Permits & Leases

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itmaiden

itmaiden

Hero Member
Sep 28, 2005
575
7
Re: Permits & Leases

So I have never seen Brazilian Pepper Trees on the coast, so where are these precious endangered plants ? I like to cook with peppers, and would have eaten them right there had I found them !

itmaiden




Dell Winders said:
Years ago when I applied for a permit to drill twelve 2" holes, 20 feet deep, the state quickly put up an 8 foot chain link fence, with barb wire on top, to protect the Brazilian pepper trees?

Needless to say, it cost $11,000 and a year of waiting to be refused a permit because I was a Treasure Hunter. Dell
 

OP
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itmaiden

itmaiden

Hero Member
Sep 28, 2005
575
7
Re: Permits & Leases

Well look at this ! The Brazilian Pepper Trees are considered a "pest" an invasive species to Florida and represent a sensitivity danger to people. Florida should have paid you to burn those trees, and to destroy the roots while you were drilling your holes.

http://plants.ifas.ufl.edu/node/405

>It is an aggressive invader of disturbed habitats; this characteristic has led to its placement on the Florida Exotic Pest Plant Council’s list of invasive species. Many plant communities such as hammocks, pinelands and mangrove forests are often invaded and dominated by Brazilian pepper tree. <

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/aa219

Go throw that back in their faces Dell !

itmaiden





Dell Winders said:
Years ago when I applied for a permit to drill twelve 2" holes, 20 feet deep, the state quickly put up an 8 foot chain link fence, with barb wire on top, to protect the Brazilian pepper trees?

Needless to say, it cost $11,000 and a year of waiting to be refused a permit because I was a Treasure Hunter. Dell
 

OP
OP
itmaiden

itmaiden

Hero Member
Sep 28, 2005
575
7
Re: Permits & Leases

So what was wrong with "treasure hunting" on a vacant lot ? Apparently, they thought they were going to miss out on something. The holes you were drilling were no different than taking geological samples.

Would love to know what county pulled this one ?

itmaiden





Dell Winders said:
The only thing I know for sure is that we spent $11,000 retaining a State recognized engineering firm, an archaeologist, and waited 11 months expecting an approval. I did everything by their book of rules, and they denied the permit on the basis that, I was Treasure Hunting. :dontknow: I'm now broke & Poor. Dell
 

sphillips

Bronze Member
Jan 4, 2008
1,046
1,114
Western NC
Detector(s) used
Equinox 800
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Re: Permits & Leases

itmaiden, they are all over the Florida Keys!



itmaiden said:
So I have never seen Brazilian Pepper Trees on the coast, so where are these precious endangered plants ? I like to cook with peppers, and would have eaten them right there had I found them !

itmaiden




Dell Winders said:
Years ago when I applied for a permit to drill twelve 2" holes, 20 feet deep, the state quickly put up an 8 foot chain link fence, with barb wire on top, to protect the Brazilian pepper trees?

Needless to say, it cost $11,000 and a year of waiting to be refused a permit because I was a Treasure Hunter. Dell
 

Salvor6

Silver Member
Feb 5, 2005
3,754
2,167
Port Richey, Florida
Detector(s) used
Aquapulse, J.W. Fisher Proton 3, Pulse Star II, Detector Pro Headhunter, AK-47
Primary Interest:
Shipwrecks
Re: Permits & Leases

Who is "they?" Who is the state archaeologist that keeps denying permits? Lets name names. There are only two of them that approve permits. Roger Smith and Ryan Wheeler: http://dhr.dos.state.fl.us/contact/people.cfm. Look it up!

Get rid of them and permits will be issued!
 

mad4wrecks

Bronze Member
Dec 20, 2004
2,263
107
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Re: Permits & Leases

Get rid of them and permits will be issued!

Those are appointed positions unfortunately.
 

