1715 HASKINS REPORT!!!

Colombiapictures

Full Member
May 7, 2010
123
71
The literal translation of peso is weight. Like one weight is 27gr. The stamp on the coin is the certification that this piece of silver is of the standard purity and the right weight. Silver bullion was shipped by weight. The standardized weight size made the counting easy and the payment easy. Much of the Spanish silver bullion in coin form eventually found it's way to the Far East, still in the same form. <br>
This is the reason the cob coins were of irregular shape. Specially the ones made in Mexico were very irregular in shape, often rectangular. The shape had no importance, just the weight. <br>
It was the universal currency, like today it is the dollar. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dollar" target="_blank">Spanish dollar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a><br>
As currency it was practical to have smaller denominations. The denomination was 1 Real. Compare a 8 Real coin, "a piece Of Eight" with a hundred dollar bill. 8 Real = 27gr, 4Real = 13.5gr, etc. Bob Marx explains these things quite well in his books.<br>
In later times, in the USA, any piece of silver of 27gr was called a dollar. <br>
People found many ways to cheat with the silver cobs. A common way was to shave off a little of the edge of the cob. As the shape was already irregular from the beginning, no one would notice. After some time, with many people shaving off a sliver, the coins did just not have the weight anymore, so they had to be melted down and re-coined.<br>
This is why they started to make rilled edges on the coins. But there were many more ways to steal a bit of silver or gold from each coin.<br>
Shipping space was regulated. To make stowing easier, each box of the same category had to be of the same size as the other. <br>
Bullion had to be shipped as low as possible in the hold to keep the center of gravity of the ship low. Bullion also did not suffer damage if it got wet, as the galleons were always leaking. Lighter cargo and cargo that would suffer damage would be higher up in the hold. <br>
<br>
Did the size and weight of the bullion boxes (chests) change over time? Probably. Everything changes over time.
 

Last edited:

ivan salis

Gold Member
Feb 5, 2007
16,794
3,809
callahan,fl
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
1
Detector(s) used
delta 4000 / ace 250 - used BH and many others too
oh people silver coins vs gold coins were of a totally different measure and value altogether --silver coins were in Reales * whereas gold coins were in Escudo's it took a lot of Reales to equal a Escudo --

the 1737's rate of exchange was 16 reale (pure silver) for 1 gold escudo ---1 reale (pure silver reale was worth 85 copper maravidi ) however for use only in spain they ha a watered down version of the reale that was less that 50% silver called vellion --it was valued at 2 1/2 for 1 "pure" silver reale being of lower value of silver content (about 40%) these were not used abroad and were for use only in spain

at the 2 1/2 for 1 rate -- vellon silver vs pure silver reales -- it took 40 watered down Spanish reales to equal 1 gold escudo ...vs only 16 colonial pure silver reales..

every reale smuggled back home was worth 2 1/2 times as much a the local money was..

by Spanish 16 reales of pure silver coin per escudo x 8 -- thus a value of 128 silver reales per 8 escudo gold coin , boxes of gold coinage added up quickly (1) 300 gold 8 escudo coin chest would be worth 38,400 pesos in pure silver reales value or 84.000 watered down home Spanish reales
 

Last edited:

aquanut

Bronze Member
Jul 12, 2005
2,162
1,578
Sebastian, Florida
Detector(s) used
Fisher CZ21, Tesoro Tiger Shark
oh people silver coins vs gold coins were of a totally different measure and value altogether --silver coins were in Reales * whereas gold coins were in Escudo's it took a lot of Reales to equal a Escudo --

the 1737's rate of exchange was 16 reale (pure silver) for 1 gold escudo ---1 reale (pure silver reale was worth 85 copper maravidi ) however for use only in spain they ha a watered down version of the reale that was less that 50% silver called vellion --it was valued at 2 1/2 for 1 "pure" silver reale being of lower value of silver content (about 40%) these were not used abroad and were for use only in spain

at the 2 1/2 for 1 rate -- vellon silver vs pure silver reales -- it took 40 watered down Spanish reales to equal 1 gold escudo ...vs only 16 colonial pure silver reales..

every reale smuggled back home was worth 2 1/2 times as much a the local money was..

by Spanish 16 reales of pure silver coin per escudo x 8 -- thus a value of 128 silver reales per 8 escudo gold coin , boxes of gold coinage added up quickly (1) 300 gold 8 escudo coin chest would be worth 38,400 pesos in pure silver reales value or 84.000 watered down home Spanish reales

I'm gettin a headache.
 

grossmusic

Sr. Member
Jul 19, 2013
348
445
Cape Canaveral
Detector(s) used
I detect the history: I've visited archives up & down the entire US East Coast, Bahamas, Jamaica, Kew, The Hague, etc. Have yet to go to Seville or S.American archives.
Primary Interest:
Shipwrecks
I'm gettin a headache.

