New Spain Flota

[comfortably numb]

Ok, ok. I know most people on here search the east coast, The water is clear, wrecks are abundant. But has anyone compiled a list of the ships that left Vera Cruz and never made it to Havana? Remember the gold and silver did not come from havana it came from mexico. And the ships that did not complete the voyage are somewhere here in the gulf of mexico, wether it be in deep water or somewhere along the coast. I'm just courious if any of you reasearchers out there have come across any of these accounts?

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[aquanut]

Jeff, There is some documentation, however most of the wrecks on the Gulf Coast of Florida had no survivors and few witnesses.
Aquanut

[comfortably numb]

John, My friend. I know we have discussed this, and most wrecks on the gulf coast have very little documentation. But a ship coming from Vera cruz laden with treasure and did not make it to Havana, there should be some records somewhere? I'm not looking for locations just a general idea of how many ships may have been lost during this voyage over the years. If anyone has that kind of information?
Jeff
P.S. You need to get your but over here as soon as you can dive. We got some stuff to check out.

[itmaiden]

Do a book search on Google. You may find some accounts in historical writings.

itmaiden

Ok, ok. I know most people on here search the east coast, The water is clear, wrecks are abundant. But has anyone compiled a list of the ships that left Vera Cruz and never made it to Havana? Remember the gold and silver did not come from havana it came from mexico. And the ships that did not complete the voyage are somewhere here in the gulf of mexico, wether it be in deep water or somewhere along the coast. I'm just courious if any of you reasearchers out there have come across any of these accounts?

[Mackaydon]

Then there are those wrecks that never left Vera Cruz port and surrounding waters.
The rings where the treasure galleons tied up to are still there to be seen at the fort.
Don.....

[ivan salis]

several small patache type vessels of UBILLA's 1715 fleet sank there (vera cruz , mexico) due to a storm before they even left the treasure loading port .

[FISHEYE]

If anyone decides to do any diving in the gulf i suggest you invest in a hazmat dive suit and many gasmasks and alot of filters and alot of degreaser!

[Salvor6]

So far, so good in the Gulf. The loop current is gonna take the oil right to FISHEYE's harbor.

[FISHEYE]

From what i hear,they are gonna put booms across all the inlets.So if you have a boat that can hop over booms,then you can still go out in the ocean.

Dam,nasa just launched some kind of a rocket,it went south.The building im in shook like it was a mild earthquake,plus all the other buildings around here were rattling.Im about 5 miles i guess from that launch pad.Im here at MacBlasters warehouse working on his treasure boat.

[godisnum1]

I used to hear rumors of a 1715 fleet wrecked on the West coast of Florida in the vicinity of the Sunshine Skyway. Any Truth? Dell

I'm listening...

A man from church said he found a reale in ankle deep water on the south side of the Skyway some years back. Of course, the Spanish were in that area anyway...

Bran <><

[comfortably numb]

Some very good responses so far Lets keep digging back through those memories and see what else comes up, Could make for some very interesting reading.

[comfortably numb]

John,
At the cookout we were talking about the pile of football rocks your friend found, I plotted a course in the direction you said using the speed of my boat as travel time and it puts me on a foul area. Do you remember what type of boat your friend had? That might give me a better idea of the speed he was traveling. I plan on getting out to this area in the next week or two and do a visual.
Jeff

[ivan salis]

pensacola , florida was set up to be a way stop and protective base against various enemys & pirates that raided the fleets in the gulf of mexico area -- and panhandle , west coast of florida area .