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itmaiden

itmaiden

Hero Member
Sep 28, 2005
575
7
Re: Permits & Leases

Many people think the government is immune from lawsuits in all matters, but that is not the case. One of the things that people are learning to look at in their cases, are the oaths of office that many must take for a position. You also have to look for laws in the state's Administrative Code, not just in the Statutes. And then again, there are some areas where state law cannot supercede Federal in such a way to be oppressive or burdensome to ones rights, nor may they be discriminatory. Florida relies also on their "state constitution" which last time I looked at it-violated some areas of the Federal Constitution, so that is always up for a challenge.

Remember, in this day and age and lack of values in our government, laws can be interpreted, reinterpreted, and changed in a moment's flash for whatever agenda the controlling party (the government) wants. I've seen government entities stall cases out while they worked on changing the law to get out of liability in a case, and they try to use the new law change. (Florida is guilty of this)
That is illegal. Your case must be brought on the laws that were in place at the time of the alleged violation. Unfortunately, law libraries throw out and replace the law books of prior years. Sometimes the libraries will have older law books, and attorneys too. Any law digging etc you can do on your own or provide proof of will save you time and money.

itmaiden



billinstuart said:
Can you sue the state? Isn't there some kind of "immunity from prosecution" for the gubment?
 

Voldbjerg

Full Member
Feb 9, 2006
142
0
Re: Permits & Leases

Salvor6 said:
... There are only two of them that approve permits. Roger Smith and Ryan Wheeler....

I thought the problem was that no permits where approved :wink:
 

mariner

Hero Member
Apr 4, 2005
877
18
Re: Permits & Leases

ITM

You'll need deep pockets if you want to sue a State.

Mariner
 

aquanut

Bronze Member
Jul 12, 2005
2,162
1,578
Sebastian, Florida
Detector(s) used
Fisher CZ21, Tesoro Tiger Shark
Re: Permits & Leases

Voldberg,
They approve them for non-profit educational, historical archaeological institutions, not treasure hunters.
Aquanut
 

comfortably numb

Full Member
Mar 31, 2010
248
78
Crystal River, Florida
Detector(s) used
Bounty Hunter QD II,
MPX,fisher 1280x
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Re: Permits & Leases

Dell Winders said:
comfortably numb said:
Dell,
Keep digging through that bookshelf! Your coming up with some good stuff. ;D

I don't have any time for reading. I'm desperately trying to get back into the water, and that's been time consuming. Dell

I understand Dell, And I wish you all the luck.
 

Holiday

Jr. Member
Jan 20, 2008
20
0
Re: Permits & Leases

I agree with 'salvor6'! People...the state doesn't seem to give a shit! Tommy Gore worked for the state of Florida for 40 years, starting in the 50's... He was on "every" treasure hunt and dove "ALL" major treasure finds off of Florida! He was a 'state field agent'.
Florida barks about the importance of "archaeology"...but Florida would not even give Tommy their underwater camera when he dove the "San Jose" wreck 30 years ago...so he took his own. He was livid! A few years ago they demanded TG turn over HIS film. Hypocrites! He refused!

We [Fla. TH's] need to unite and expose Florida's 'cream' Historical society... as a group who's main objective is to terminate any further historical knowledge of Florida's history, by denying our "bringing to the surface" ..artifacts, that we can share!

Contact me and I will share this with the local "uninformed" historical society.
 

Vox veritas

Bronze Member
Aug 2, 2008
1,077
268
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Re: Permits & Leases

Hi all folks,
very, very interesting subject. I personally know all the "shameful" history of SEA HUNT JUNO-GALGA, then in 2002-2003 I participated in the management agreement between SEA HUNT and Ministry of Culture of Spain (the agreement was signed in June 2003).
I warn you, behind this issue, well hidden in a thick curtain of smoke, people in the vicinity of TH favored and approved the decision of the Supreme Court in 2000. They are wolves disguised as sheep!
Now the main reason for the JUNO-GALGA issue was that they were ships of the Spanish Navy, and Spain claimed sovereignty immunity. Honestly I do not remember any important other arguments (but the memory may fail). The question is: can be applied to vessels that were not of the Spanish Navy shipwrecks in Florida? It is important to qualify this question.
Undoubtedly, in this matter of the shipwrecks, treasure galleons in Florida (and other countries) there is a clear abuse of discretion of administration.
These and other details will be known rough step by step.
Cheers VV
 

