Physics problem # 2 - Treasure Weight/Mass/Density

[signumops]

1)The Urca De Lima is somewhere off/to the south of the current St Lucie Inlet
2) The Nieves is near Tiger Shores...probably what Dave Jordan has.
3) Ubilla's personal ship that he bought from Escheverz in Havana is the wreck at Douglas Beach
4) Pepper Park at the old Ft. Pierce Inlet is the French prize, El Ciervo
5) Sandy Point is the Rosario, Escheverz almiranta
6) Rio Mar is the Carmen, Escheverz capitana
7) HRD's exploration site in Vero is La Holandesa (aka La Popa)
8 ) Corrigans is Ubilla's Capitana
9) Cabin Wreck is Ubilla's almiranta
10) The Conception is at Melbourne Beach-Rex Stocker's wreck
11) The San Miguel is up near Nassua Sound
Tom

Very interesting!! BTW, Brevard County Engineer told Higgs that the largest indian mound in the county (at the time included part of current area known as Spanish Harbour/Ambersand Beach Access area) was in front of what we now call Cannon Wreck area, and Higgs stated that it also had a tabby floor ... hmmm. The mound stuck far out into the sea at the time but has been washed away since. You can see it in those photos Higgs took of the Cabin wreck timbers with his wife in the foreground. Could that be one of your salvage camp HQ's ?

 

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[mad4wrecks]

I don't think it is any coincidence that the mound you mention is (almost) due east of Barker's Bluff on the west shore of the lagoon.

The area of Spanish Harbor actually includes part of s27 (cabin) and s23 (anchor, roberts, cannon)
Very intersting mix of artifacts off Ambersand!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good Morning: If we wish to get extremely technical, then we must include the water temp. and salinity at that time to our flotation factors. I agree that it wouldn't have much bearing on free gold or Iron etc., but the others?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Goldminer]

billinstuart,
This is not meant to be argumentative, but I believe most of the sailing vessels of that time period were in ballast. In the early 1960’s, I started to dive on the 1733 fleet, as well as several other wreck sites from the Miami area south thru the Keys. When I first visited these wrecks, the ballast piles were mostly intact. What follows is a listing of the 1733 wrecks that I saw early on.
El Populo Los Tres Puentes Almiranta
El Aviso Herrera San Francisco
El Infante San Pedro and others
El Capitana El Lerri
Chavez San Fernando
All had extensive ballast piles, and all were part of a treasure fleet.

 

[GOHO]

It really dosn't matter if gold is heavier the iron they both sink the same..... The cannons were tied down very well so they stayed mostly with the upper structure, the gold was in luggage and sacks and tucked away in many places so it floated with the upperstructure too but some probably floated even farther away.... the only treasure that sank right away was the 122 tons of silver in the bottom of the ship....

 

[itmaiden]

I had read that anthropologists identified both Indian and European skeletons at the Higgs site, buried just 3 feet down. This fit in well with another historical story of some Europeans the Indians were going to kill which inhabited an area further North than the Hobe Sound area. Apparently, each clan along that coast had it's own "rules", and some were even cannabalistic.

itmaiden

Very interesting!! BTW, Brevard County Engineer told Higgs that the largest indian mound in the county (at the time included part of current area known as Spanish Harbour/Ambersand Beach Access area) was in front of what we now call Cannon Wreck area, and Higgs stated that it also had a tabby floor ... hmmm. The mound stuck far out into the sea at the time but has been washed away since. You can see it in those photos Higgs took of the Cabin wreck timbers with his wife in the foreground. Could that be one of your salvage camp HQ's ?

 

[billinstuart]

Goldminer..no problem. I worked in Savannah for years, and all of the riverfront is constructed of ballast that was removed from sailing ships that were picking up cotton.

The 1715 fleet had been gathering treasure for..what...10-15 years, pending the end of the ____? war. I'm speculating those ships were worm ridden, barnacle encrusted, and heavily overloaded, and discharged much of their ballast to compensate. They probably had a hard time keeping them afloat. The 1733 fleet may not have had the same problems.

Just postulating...thoughts?

 

[FISHEYE]

The cannabalistic indians didnt eat the spaniards,they were too greasy.

 

[Salvor6]

Fisheye, yes they did eat the spaniards. Thats why all the indians died. They were poisioned!

 

[billinstuart]

Why don't cannibals eat clowns






The taste "funny".

 

[signumops]

The BR135 site, shown in current photography below was at least 30 feet tall in early 1900's and had a clay floor 2 inches thick on its top. Between 1940 and 1949, the midden was reduced by half, owing in part to the tide outfall from the newly recovered Sebastian Inlet project (it was primarily closed during the war). Higgs, Rouse, Hale and others thought it was a possible Spanish settlement, but, I think, more likely that this was an established post for a lookout during the 1715-16 salvage. It was the highest point around, and would take the breeze, keeping the mosquitos away. The same breezeway effect held true for the McClarty salvage camp area... if you've ever been to Mosquito Lagoon in the summer, you can begin to imagine the torment back in those days prior to mosquito control. There is a substantial house on the location now, with a seawall. The erosion continues.



Here is the same area in 1943. Note the propeller scar leading to the point in the middle of the Spanish Harbor. Shallow here.



While rummaging around, I remembered this pic of Jeanne Durrand and her ballast pile. She took all the ballast from this wreck, and brought them ashore. These came from the E104 Johnson/Brandon area, just north of the Urca de Lima reservation. Substantial ballast. Is this one of the missing fleet?



Another mystery to me is why Jennings only deposed himself for the raid at the McClarty camp. What was going on with the other wrecks? No salvage camps? Or, had they already been worked? Or, were they saved for the following summer in 1716?

 

[ropesfish]

Another good one!