzog:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aguirre,_the_Wrath_of_God

[ivan salis]

it takes tough people to survive being enslaved *--- that they were tough enough to survive thru the slavery to one day be free again is what their proud of.

if anyone ever defends and up holds the "right of slavery" --the right of one man to own another --then they condemn themselves to slavery as well --for if you have the right to own another --someone esle has the "right" to own you as well. --- as I do not wish to be a slave myself , I have no right to own one.

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Alexandre... I suggest you get a copy of the movie "The Mission." You'll see how your Portuguese ancestors
treated the native people in Brazil. The cinema photography is excellent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mission_(film)

Jeff, what is your problem mate ! To have some one like Alexandre post here on Tnet, benefits all here !
Ossy

[Salvor6]

Ossy for once I agree with you. I am very interested to hear Alexandre's opinion.

[Oroblanco]

WOW thank you Alexandre! (And thank you to the Portuguese govt for making this possible!) You have found a GOLD MINE of information amigo, I for one am very appreciative for you bringing it to our attention!

I also have to DITTO your words Alexandre, from what I could learn, virtually every people on earth have been both slave-owners and slaves at one time or another, and we can't do a whit about what happened back then. Hollywood has found it fashionable and profitable to focus on the evils done by our ancestors, but they have not made any attempt to tell the whole story.

I still can't get over it - the whole archive, online, and no FEE? Maybe it is better we don't have a search engine keyed to every word in them, that would make it just TOO EASY! Thanks again Alexandre!
your friend in 'Dakota Territory'
Oroblanco

[Alexandre]

You know what would have been sweeter? Transcribing the whole archives and publishing it, as the Azores is doing with their documents on the Arquivo Histórico Ultramarino...

[Oroblanco]

Wow again Alexandre - I look forward to that too! Thank you again for bringing this to our attention amigo, we all owe you one!
your friend in 'Dakota Territory'
Roy ~ Oroblanco