New pictures of the Nuestra Senora de la Concepcion

[Dr. Gaetan Algoet]

Hello there,

Sorry but due to a lot of discussion about copyrights I will post no pictures anymore.
For me science is the most important and the aim of research is to share all new kind of found information.
This drawing is certainly more than 50 years old and was found by alexander Korganov.

Dr. Gaëtan Algoet
marine-archaeologist

 

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[PyrateJim]

Those are some fantastic drawings. Thanks for sharing them both here and on your web site.

 

[Saturna]

Dr. G,

Nice picture, but I am curious as to how you have the copyright to it.

Mariner

If it's an old engraving it might be public domain.


... just don't tell Spain he's using it.

 

[delaford321]

Man these are amazing! Thank you for sharing! How did you come across them?

 

[Galleon Hunter]

So if there is no name on something I find in the archives I can just put my name on it?

I don't really think so...there are some wonderful old engraving by Theodore de Bry that can be found in the archives and his living descendants retain ownership of that material today.

Just because something is old you can't necessarily assume it is public domain. We all know what can happen if you ASSUME something, could end up making as A*@ out of yourself or worse. I would think the good doctor should be a little more careful before stamping his name on something he doesn't own.

Probably a lesson we all could learn.

GH

 

[Panfilo]

Very interesting pictures and site Dr. Gaetan, a renouned world expert on the Nuestra Senora de la Limpia y Pura Concepcion, author of several important books on this subject, congratulations. A Belgian/Dutch marine archeologist expert in French wrecks off Santo Domingo (Hispaniola) is somebody that must have some amazing stories to tell… The pictures do appear to be very descriptive of the Concepcion and are not easy to find, did you find them in the AGI archives in Sevilla or are they from the Archivo General de la Nacion in Santo Domingo? It is very refreshing to have an experienced archeologist post his work here in TN, it is a practice that is certainly most welcome and I hope many more of your colleagues follow your example. In these new times any responsible person that wants to work or be involved with underwater wrecks must have an experienced archeologist at his side and learn to respect the integrity of this valuable cultural resource. Are you in any way related to the recent work being performed on the Concepcion Dr. Gaetan?
Panfilo

 

[Panfilo]

I think it pertinent to clarify some legal aspects brought up here regarding the copyright laws and Dr. Gaetan’s posting:
1) As Dr. Gaetan does not live in the U.S., neither he nor his work is covered by US laws (title 17,U.S. Code) and lets remember that there is no such thing as “international copyright”. His work is regulated by the laws of Belgium or Santo Domingo or wherever he is domiciled.
2) We don’t know if Dr. Gaetan own the rights to the documents or if he has inherited these or it they have been willed to him, thereby being in total right to copyright these.
3) “Whenever a work of fine art is sold or otherwise transferred by or on behalf of the artist who created it, or his heirs or personal representatives, the right of reproduction thereof is reserved to the grantor until it passes into the public domain by act or operation of law unless such right is sooner expressly transferred by an instrument, note or memorandum in writing signed by the owner of the rights conveyed or his duly authorized agent. (Section 224, Article 12-E, 1966 New York General Business Law)”

 

[Panfilo]

Mariner:
It was my impression, after reading his initial post, that Dr. Gaetan had and has acted in perfect good faith, that he has posted some fine pictures of some drawings of the Concepcion and the trademark issue is of little or no relevance (if it ever existed) unless somebody is planning on buying these from him in order to publish them which is not the case. He has not offered them for sale nor is there any business inferred from his post. Dr. Gaetan has a solid reputation as a renowned marine archaeologist and I think that he should be welcome to this forum as his experiences can enrich our knowledge of this so very interesting subject that has gathered us all here.

I remember Mariner some two or perhaps three years ago, an archival researcher appeared out of nowhere and he was offering for a modest US$10,000 to $20,000 some very valuable copies of shipwreck documents that he had “found in the Simancas archives” and I was very close to being caught in his scheme, it just sounded too good to be true. Some, perhaps more experienced researchers then me, were taken and they lost some important sums of money. We all know that there are such people in this business so we must all beware.

On the other hand, there are very fine and knowledgeable experts like Dr. Gaetan that we should invite to share their projects and ideas in a forum that is, as this one, very heterogeneous, of many different backgrounds and whose main idea is to exchange our views. I think that if we give this kind of welcome to such individuals we will be the losers as we all know very well that marine archeologists have their own forums and very few if any feel comfortable conversing with us. Maybe things will start to change, maybe we can learn more from them and maybe they will come to the realization that it is people like us that are in the frontlines and who have first hand knowledge of most new finds, that if we were to work together instead of fighting each chance we get …things would be so much more different.

Regarding the copyright subject I recommend this site: http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#what and I hope that Dr. Gaetan will feel comfortable posting his questions or projects with us here at TN.
Panfilo

 

[Vox veritas]

Hi Panfilo and Jeff,
according to which attached, I have the copyright of my book Galeones con tesoros?
I appreciate the answer.
Cheers VV

 

[Trond]

Interesting thread. I bet Dr Gaetan feel very welcome here.

 

[Darren in NC]

Mariner, I watched this thread from day 1, and I looked for a copyright symbol after your first post and never saw one. My guess is that you saw the @ symbol in his email and "saw" the copyright symbol in conjunction with his name in the email. While I certainly know you know the difference, it happens sometimes.

I do think it sad to have put him on the defensive when he was simply trying to offer an exciting topic in good faith. I would invite all to PM when dealing with questions that could come across as accusatory.

 

[mariner]

Darren,

You are a friend whose opinion I greatly respect, and therefore I have to assume that I misread the caption on the original picture.

I therefore unreservedly withdraw any adverse comments I may have made, offer Dr. G. my unreserved apologies, and ask him to forgive me and resume his posts on this forum. I will also delete the posts I made earlier on this thread

Of course, the original comment that I made, which I quote below, was not hostile in any way, shape or form, and a simple correction would have done the trick.

Mariner

Dr. G,

Nice picture, but I am curious as to how you have the copyright to it.

Mariner

 

[Darren in NC]

You've always been a great voice of reason on Tnet, mariner. Your passion for the subject is understandable given that you have been burned in the past over this very issue. I respect your courteous response, and hope Dr. G will read it and share more.