capt dom

Hero Member
Nov 9, 2006
995
282
Jupiter, Florida USA
Re: Permits & Leases

In our Great Land... the body of law is only as good as anyone's ability to enforce
it. A government agency has all the tax payer's pockets to reach into and their own
cronies in Attorney General's office using the guise of protecting the "public trust" and
"administrative code" to confound any attempt for private enterprise logic to prevail.

What the cattle (taxpayers) neglect or realize is we no-longer have a free market economy
or system. The world's largest employers are U.S. Federal, Regional, State and Municipal
governments and or service organizations. If you look at the median income and associated
benefits of the employees of these organizations it is about 25% higher than their counter-parts
in the private or free market sector.

Folks.... that is socialism! To some it is fascism. At one point some called it state capitalism.
But make no mistake - the rats are guarding the cheese. Any true student of history can tell
you. Over time only the technology changes - people and their bad habits remain the same:

Nature does have a way of washing away the works of man however.
Here is a quote from Plato:

...with you and other peoples again and again life has only recently been enriched with letters
and all the other necessaries of civilization when once more, after the usual period of years,
the torrents of heaven sweep down like a pestilence leaving only the rude and unlettered among you.
And so you start again like children, knowing nothing of what existed in ancient times,
here or in your own country.
 

Kut2TheChase

Full Member
Jun 27, 2007
139
1
NJ
Detector(s) used
Excalibur 1000 NATO - Explorer SE
Re: Permits & Leases

Idea -What the TH community needs is an attorney, a law firm. Maybe a community funded program where some money is siphoned off all finds, income and pooled- a shared burden to benfit all.
Of course my finds would not help at all since I dont find anything really but have a fulltime job and could donate as maybe others would.
hmm, donating to treasure hunters, seems almost ironic.
Stupid idea?
 

capt dom

Hero Member
Nov 9, 2006
995
282
Jupiter, Florida USA
Re: Permits & Leases

Its not a stupid idea. It is just a very expensive idea.

The other problem is the basic ego that goes along
with the treasure hunter mentality. Like spoiled children
and adolescents, clicks form rather than a strong
interest groups or PAC s. For a while, a few banded together
for a time and retained the services of an administrative
law attorney... some pressure was put on certain over zealous
administrators and some of the "smoke and mirrors started to
get blown away. The group kind of, got their way...
for a while.... They began to feel like "good old boys" thinking
a new "golden or silver" age was going to be upon them.

The lawyer stopped getting paid. Pressure stopped being
put on the over zealous folks - who keep getting paid, in any event
and they just wait for any opportunity any of us private
sector guys to allow them, to stick the knife in and turn it a
little....
But now some are going to say, even in my camp:

"You talk too much...." What I say
to them is,

"Do you know what the china man said?"

What is good is this topic has gotten 766 views and over 37 comments
in a short time span. There are attorneys who follow this blog. Its going to take
a committed "junk yard dog type" to actually ever do something about
this genuine abuse of authority. Just remember, the opposition has everyone's pockets
to reach into.
But we can prevail... Its just going to take a little more than just the Queen's Jewels.....
We need a King maker...
 

eborac

Jr. Member
Jan 15, 2005
61
23
North Queensland, Australia
Primary Interest:
Shipwrecks
Re: Permits & Leases

You guys are lucky. I Australia you need a permit just to dream about getting a permit. There's no point in searching because you'd end up in Jail just for thinking about it.
 

Holiday

Jr. Member
Jan 20, 2008
20
0
Re: Permits & Leases

At this time...they couldn't care less! They believe all salvagers are "looters"! But maybe you're on to something. Ask the State what it would take to secure a "salvage" lease.

There are dozens who will jump through their hoops!
 

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