we know so much more about east coast of florida wrecks , because of st augustine s record keeping and havanas record keeping * -- plus the fact there as a rule were "surviivors" from mant of the east coast wrecks

the east coast AIS indains were rough no doubt in many cases on shipwreck survivors ofyen turning them into slaves -- but the west coast indains simply would kill and in some cases EAT ship wreck survivors --thus leaving no one to tale the tale of where , when and how they "wrecked" -- no spanish survivors left alive to tell means no "written" historical record --thus one has to look to other methods of finding spanish treasure wrecks on the west coast -- since the spanish treasure vessels used "dead reckoning" (sailing close to land and using known land marks and rivers marked on sea charts to plot their "location") which was their main means of navigation up till the mid 1700 era -- and with the strong and sudden storms that can spring up rapidly in the gulf ( not even talking about the hurricanes)--with out a doubt I am quite sure there are several treasure wrecks on the west coast of florida * just based on the numbers of treasure vessels that sailed the area and the risk factors they faced --- finding one could be tough but it would be a "fresh wreck" thus well worth the effort most likely *

(PLEASE FORGIVE THE "ALL" CAPS -- BUT YES I AM "SCREAMING")

IF ONE CAN PRY A HONEST TO GOD "SALVAGE PERMIT" FROM THE STATE OF FLORIDA THAT IS , NOT A EXPLORATION PERMIT . OR A "GO LOOK" PERMIT --BUT A ACTUAL --HAUL UP AND SELL STUFF PERMIT.

THE LACK OF ACTUAL "SALVAGE" PERMITS BEING ISSUED BY THE STATE OF FLORIDA TO ME IS THE GREATEST ISSUE TODAY TREASURE HUNTERS FACE -- BECAUSE YOU CAN FIND WRECKS ALL DAY LONG * BUT WITHOUT THE "HARVEST" PERMITS WHAT GOOD IS FINDING THEM --IF YOU CAN NOT "LEGALLY" TOUCH THEM?

NOT ALLOWING FOLKS TO CONDUCT LEGAL "BUSINESS" --IS "RESTRAINT OF TRADE" AND IS ILLEGAL -- THE FISHER AGREEMENT STATES THAT THE STATE WAS COURT ORDERED TO SET UP A PERMITTING PROCESS TO "ALLOW" FUTURE TREASURE HUNTERS TO OBTAIN PERMITS -- NOT TO SET IT UP TO "BLOCK" ACCESS TO WRECKS AS THE STATE HAS --THE STATE OF FLORIDA GENERAL RECORD IS CLEAR IN THIS MATTER (THEY DO NOT WANT TO ISSUE PERMITS) -- ONLY A MERE HANDFUL OF "NEW PERMITS" IN GENERAL HAVE BEEN ISSUED OVER THE YEARS AND BEGRUDGINGLY AT THAT.

[aquanut]

John,
At the cookout we were talking about the pile of football rocks your friend found, I plotted a course in the direction you said using the speed of my boat as travel time and it puts me on a foul area. Do you remember what type of boat your friend had? That might give me a better idea of the speed he was traveling. I plan on getting out to this area in the next week or two and do a visual.
Jeff

Jeff,
PM me your email and I'll give you my best guess.
John

[comfortably numb]

Ivan,
Thankyou for your wise input, And I agree that without alot of documentation the wrecks will be hard to find. And dealing with the state will be even harder So should we let this stop us from trying? I think not. And who knows maybe one of us over here will get lucky and find one outside of state waters.

[ivan salis]

outside the 3 mile state waters limit would be ideal -- no state of florida permitting process to deal with. -- oh yes by all means --let the treasure hunt carry on, never let the forces of "big brother" kill off your dreams.

[comfortably numb]

John,
At the cookout we were talking about the pile of football rocks your friend found, I plotted a course in the direction you said using the speed of my boat as travel time and it puts me on a foul area. Do you remember what type of boat your friend had? That might give me a better idea of the speed he was traveling. I plan on getting out to this area in the next week or two and do a visual.
Jeff

Jeff,
PM me your email and I'll give you my best guess.
John

John,
I got your info and that is real close to the area I plotted. I think were in the ballpark, now just have to find the football

[aquanut]

Jeff,
The "football" is correct.
Ivan, The state claims a nine mile limit on the gulf side.
Aquanut

[comfortably numb]

Correct nine miles on the gulf side, But we have Many,Many more miles of shallow water beyond that.

[aquanut]

Of course, after the nine mile limit then we get to confront Spain with their ridiculis claims. Best to keep everything low key...