And now you know why I can't grasp this Spanish money stuff!

But I'm trying & everyone's help is SOOO appreciated!


Did the size and weight of the bullion boxes (chests) change over time? Probably. Everything changes over time.

One thing I propose about the box size/capacity is related to Echeverz's innovative personality. He was always trying to change things. He took over loan negotiations at the Treasure Fairs back in 1684 & lobbied to create the Panama Canal to eliminate the slow & vulnerable mule trains. He petitioned to bring shipyards to Panama in 1698 to strengthen the economy. He took over as Judge in Panama re: Lima treasury c.1709, so he swung some weight by then. Later in life he thwarted assassination attempts on his & his son's lives (could have been he was suppressing the people, but there is evidence it was the people's resistance to progressive changes he implemented). After his death his son carried on the tradition of ingenuity by building the progressive governor's palace that still stands in Guadalajara.

So maybe Echeverz changed the box sizes to improve efficiency sometime between 1684 & 1715. Maybe they had better ways to carry/roll the chests to justify the heavier weight. Dunno. Just a theory.

Now y'all have me rethinking my decision to NOT go to Spain in July. I'd love to research in Seville, but it's a lot of pesos...or euros or whatever they use now!
 

Au_Dreamers

Hero Member
Dec 15, 2010
988
668
back on the 1715!!
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Hmmm not sure why this didn't post yesterday....

Tammy, I feel for you and know how you feel deciphering these monetary issues, I've been there and am still there depending on with whom I'm talking with.

Like many things there's local speak, common speak and technical speak. Then we have as you said changes over time.

I thought peso means weight?

Picture #1 looks like silver coins to me. Maybe my color perception In the time frame of the 1715 Fleet gold was approximately 16 times greater than silver.

My understanding for this period Gold coins are Escudos. The 2 escudo was a doblon, double escudo. Now some people do call all escudos Doubloons.

I've most commonly heard silver coins as pieces of eight or reales. Ivan's correct in the old American usage. The term of 2 bits and 4 bits comes from the use of colonial Spanish reales. A 1 reale being 1/8 of an 8 reale and also termed a bit. It carried over to the use of 2 bits for a quarter and 4 bits for a half dollar.

Officially the denomination is by weight not size. So small thick coins could look like their smaller cousins...

Now don't forget to throw Cob coins into the mix!!!!! *evil grin*
 

grossmusic

Sr. Member
Jul 19, 2013
348
445
Cape Canaveral
Detector(s) used
I detect the history: I've visited archives up & down the entire US East Coast, Bahamas, Jamaica, Kew, The Hague, etc. Have yet to go to Seville or S.American archives.
Primary Interest:
Shipwrecks

Chagy

Bronze Member
Dec 20, 2005
2,226
121
Florida
Detector(s) used
JW Fishers Pulse 8X
Primary Interest:
Shipwrecks
Pesos is like saying dollars is just for you to understand the value of the cargo…For example a cargo worth 1 million pesos could be composed of a combination of silver bars, reales, escudos and emeralds, all worth 1 million pesos…
On the chests, there was no specific size or amount of coins..They can range from 2,000 coins to 7,000 per chest…

Good luck,

Chagy..
 

Chagy

Bronze Member
Dec 20, 2005
2,226
121
Florida
Detector(s) used
JW Fishers Pulse 8X
Primary Interest:
Shipwrecks
A lot of people get confused because 8 reales is a peso just like 4 quarters are a dollar...

Hope this helps!
 

Vox veritas

Bronze Member
Aug 2, 2008
1,077
268
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
The peso was a unit of account. It was never a coin.
 

grossmusic

Sr. Member
Jul 19, 2013
348
445
Cape Canaveral
Detector(s) used
I detect the history: I've visited archives up & down the entire US East Coast, Bahamas, Jamaica, Kew, The Hague, etc. Have yet to go to Seville or S.American archives.
Primary Interest:
Shipwrecks
The peso was a unit of account. It was never a coin.

I think I finally understood that somewhere along the way, but it is so appreciated to have it stated so succinctly!
 

ivan salis

Gold Member
Feb 5, 2007
16,794
3,809
callahan,fl
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
1
Detector(s) used
delta 4000 / ace 250 - used BH and many others too
oh any 1715 era coins would be cobs --non regular not round coins ... trimmed to be of proper weight ... machine "press" made "round" standard type silver coins -- were not made untill later on ...time frame wise..
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Top